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The Random Thought Thread

DJ's list literally can include DL - it says pass rushers not edge rushers (and that is a specific choice) and with regards to the eagles they may have built safeties into their roster building over time but the season they were actually a good team and a threat to the NFL and won a superbowl their marquee moves were these:

extend zach ertz
sign backup qb Nick Foles
sign WR Alshon Jeffrey
sign WR Torrey Smith
sign CB Patrick Robinson
acquire pass rushing DL Timmy Jernigan
draft Pass rusher Derek Barnett
trade for CB Ronald Darby
trade for RB Jay Ajayi

those offseason acquisitions are what turned their year into a successful one to add to stout OL, franchise qb, couple of defensive playmakers and interior pass rushers and the playmaking tight end corps
That was the immediate offseason. We are nowhere near enough position to compare. They, in prior offseasons, have clearly had a strong philosophy of bolstering the trenches FIRST. They let guys like Maclin and Desean Jackson go, as well as Shady McCoy. They never let Fletcher Cox leave. They never let Jason Peters leave. They never let Kelce leave. They acquired Brandon Brooks. Drafted Lane Johnson high. It was a long process to get the Eagles to where they were. Not to mention they spent a lot of money on Malcolm Jenkins and McLeod well before they attempted to build the rest of the secondary. Those were the immediate moves, we lack the foundation they did. And notice how all but three of the pieces you just mentioned were skill position players(those three being Foles, Barnett, and Jernigan).

You know why I am using the Eagles? Because they're an example of the long game done right. They're suffering a SB hangover this year but they have legit dynasty potential.

We have Lamar. For QB, check. He's not quite as refined as Wentz was coming out, but he's come a long way which is encouraging.

Eagles already had a good oline. We don't. We have three good olinemen, but a pathetic C and a bad situation at LG. And one of those players could retire any day now. So we don't have that. Eagles invested first in the trenches before going for WR.

We drafted two TEs to build a playmaking TE corps and honestly, even in limited action both of them have had their moments. This is meant to mimic Ertz and Burton, and now Ertz and Goedert.

We don't need to go acquire corners. We have three young good ones. We did this differently than the Eagles. But The eagles have paid Jenkins and McLeod a lot more than they have paid any of their CBs, because frankly finding good corners is a lot easier.

We have dline talent, but still need to bolster the trenches(Sorry @RavensMania that Jernigan trade looks worse and worse every day). We don't have a Fletcher Cox type to gunk stuff up. We don't have a Brandon Graham type(yet, Tim williams could still be a high quality pass rusher). We need to bolster that first.

We don't have a Jeffery. But I'd take John Brown or Snead over Torrey and call it a wash with Agholor. I agree that a "real #1" would be beneficial, but if you've been following the Eagles closely the best option in that passing attack has been Ertz. We clearly have a similar idea in drafting Andrews and Hurst.

So that puts us at

QB check
Good corners(which are essential in today's game)
But not good safeties when Weddle leaves, which are ultimately the more important positions in the secondary.
2 quality offensive linemen since we have to assume Yanda is going to retire either this year or the next
Solid, but not sexy WR corps
A defensive line that isn't a liability but isn't as good as it could/should be.

Football at the end of the day is a team sport, and even if it doesn't look like it right now, it is more likely than not that defenses will adjust. The NFL's history has been cyclical with regards to this. Building the trenches, on both sides of the ball, needs to be the top priority.

DJ does have a valid way to build a team but every super bowl team(barring a few exceptions, namely those teams with overwhelmingly dominant defenses) has always had the following three things and it will never change.

1. Franchise QB. We have a good option moving forward with Jackson who has already made strides.
2. Strong play in the trenches. This is our big issue right now. Not the skill position players. Our corners and WRs are fine. They could be better, but this will win you a super bowl long before playmakers will. We have Stanley and Brown, who are looking like they are going to be an excellent duo moving forward.
3. An identity. Our identity under Lamar is going to be obvious if he develops to his potential. A run heavy team who uses that to open up a passing attack. Add in a strong defense with that and that's a super bowl team.


