The Random Thought Thread

[BloodRaven]

I would tend to agree with the last two notions the way that it looks. I don't see either of the two TE's we brought in as anywhere near ready year one. Unless we bring in a vet I would see us using Ricard as TE three and moving more to a 2 TE on the regular.

I definitely wanted to see us pick up a vet, TE seems to have a high failure rate and its rare to see a rookie contribute immediately.

 

[rossihunter2]

I would tend to agree with the last two notions the way that it looks. I don't see either of the two TE's we brought in as anywhere near ready year one. Unless we bring in a vet I would see us using Ricard as TE three and moving more to a 2 TE on the regular.

from the comments harbs has already made i think there's no way we dont at least have a 3rd designated TE on the roster be that Breeland or Wolfe or Scarff (who they apparently liked last year)

if they can schematically take on hurst's blocking responsibilities and catch the ball as the 3rd TE then that's all we need year 1 out of one of those guys

but i do think we're going to see lots of 22 still and maybe some more 11 and 12 personnel than we used last year which will get more WRs on the field more specifically

we drafted lots of slots and the majority of our WR corps can work out of the slot - Hurst wasn't going to get a lot of snaps - and maybe we even see someone like Duvernay take some of the Hurst lead blocking responsibilities coming across the LoS a bit like Willie Snead took on at times

 

[cdp]

@Sami84 Unless you've seen Michael Jordan live in his prime (Late 80's to early 90s, you would clearly understand how wrong it is not to make him #1. I've had the privilege to see him play live and i've seen both Kobe and LeBron live in their primes as well. So I'm here to tell you watching those 3 play live was a treat but only one person was so mesmerizing that you couldn't take your eyes off of him. Michael Jordan. While LeBron is one of the best forwards to play the game and Kobe is the second best SG to also play the game, neither of these two come close to MJ. He was just magical to watch him demolish opponents. As for Magic and Bird, I'm simply going to rely on what those guys and their peers have said time and again. MJ is the greatest basketball player of all time. Not up for debate. Larry Bird is a top 10 player certainly but surely not the greatest to ever play.

Now veering off course here a little bit. The only other athlete that has MJ like qualities of watchability without taking your eyes off of him in recent memory is Lamar Jackson. I know I've been screaming about this for a long time, but my thinking will be borne out in the next 5-7 yrs time. LJ will be universally regarded as one of the best athletes in the world.

I wish I would've witnessed the greatness of MJ. But my father recored a lot of games, and I can see why you keep saying this. LJ and MJ have that burning ambition to win it all. Something extremely rare.

 

[Sami84]

Michael Jordan was a psychopathic dude but hey it worked out for him
I do think though he had a rather easy finals situation
Would he have beaten the mid 80's celtics or showtime lakers or the mid 00's san antonio spurs in 6 finals?
Highly doubt it

he didn't face any ''wow'' teams IMO. the 90's had a lot of stars but ever so few super teams.

 

[cobrajet]

are we talking about the greatest or BEST. Greatest is MJ, no doubt...
but the best are the following ( im doing 1980- now)

1: Larry Bird ( 1984-1987 larry bird was the perfect player, don't let his lack of athletic ability fool you, his D was solid and he had no weakness, 90% free throw shooter, 42% 3pt shooter, 53 FG% 11 boards, 2 steals 6.8 assists and 1.2 blocks per game) His defensive win shares are AHEAD of lebron

2 Lebron ( If he could shoot the 3 at 36 % upwards and Free throws at 78% Upwards he'd be the GOAT no questions asked but his shooting has let him down)

3:Tim Duncan ( the most boring but effective player ever)

4: MJ ( didn't beat anyone of note in the 90's, weaker collective teams compared to the 80's, he is the GREATEST player ever though( as it pertains to legacy and the best SG ever) but I don't think he's sniffing 6 rings in the 90's if he had prime 80's celtics, showtime lakers and bad Boy pistons in their prime during this period, maybe 1 or 3 MAX)

