Signings, Cuts, Trades

[QtR Nevermore]

I know this will put me on the opposite side from most Ravens fans and probably the team too, but I'm not too excited about the prospect of Zay Flowers getting a long term deal.

He's the best WR we've had since Mason, maybe ever, but if you look at WR 2nd contracts, they have a much higher than average chance of looking like bad moves a year or two down the line, outside of the superstars and, for me, Zay isn't quite at that level.

I also don't think a small receiver with average hands whose game is based on being quick and shifty will necessarily age that well. I'd rather do the 5th year option with the possibility of the tag if he's still playing well.

Big guys tend to age better than little ones and I'd generally prefer to spend on the lines (and real superstars like Kyle).

 

[gtalk12]

I know this will put me on the opposite side from most Ravens fans and probably the team too, but I'm not too excited about the prospect of Zay Flowers getting a long term deal.

He's the best WR we've had since Mason, maybe ever, but if you look at WR 2nd contracts, they have a much higher than average chance of looking like bad moves a year or two down the line, outside of the superstars and, for me, Zay isn't quite at that level.

I also don't think a small receiver with average hands whose game is based on being quick and shifty will necessarily age that well. I'd rather do the 5th year option with the possibility of the tag if he's still playing well.

Big guys tend to age better than little ones and I'd generally prefer to spend on the lines (and real superstars like Kyle).

How easy would it be to replace a receiver when you currently need another receiver?

 

[QtR Nevermore]

How easy would it be to replace a receiver when you currently need another receiver?

There are always plenty in the draft so, in theory, it shouldn't be too hard. I know we struggle to pick them but that's a scouting/GM problem rather than something that should affect contract decisions.

Maybe that will change with Harbaugh gone maybe the #1 priority doesn't always have to be finding a fast guy to clear a safety out for the run game.

 

[RavensMania]

He was cut so they wouldn't lose anything

didn't realize he was cut.

 

[gtalk12]

There are always plenty in the draft so, in theory, it shouldn't be too hard. I know we struggle to pick them but that's a scouting/GM problem rather than something that should affect contract decisions.

Maybe that will change with Harbaugh gone maybe the #1 priority doesn't always have to be finding a fast guy to clear a safety out for the run game.

I don't feel all that confident that letting Zay walk that we will draft a guy who can come in and do what he's done.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I know this will put me on the opposite side from most Ravens fans and probably the team too, but I'm not too excited about the prospect of Zay Flowers getting a long term deal.

He's the best WR we've had since Mason, maybe ever, but if you look at WR 2nd contracts, they have a much higher than average chance of looking like bad moves a year or two down the line, outside of the superstars and, for me, Zay isn't quite at that level.

I also don't think a small receiver with average hands whose game is based on being quick and shifty will necessarily age that well. I'd rather do the 5th year option with the possibility of the tag if he's still playing well.

Big guys tend to age better than little ones and I'd generally prefer to spend on the lines (and real superstars like Kyle).

I think Flowers path is more aligned with Linderbaum's, which is that he's not a blank check guy. I have no doubt we'll be making competitive offers, but if he and his agent are thinking about being in the top 5 of the market, it'll be from somebody else most likely.

 

[Deebo813]

I don't feel all that confident that letting Zay walk that we will draft a guy who can come in and do what he's done.

We not letting him walk unless we got someone else on the roster for sure. He for sure getting 30+!.. he got a big family so wouldnt be surprised if he went to the highest bidder or highest gtd

 

[Deebo813]

I think Flowers path is more aligned with Linderbaum's, which is that he's not a blank check guy. I have no doubt we'll be making competitive offers, but if he and his agent are thinking about being in the top 5 of the market, it'll be from somebody else most likely.

All he need is 33 a year and he top 5.. jsn gets 42. Garret wilson, dk and aj brown all get 32! Its very possible for him to get top 5 money

 

[Simba]

All he need is 33 a year and he top 5.. jsn gets 42. Garret wilson, dk and aj brown all get 32! Its very possible for him to get top 5 money

JSN is also highly inflated because they left the 2 years remaining and essentially made it a 6 year, $195M deal, which is $32.5M a year.

 

[Deebo813]

JSN is also highly inflated because they left the 2 years remaining and essentially made it a 6 year, $195M deal, which is $32.5M a year.

Makes sense! Total contract 168 lol. Got dam

 

[Simba]

Makes sense! Total contract 168 lol. Got dam

Definitely agent fluffed in how that was presented, but he's right in line with most other guys. If it was really that 4 year, $168M they would have scrubbed this year especially. Instead they just used that as a mechanism to keep the base salary low and spread that bonus hit out as much as possible.

 

[JO_75]

Look John, you can have Reader but you have to trade us Dexter first. Harbaugh I feel like is out for revenge lol, trying snag players from us.

 

[ravenslord]

Look John, you can have Reader but you have to trade us Dexter first. Harbaugh I feel like is out for revenge lol, trying snag players from us

He absolutely is and has his brother helping him too.