DJ and I have a disagreement. Big plays will come if you give a QB a real offensive line(which we haven't had since Kubiak) so long as you have competent playmakers. If your front seven can mitigate the run and effectively rush the passer, the defense should be good enough.... So long as you have safeties who can prevent the big play.

If I were to build a team I would go(in order of importance)

QB
Solid Cohesive Oline/ Good front seven
2 good safeties
#1 option on the offense(could be a running back, could be a WR, could be a TE. A QB needs a top weapon)
2 good corners
Solid remaining skill position players on the offensive side of the ball.

I don't think we focus solely on offense like you're suggesting. Frankly, that'd be foolish and would put us at where we've been for the past 5 years except we'd be neglecting defense. Our priority needs to be building the trenches on both sides before anything else, and replacing Weddle, and it's not really arguable. In an ideal world we could acquire a stud WR, but this draft really doesn't have one. A few nice options, but this draft is good for trenches. We need to take advantage of that, on both sides.
 
It’s a shame Elliott ended his season, we really needed to see what we had there. We gotta address safety this offseason now.

If we don’t make the playoffs then deionte Thompson is in our range, barring a big rise. I’m also hoping for a Jerry Tillery if we can’t land Thompson, I think Tillery is a certified future nfl stud and I don’t buy for one second that edge rush is a bigger problem than interior rush. If we can’t land either, trade back as much as you goddamn can because we either need to address a lot of holes, or make up for holes with one superstar talent, if we aren’t landing a sure superstar with our first then move back.

Trade all the way back to the 2nd I don’t care, we need picks. If we move back to the late 20s and can land a Damien Harris, Mack Wilson, good. If not, try to move back further and then go hard on the OL and try to grab Benny snell later
 
That was the immediate offseason. We are nowhere near enough position to compare. They, in prior offseasons, have clearly had a strong philosophy of bolstering the trenches FIRST. They let guys like Maclin and Desean Jackson go, as well as Shady McCoy. They never let Fletcher Cox leave. They never let Jason Peters leave. They never let Kelce leave. They acquired Brandon Brooks. Drafted Lane Johnson high. It was a long process to get the Eagles to where they were. Not to mention they spent a lot of money on Malcolm Jenkins and McLeod well before they attempted to build the rest of the secondary. Those were the immediate moves, we lack the foundation they did. And notice how all but three of the pieces you just mentioned were skill position players(those three being Foles, Barnett, and Jernigan).

You know why I am using the Eagles? Because they're an example of the long game done right. They're suffering a SB hangover this year but they have legit dynasty potential.

We have Lamar. For QB, check. He's not quite as refined as Wentz was coming out, but he's come a long way which is encouraging.

Eagles already had a good oline. We don't. We have three good olinemen, but a pathetic C and a bad situation at LG. And one of those players could retire any day now. So we don't have that. Eagles invested first in the trenches before going for WR.

We drafted two TEs to build a playmaking TE corps and honestly, even in limited action both of them have had their moments. This is meant to mimic Ertz and Burton, and now Ertz and Goedert.

We don't need to go acquire corners. We have three young good ones. We did this differently than the Eagles. But The eagles have paid Jenkins and McLeod a lot more than they have paid any of their CBs, because frankly finding good corners is a lot easier.

We have dline talent, but still need to bolster the trenches(Sorry @RavensMania that Jernigan trade looks worse and worse every day). We don't have a Fletcher Cox type to gunk stuff up. We don't have a Brandon Graham type(yet, Tim williams could still be a high quality pass rusher). We need to bolster that first.

We don't have a Jeffery. But I'd take John Brown or Snead over Torrey and call it a wash with Agholor. I agree that a "real #1" would be beneficial, but if you've been following the Eagles closely the best option in that passing attack has been Ertz. We clearly have a similar idea in drafting Andrews and Hurst.

So that puts us at

QB check
Good corners(which are essential in today's game)
But not good safeties when Weddle leaves, which are ultimately the more important positions in the secondary.
2 quality offensive linemen since we have to assume Yanda is going to retire either this year or the next
Solid, but not sexy WR corps
A defensive line that isn't a liability but isn't as good as it could/should be.

Football at the end of the day is a team sport, and even if it doesn't look like it right now, it is more likely than not that defenses will adjust. The NFL's history has been cyclical with regards to this. Building the trenches, on both sides of the ball, needs to be the top priority.