5: Magic
6: Hakeem Olajuowan
7: Karl Malone
8: KAJ
9: Shaq
10: Moses Malone
11: Kobe Bryant
12: Stephen Curry
13: Dirk Nowitzki -( He made dallas a top 3 team in the best western conference era EVER with far less talent around him than other elite teams)
14: Kevin Durant ( his championships will always have that caveat to me)
15a: Dwayne Wade ( at his peak I'd have him right there with kobe but it was a very short peak)
15b Grant Hill ( yes, he was that good in his peak)
- Kawai Leonard
16: Isaiah Thomas
17: Gary Payton
18: John Stockton
19: Steve Nash
Bill Walton ( taking into account his 1976-1978 years)
20: Jason Kidd
21:George Gervin
22:Kevin Garnett
23: Charles Barkley
24: Julius Erving
25: Kevin McHale
26: David Robinson
27: Patrick Ewing
Giannis
28: Clyde Drexler
29: Allen Iverson
30: Paul Pierce
31: Reggie Miller
32: Scottie Pippen
33: Sidney Moncrief
34: Tracy McGrady ( overrated and inefficient during his glory years at orlando, average to below average shooter)
35: Patrick Ewing
36: Dwight Howard
37: Yao Ming
- James Harden
38: Anthony Davis
- Dominique Wilkins
39: Ray Allen
-Carmelo Anthony
40: Alex English
41: Adrien Dantley
42: Manu Ginobili
43: Chris Webber
- Bob lanier
44: Alonzo Mourning
- Chris Bosh
45: Tony Parker
- Chris Paul
46: Klay Thompson
- Artis Gilmore
- Chris Mullen
- Pau Gasol
47: Robert Parish
- Penny Hardaway ( a little overrated even pre injury)
-Bernard King
48: Vince Carter
- Damien Lillard
49: Peja Stoiakovic
- Adryvious Sabonis
-L' Marcus Aldridge
50: Ben Wallace
51: Denis Rodman
- Larry Johnson
52: Bill Laimbeer
53: Chanucey Billups
54: Amare Stoudamire
- Blake Griffin
- Shawn Kemp
-Joe Dumars
-Andrew Toney
55: Rasheed Wallace
- Elton Brand
56: Shawn Marion
- Marc Gasol
57: Mitch Ritchmond
- Zach Randolph
- Ron Artest
58: Draymond Green
-Marques Johnson
- Terry Cummings
-Alvin Robertson
-Rolando Blackman
60: Tim Hardaway
61: Vlade Divac
62: Dragan Petrovic
63: Mark Aguirre
-Antonio McDyss
64: Reggie Lewis
- Andre Iguadola
-De'Maar Derozan
-Toni Kukoc
65: Vinnie Johnson
66: Kiki Vanderewe ( spelling)
- Serge Ibaka
-Steve Smith
67:Latrell Spreewell
- Horace Grant
68 Charles Oakley
-Jack Sikma
69: Mark Eaton
70: Ralph Sampson
71: Dikembe Mutombo
-Jeff Malone
72: Glenn Robinson
- Tyson Chandler
- Allan Houston
-Šarūnas Marčiulionis
- Jamal Crawford
-D'Andre Jordan
-Theo Ratliff
- Jason Terry
73: Ricky Pierce
-Vince Baker
74: Terry Porter
75: Kenyon Martin
76: Marcus Camby
- Buck Williams
- Lou Williams
77: Richard Jefferson
78: Michael Redd
-Maurice Cheeks
-Caron Butler
-Derek Harper
79: Fat Lever
-Brook Lopez
80: Denis Johnson
81: Kevin Johnson
Mahmoud Abdul Rauf
- Norm Nixon
82: Tom Chambers
- Bill Cartwright
-Michael Finley
Reggie Theus
83: Dan Marlje
84: Michael Cooper
85: AC Green
Sharif Abdur Rahim
86: John Starkes
-Steve Francis
87: Rudy Gay
88: Danny Granger
89: Jalen Rose
- Stephon Marbury
90: Juwan Howard
91: Nick Van Excel
-Jeff Hornecec
-Kurt Rambis
92: Damon Stoudomire
93: Denis Scott

@RavensMania

the difference between the players clustered together is practically non-existent but the further up you go you see a certain tier of players develop

Come on now, you can't put one Baltimore player on that list? You go back and fit Wes Unseld, Elvin Hayes, or Earl Monroe somewhere on that list, that's an order young man!

 

[Sami84]

Come on now, you can't put one Baltimore player on that list? You go back and fit Wes Unseld, Elvin Hayes, or Earl Monroe somewhere on that list, that's an order young man!

I limited it to players who played from 1980 onwards

Those guys would be in my top 50 for sure, with wilt, russell, west etc

 

[cobrajet]

I limited it to players who played from 1980 onwards

Those guys would be in my top 50 for sure, with wilt, russell, west etc

Then I must demand that you put the man who fought Bruce Lee in a Game of Death inside the top five!

 

[Ellicottraven]

I wish I would've witnessed the greatness of MJ. But my father recored a lot of games, and I can see why you keep saying this. LJ and MJ have that burning ambition to win it all. Something extremely rare.

You nailed it. And the talent to go alongside that burning desire. When you have both then you're pretty unstoppable when you constantly try to improve your game. It make take a few years but eventually LJ will get there. I don't talk about MJ and LJ's personalities being similar. Totally different. They lead in different ways, they're different styles, different generations, etc. but at the core of it, they both strive to improve every facet of their game, they work extremely hard and they are both supremely gifted.