 

[rmcjacket23]

All he need is 33 a year and he top 5.. jsn gets 42. Garret wilson, dk and aj brown all get 32! Its very possible for him to get top 5 money

That's back end top 5, and that's before others, who don't have deals yet, sign. You will certainly see an extension for Nacua this year, and possibly Pickens as well. Both will come in over those numbers. The floor of the top 5 market can easily go to 35-36 million in next few months.

Like anything else, it'll come down to guaranteed $. $90M gtd is the range he'll be looking to be in, with a minimum of probably $60-65M gtd at signing. Those are gigantic numbers for a WR. If they want to create some monopoly $ on the back end like others have done to get him to an AAV that looks great, that's fine, but any smart agent is going to focus on the guarantees.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Makes sense! Total contract 168 lol. Got dam

Definitely agent fluffed in how that was presented, but he's right in line with most other guys. If it was really that 4 year, $168M they would have scrubbed this year especially. Instead they just used that as a mechanism to keep the base salary low and spread that bonus hit out as much as possible.

I mean yes and no. The "new $" is all that really matters, and that was reported accurately. It's $168M in new $. The fact that it was an extension and they can roll it in with the current deal is just good cap management. Been the criticism of EDC for a few years now. Didn't get Lamar done until the last possible minute (heading that way for deal #2). Stanley's deals (plural) were done late. Linderbaum ended up leaving because of it. Some of that's outside of his control, but perennial contenders like the Eagles just magically always seem to sign players early to big $ deals. And they turn a 4-5 year extension into a 6-7 year cap spread, which is why they always have $ to spend.

 

[Simba]

I mean yes and no. The "new $" is all that really matters, and that was reported accurately. It's $168M in new $. The fact that it was an extension and they can roll it in with the current deal is just good cap management. Been the criticism of EDC for a few years now. Didn't get Lamar done until the last possible minute (heading that way for deal #2). Stanley's deals (plural) were done late. Linderbaum ended up leaving because of it. Some of that's outside of his control, but perennial contenders like the Eagles just magically always seem to sign players early to big $ deals. And they turn a 4-5 year extension into a 6-7 year cap spread, which is why they always have $ to spend.

To some extent yes. That's not the level of deal JSN is getting from the Seahawks if he was approaching FA though. He only got that new money because they rolled it in with the last year of his deal and the assumed 5th year option. APY would be very different if they didn't.

Agents are still going to fight for that for their guys of course, but it is heavily fluffed.

 

[rmcjacket23]

To some extent yes. That's not the level of deal JSN is getting from the Seahawks if he was approaching FA though. He only got that new money because they rolled it in with the last year of his deal and the assumed 5th year option. APY would be very different if they didn't.

Agents are still going to fight for that for their guys of course, but it is heavily fluffed.

I mean as a FA, I think his APY is same or higher. Players of his caliber pretty much never make it to FA at the position he plays.
As nice as the APY looks, his gtd $ at signing still lags a ton behind Jefferson and is behind Chase, and is more in-line with what Lamb got in '24.

From a % gtd perspective, which is critical, his deal is more in-line with DJ Moore. Guys like Jefferson and AJ Brown did a shit ton better.

 

[Simba]

I mean as a FA, I think his APY is same or higher. Players of his caliber pretty much never make it to FA at the position he plays.
As nice as the APY looks, his gtd $ at signing still lags a ton behind Jefferson and is behind Chase, and is more in-line with what Lamb got in '24.

From a % gtd perspective, which is critical, his deal is more in-line with DJ Moore. Guys like Jefferson and AJ Brown did a shit ton better.

That's kind of what I'm alluding to. If he was inching toward FA and the Seahawks gave him a contract before he got there, I'd very highly doubt it was what he just signed. JSN and his agent both know that number is inflated. That's why it was reported as it was. They know the reality of what they agreed to.

 

[QtR Nevermore]

I don't feel all that confident that letting Zay walk that we will draft a guy who can come in and do what he's done.

I don't either really (but, as I said, that's a GM problem) but nor do I feel confident that he'll be able to do it for years to come at a level that justifies a high price tag.

I like Zay. I don't want to sound like I don't but his key skill is his ability to separate quickly and that fits really well with a QB who doesn't like to throw to WRs if he doesn't see that they're open. but will that twitchiness survive through age and injury?

A big contract is banking a lot on that one thing that makes Zay special because, if that goes, there's nothing else for Zay to really rely on. He doesn't really have size, strength, particularly good hands, or YAC ability, or run blocking. His route running isn't special outwith that twitchiness either.

 

[Deebo813]

I don't either really (but, as I said, that's a GM problem) but nor do I feel confident that he'll be able to do it for years to come at a level that justifies a high price tag.

I like Zay. I don't want to sound like I don't but his key skill is his ability to separate quickly and that fits really well with a QB who doesn't like to throw to WRs if he doesn't see that they're open. but will that twitchiness survive through age and injury?

A big contract is banking a lot on that one thing that makes Zay special because, if that goes, there's nothing else for Zay to really rely on. He doesn't really have size, strength, particularly good hands, or YAC ability, or run blocking. His route running isn't special outwith that twitchiness either.

I agree with everything besides the yac part.. i feel like he is great at getting yac.