DJ does have a valid way to build a team but every super bowl team(barring a few exceptions, namely those teams with overwhelmingly dominant defenses) has always had the following three things and it will never change.

1. Franchise QB. We have a good option moving forward with Jackson who has already made strides.
2. Strong play in the trenches. This is our big issue right now. Not the skill position players. Our corners and WRs are fine. They could be better, but this will win you a super bowl long before playmakers will. We have Stanley and Brown, who are looking like they are going to be an excellent duo moving forward.
3. An identity. Our identity under Lamar is going to be obvious if he develops to his potential. A run heavy team who uses that to open up a passing attack. Add in a strong defense with that and that's a super bowl team.


DJ and I have a disagreement. Big plays will come if you give a QB a real offensive line(which we haven't had since Kubiak) so long as you have competent playmakers. If your front seven can mitigate the run and effectively rush the passer, the defense should be good enough.... So long as you have safeties who can prevent the big play.

If I were to build a team I would go(in order of importance)

QB
Solid Cohesive Oline/ Good front seven
2 good safeties
#1 option on the offense(could be a running back, could be a WR, could be a TE. A QB needs a top weapon)
2 good corners
Solid remaining skill position players on the offensive side of the ball.

I don't think we focus solely on offense like you're suggesting. Frankly, that'd be foolish and would put us at where we've been for the past 5 years except we'd be neglecting defense. Our priority needs to be building the trenches on both sides before anything else, and replacing Weddle, and it's not really arguable. In an ideal world we could acquire a stud WR, but this draft really doesn't have one. A few nice options, but this draft is good for trenches. We need to take advantage of that, on both sides.

but the eagles are a terrible example of the long-game done right - they literally swapped their GM in and out of the organisation which destroyed organisational continuity

they've really only been building with a specific direction since Howie Roseman returned as GM of the eagles and malcolm jenkins was a chip kelly tenure signing iirc

and you're arguing against DJ weirdly
entrenched within his checklist is an emphasis on the trenches - you need at least 3 quality OL and 2 pass rushers... that's 5 of your 9/10 trench players at least within his checklist
 
It’s a shame Elliott ended his season, we really needed to see what we had there. We gotta address safety this offseason now.

If we don’t make the playoffs then deionte Thompson is in our range, barring a big rise. I’m also hoping for a Jerry Tillery if we can’t land Thompson, I think Tillery is a certified future nfl stud and I don’t buy for one second that edge rush is a bigger problem than interior rush. If we can’t land either, trade back as much as you goddamn can because we either need to address a lot of holes, or make up for holes with one superstar talent, if we aren’t landing a sure superstar with our first then move back.

Trade all the way back to the 2nd I don’t care, we need picks. If we move back to the late 20s and can land a Damien Harris, Mack Wilson, good. If not, try to move back further and then go hard on the OL and try to grab Benny snell later

my initial impression is that im gonna be happy if we trade way far down in this draft to accumulate more day 2 picks where possible
 
my initial impression is that im gonna be happy if we trade way far down in this draft to accumulate more day 2 picks where possible
That’s how I feel every year lol. So far I think day 2 is great for us. If we’re looking for defense, there is still guys like Lukas denis, Darnell savage, Terry beckner, Oshane ximines, Shaquille quarterman, and more. Then there’s a shitload of OL as well
 
That’s how I feel every year lol. So far I think day 2 is great for us. If we’re looking for defense, there is still guys like Lukas denis, Darnell savage, Terry beckner, Oshane ximines, Shaquille quarterman, and more. Then there’s a shitload of OL as well
With how our 2nd round picks have been panning out....im not sure that its all that great for us tbh.
 
my initial impression is that im gonna be happy if we trade way far down in this draft to accumulate more day 2 picks where possible

That’s how I feel every year lol. So far I think day 2 is great for us. If we’re looking for defense, there is still guys like Lukas denis, Darnell savage, Terry beckner, Oshane ximines, Shaquille quarterman, and more. Then there’s a shitload of OL as well

Don't want to do that if there's a guy to take with our 1st. Too many hit and misses lately.
 