 

[Sami84]

@cobrajet :O wes unseld just passed away..and we were just talking about him a few hours ago

RIP

 

[Deebo813]

are we talking about the greatest or BEST. Greatest is MJ, no doubt...
but the best are the following ( im doing 1980- now)

1: Larry Bird ( 1984-1987 larry bird was the perfect player, don't let his lack of athletic ability fool you, his D was solid and he had no weakness, 90% free throw shooter, 42% 3pt shooter, 53 FG% 11 boards, 2 steals 6.8 assists and 1.2 blocks per game) His defensive win shares are AHEAD of lebron

2 Lebron ( If he could shoot the 3 at 36 % upwards and Free throws at 78% Upwards he'd be the GOAT no questions asked but his shooting has let him down)

3:Tim Duncan ( the most boring but effective player ever)

4: MJ ( didn't beat anyone of note in the 90's, weaker collective teams compared to the 80's, he is the GREATEST player ever though( as it pertains to legacy and the best SG ever) but I don't think he's sniffing 6 rings in the 90's if he had prime 80's celtics, showtime lakers and bad Boy pistons in their prime during this period, maybe 1 or 3 MAX)

5: Magic
6: Hakeem Olajuowan
7: Karl Malone
8: KAJ
9: Shaq
10: Moses Malone
11: Kobe Bryant
12: Stephen Curry
13: Dirk Nowitzki -( He made dallas a top 3 team in the best western conference era EVER with far less talent around him than other elite teams)
14: Kevin Durant ( his championships will always have that caveat to me)
15a: Dwayne Wade ( at his peak I'd have him right there with kobe but it was a very short peak)
15b Grant Hill ( yes, he was that good in his peak)
- Kawai Leonard
16: Isaiah Thomas
17: Gary Payton
18: John Stockton
19: Steve Nash
Bill Walton ( taking into account his 1976-1978 years)
20: Jason Kidd
21:George Gervin
22:Kevin Garnett
23: Charles Barkley
24: Julius Erving
25: Kevin McHale
26: David Robinson
27: Patrick Ewing
Giannis
28: Clyde Drexler
29: Allen Iverson
30: Paul Pierce
31: Reggie Miller
32: Scottie Pippen
33: Sidney Moncrief
34: Tracy McGrady ( overrated and inefficient during his glory years at orlando, average to below average shooter)
35: Patrick Ewing
36: Dwight Howard
37: Yao Ming
- James Harden
38: Anthony Davis
- Dominique Wilkins
39: Ray Allen
-Carmelo Anthony
40: Alex English
41: Adrien Dantley
42: Manu Ginobili
43: Chris Webber
- Bob lanier
44: Alonzo Mourning
- Chris Bosh
45: Tony Parker
- Chris Paul
46: Klay Thompson
- Artis Gilmore
- Chris Mullen
- Pau Gasol
47: Robert Parish
- Penny Hardaway ( a little overrated even pre injury)
-Bernard King
48: Vince Carter
- Damien Lillard
49: Peja Stoiakovic
- Adryvious Sabonis
-L' Marcus Aldridge
50: Ben Wallace
51: Denis Rodman
- Larry Johnson
52: Bill Laimbeer
53: Chanucey Billups
54: Amare Stoudamire
- Blake Griffin
- Shawn Kemp
-Joe Dumars
-Andrew Toney
55: Rasheed Wallace
- Elton Brand
56: Shawn Marion
- Marc Gasol
57: Mitch Ritchmond
- Zach Randolph
- Ron Artest
58: Draymond Green
-Marques Johnson
- Terry Cummings
-Alvin Robertson
-Rolando Blackman
60: Tim Hardaway
61: Vlade Divac
62: Dragan Petrovic
63: Mark Aguirre
-Antonio McDyss
64: Reggie Lewis
- Andre Iguadola
-De'Maar Derozan
-Toni Kukoc
65: Vinnie Johnson
66: Kiki Vanderewe ( spelling)
- Serge Ibaka
-Steve Smith
67:Latrell Spreewell
- Horace Grant
68 Charles Oakley
-Jack Sikma
69: Mark Eaton
70: Ralph Sampson
71: Dikembe Mutombo
-Jeff Malone
72: Glenn Robinson
- Tyson Chandler
- Allan Houston
-Šarūnas Marčiulionis
- Jamal Crawford
-D'Andre Jordan
-Theo Ratliff
- Jason Terry
73: Ricky Pierce
-Vince Baker
74: Terry Porter
75: Kenyon Martin
76: Marcus Camby
- Buck Williams
- Lou Williams
77: Richard Jefferson
78: Michael Redd
-Maurice Cheeks
-Caron Butler
-Derek Harper
79: Fat Lever
-Brook Lopez
80: Denis Johnson
81: Kevin Johnson
Mahmoud Abdul Rauf
- Norm Nixon
82: Tom Chambers
- Bill Cartwright
-Michael Finley
Reggie Theus
83: Dan Marlje
84: Michael Cooper
85: AC Green
Sharif Abdur Rahim
86: John Starkes
-Steve Francis
87: Rudy Gay
88: Danny Granger
89: Jalen Rose
- Stephon Marbury
90: Juwan Howard
91: Nick Van Excel
-Jeff Hornecec
-Kurt Rambis
92: Damon Stoudomire
93: Denis Scott