Don't want to do that if there's a guy to take with our 1st. Too many hit and misses lately.

of course as always its pretty relative and depends on the board, depends on the class, depends on who's there when we're on the board

im just saying that strategically given our lack of a 2nd rounder it would seem like a good way to recoup draft value
 
but the eagles are a terrible example of the long-game done right - they literally swapped their GM in and out of the organisation which destroyed organisational continuity

they've really only been building with a specific direction since Howie Roseman returned as GM of the eagles and malcolm jenkins was a chip kelly tenure signing iirc

and you're arguing against DJ weirdly
entrenched within his checklist is an emphasis on the trenches - you need at least 3 quality OL and 2 pass rushers... that's 5 of your 9/10 trench players at least within his checklist
And they still won a ring. So they're not a terrible example. And they swapped him out one year, and they got rid of the problem so I don't see how it's a bad example. Chip Kelly was a crap coach and an even worse GM at the pro level. And Roseman STILL remained with the organization so it's not like his influence was totally ignored.

Malcolm Jenkins was signed on the cheap with Kelly. Heavy extension with Roseman. My argument still stands. Safeties are important to this process too. Not as much as trenches.

But trenches are far more important for the foundation of the team. That's my point. Ignoring the defense entirely this offseason would be asinine and my point still stands. You don't need to litter the team with these fantastic playmakers, you just need guys who are good enough. The Eagles had a good, but not fantastic(like the Chiefs, Steelers, Falcons, Saints, etc) supporting cast, but their trenches won the day for them. Because they had insane amounts of depth on the defensive side of the ball, and every single starter on the Eagles oline was a quality one. Sure, another WR #1 can be added for us, but that shouldn't be the foucs, but I'd say the playmakers on offense are fine. They haven't been the problem this year overall. Defense lacks a quality interior pass rusher(which is really all the front 7 needs if we retain Mosley) and we need a younger safety, of which there are a plethora on the free agent market and I suspect we go after one.

DJ's way is valid, it's not the only way to build a team. And that's my point. Eagles did it a lot differently overall.

The NFL is ever-changing but the one constant is that trenches will win the day. DJ's method isn't as trench heavy as it should be. 3 quality olinemen is what we had this year, and yet we still couldn't run the ball for shit since the other two players were fucking awful, and the third quality starter is only starting due to an injury to Harbaugh's favorite player. The defense for the Eagles was dangerous for being able to get to the QB, but our front seven is inconsistent as all hell despite being super blitz happy. The playmakers are FINE. They could be better, but moving forward it could be so much worse. It's a group that fits Lamar pretty well. I'm not worried and it's why I am not convinced going all offense like so many are suggesting is the right move.
 
I'm not that eager to try and pay John Brown. Would rather pay more for a top WR if available in FA/trade. Pissed me off pulling out of that end zone catch vs Raiders.
The beginning of the year he was electric but he’s been essentially shut down the past several weeks. He’d be good on a relatively cheap/average contract but nothing more.
 
The NFL is ever-changing but the one constant is that trenches will win the day. DJ's method isn't as trench heavy as it should be. 3 quality olinemen is what we had this year, and yet we still couldn't run the ball for shit since the other two players were fucking awful, and the third quality starter is only starting due to an injury to Harbaugh's favorite player. The defense for the Eagles was dangerous for being able to get to the QB, but our front seven is inconsistent as all hell despite being super blitz happy. The playmakers are FINE. They could be better, but moving forward it could be so much worse. It's a group that fits Lamar pretty well. I'm not worried and it's why I am not convinced going all offense like so many are suggesting is the right move.

except since we've had 3 quality OL in the lineup this OL has been functional - and its been functional despite an injury to the LT... so that would suggest 3 is a good minimum number... and i did say in the initial post that someone made a nice correction that i agree with - that you shouldnt and cant have the 2 non-quality OL in that situation start next to each other - and that's what the ravens have at LG and C
 
The beginning of the year he was electric but he’s been essentially shut down the past several weeks. He’d be good on a relatively cheap/average contract but nothing more.

he'd be one of the best number 2 receivers in the league - the problem is we dont have a number 1 who's drawing double coverage - in stead after those initial weeks the defences worked out that john brown was the biggest threat not michael crabtree and so they moved the double teams and safety help towards brown's side

now he's still making plays (and would have had another bomb reception to add to his big plays all year vs the raiders if it wasnt called back on a hold) but obviously he's going to be less consistent - but he could have had 4 catches for 90 yards this week if he'd caught a couple that he dropped and didnt have the bomb called back

i agree in terms of value though - but if he does go we are going to have to find some speed again at receiver unless we truly think jordan lasley is going to develop (and he might but there are absolutely zero guarantees and signs) and even then we probably need more speed anyway

we have to go and get a young playmaking wide receiver i think as a matter of urgency this offseason - maybe john brown gets re-signed but even then im not sure that's enough

our longest contracted wr who's not a rookie is michael crabtree who's old and probably wont see the end of that contract tbh
 
The beginning of the year he was electric but he’s been essentially shut down the past several weeks. He’d be good on a relatively cheap/average contract but nothing more.
I kind of believe that we can get Moore to similar level if we give him more opportunities. He's awesome on special teams, too.
 
I kind of believe that we can get Moore to similar level if we give him more opportunities. He's awesome on special teams, too.

all of our wrs this year have been awesome blocking - like we've had key blocks for key tds in both special teams and on offence in the running game sprung by our wrs

both tds vs the bengals on runs were sprung by john brown, and he had a great block for lamar's running td vs the raiders too - and chris moore had the key great block for cyrus jones return td too

just something ive noticed
 
It’s a shame Elliott ended his season, we really needed to see what we had there. We gotta address safety this offseason now.

If we don’t make the playoffs then deionte Thompson is in our range, barring a big rise. I’m also hoping for a Jerry Tillery if we can’t land Thompson, I think Tillery is a certified future nfl stud and I don’t buy for one second that edge rush is a bigger problem than interior rush. If we can’t land either, trade back as much as you goddamn can because we either need to address a lot of holes, or make up for holes with one superstar talent, if we aren’t landing a sure superstar with our first then move back.

Trade all the way back to the 2nd I don’t care, we need picks. If we move back to the late 20s and can land a Damien Harris, Mack Wilson, good. If not, try to move back further and then go hard on the OL and try to grab Benny snell later
I wouldnt be surprised of we take earl thomas.. id have earl over every saftey in this upcoming draft. None of them are rangy ball hawks from what ive seen and thats what we need.
 
except since we've had 3 quality OL in the lineup this OL has been functional - and its been functional despite an injury to the LT... so that would suggest 3 is a good minimum number... and i did say in the initial post that someone made a nice correction that i agree with - that you shouldnt and cant have the 2 non-quality OL in that situation start next to each other - and that's what the ravens have at LG and C
We're falling into this trap agian where we play shit defenses, which our oline has success against not only because the opposition has been utter trash, but because Lamar is a different look that they haven't been able to figure out how to stop it yet. Not to mention we've been going especially TE heavy. Given that fact, and the fact that Yanda can retire any day now, yeah, we're going to need more than 3. Even if we run a lot of two TE sets, and Andrews becomes a competent blocker, the interior oline and dline is still the biggest need on the team bar none. Lamar and shitty defenses have far more to do with this run game then the interior oline. Let's not kid ourselves. When your liabilities are as bad as someone like Skura, more than 3 is needed. We need to have quality starters across the board. Which is doable. I'm not suggesting everyone needs to be an all pro.

Whatever the point is moot. My point still stands that there are several valid ways to build a team. DJ's is one, but I don't think that's the model we are going to follow
 
I wouldnt be surprised of we take earl thomas.. id have earl over every saftey in this upcoming draft. None of them are rangy ball hawks from what ive seen and thats what we need.
Thompson is absolutely a rangy ballhawk. He’s used primarily as a single high roamer and has the range to still come down from single high and shut down a run at the LOS when it bounces to the edge.

Lukas denis is rangy as well and very sound in coverage assignments
 
Thompson is absolutely a rangy ballhawk. He’s used primarily as a single high roamer and has the range to still come down from single high and shut down a run at the LOS when it bounces to the edge.

Lukas denis is rangy as well and very sound in coverage assignments
FA this year, then Xavier McKinney 2020. That dude is awesome in every facet of safety play.
 
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