@RavensMania

the difference between the players clustered together is practically non-existent but the further up you go you see a certain tier of players develop

Bruh yo list 1000% wrong. You kobe at 11 and curry at 12.. this is a list of players you like the most lol. If you talking about “ best” and not goat. Meaning skill for skill, maximizing basketball knowledge and game then its no way you shouldnt have kobe,jordan, bird/dream in your top 3... i love skill/finesse players. Even in football i love it. You have bron 3, a guy that uses speed and power, doesnt have any ball handling moves, needs pick and roles to get open and doesnt play good off ball offense unless its a alley hoop.. dont get me wrong, i think he can possibly be the goat but as for as being the best, never.. i also would put kawhi ahead ahead of dirk..

Now that i really look at your list, i have no idea what you consider “ best” as to be.. im thinking youre talking about skill.. my bad if i got it mixed up

 

[Deebo813]

Theres a good argument that Larry Bird is the most skilled player ever, he just wasnt a good athlete. Ambidextrous too, you couldnt force him away from his dominant side.

Kobe and hakeem are probably the most skilled. Larry up there too

 

[Deebo813]

Michael Jordan was a psychopathic dude but hey it worked out for him
I do think though he had a rather easy finals situation
Would he have beaten the mid 80's celtics or showtime lakers or the mid 00's san antonio spurs in 6 finals?
Highly doubt it

he didn't face any ''wow'' teams IMO. the 90's had a lot of stars but ever so few super teams.

I watched jordan late in his career yet like everythjng else ive done in life, i do research on everything. He didnt face any “ wow” teams in finals because like the west of the 2000s, the east was deep. He beat them all in the playoffs for the most part.

 

[Sami84]

I watched jordan late in his career yet like everythjng else ive done in life, i do research on everything. He didnt face any “ wow” teams in finals because like the west of the 2000s, the east was deep. He beat them all in the playoffs for the most part.

Yes I know but would it be fair to say that the NBA in the 90's didn't have any ''super teams'' to compete with the Bulls?
was there a team in the East that was comparable to those teams i mentioned ie 80's celtics, showtime lakers, detroit mid/late 80's or San Antonio in the mid 00's?

 

[Sami84]

Bruh yo list 1000% wrong.

100% wrong eh? then tell me what I got wrong with each selection?

 

[Sami84]

Kobe and hakeem are probably the most skilled. Larry up there too

I had a hard time not putting hakeem in the top 5 but Magic edges it

 

[Sami84]

btw @Deebo813 there is hardly any difference between the players grouped together here only once you through 20 at a time you notice a leap in talent. So even if there are a few guys you've had over the other i'd not disagree with you. they are all similar standards ( in the groupings) etc
the top 30 and then there is a slight drop off till 60 and then a slight drop offs.

all really good players

 

[Deebo813]

I had a hard time not putting hakeem in the top 5 but Magic edges it

I see what your list consist of now. Its actually pretty decent.

 

[Deebo813]

btw @Deebo813 there is hardly any difference between the players grouped together here only once you through 20 at a time you notice a leap in talent. So even if there are a few guys you've had over the other i'd not disagree with you. they are all similar standards ( in the groupings) etc
the top 30 and then there is a slight drop off till 60 and then a slight drop offs.

all really good players

Yea i just replied as u sent this.. its not as bad as i thought. Its pretty decent.

 

[Sami84]

any of these players on their day? they could outplay one or another ( from 1- 70)

A lot of circumstances, what if Ginobili had his own team? The eye test tells me he could have done what harden does now but with better D ( he's even a better flopper than harden which is nearly impossible to be).

taking into acount the thousands and thousdands of players who have played in the NBA. All these guys could fucking have a day vs each other, it's only when you go into the top 20 you get the players who had that extra gear

 

[Sami84]

I have some names i forgot to put in my list from 70-80 . Rip Hamilton, Luis Scola, Tony Allen, Shane Battier, Tayshaun prince, Stephen Jackson, Kyle Korver, etc