The Random Thought Thread

[CanadianRavensFan]

i mean tbf to Tua, he's a rookie coming off major hip surgery

looks to me like he hasnt got his zip back yet - release looks a bit longer and the ball doesnt come out as cleanly

of course it might also be related to the fact that he wont have 4 1st round picks at WR to throw to

he's been very lacklustre so far - but a bit early to call him a bust

While there are definitely reasons that contribute to why tua has looked bad so far that doesn't change the fact that the other QBs look much better than he does. But right now he looks like captain check down which is not something I should be saying about the 5th overall pick. The fact that he made the 26th ranked defense look above average and then fitz came in and moved the ball effortlessly is damning in my eyes.

 

[CanadianRavensFan]

This is why I want to play the Steelers and not the Bills .

If our secondary can get healthy I have no problem seeing us shutting down the bills offense. But for the wildcard round I definitely prefer us playing the steelers.

 

[rossihunter2]

While there are definitely reasons that contribute to why tua has looked bad so far that doesn't change the fact that the other QBs look much better than he does. But right now he looks like captain check down which is not something I should be saying about the 5th overall pick. The fact that he made the 26th ranked defense look above average and then fitz came in and moved the ball effortlessly is damning in my eyes.

so he's not ready... sure...

are we really defining an entire young QB's career based on his first year in the league coming off hip surgery and a stilted offseason...

yes, obviously it's not what you'd want and is put in stark relief by Herbert's performances (because he was taken 1 pick later) and Burrow too

but calling him a bust and writing him off after 9 games seems ridiculously premature

 

[JoeyFlex5]

i mean tbf to Tua, he's a rookie coming off major hip surgery

looks to me like he hasnt got his zip back yet - release looks a bit longer and the ball doesnt come out as cleanly

of course it might also be related to the fact that he wont have 4 1st round picks at WR to throw to

he's been very lacklustre so far - but a bit early to call him a bust

agreed, if he stays healthy i think hes gonna be a very good qb

 

[cdp]

so he's not ready... sure...

are we really defining an entire young QB's career based on his first year in the league coming off hip surgery and a stilted offseason...

yes, obviously it's not what you'd want and is put in stark relief by Herbert's performances (because he was taken 1 pick later) and Burrow too

but calling him a bust and writing him off after 9 games seems ridiculously premature

Coming back from a serious injury is not only a physical challenge but also a mental/psychological one. Tua has to regain confidence in his hip and simultaneously learn a new scheme and get accustomed to the NFL level.

 

[Dom McRaven]

After seeing the news about Mason Rudolph playing......

.......SZN OVR. Bengals are gonna play like Super Bowl contenders. Like their offense is gonna turn into The Greatest Show on Turf while their defense goes full '85 Bears on us. Fuck this shit.

 

[rmcjacket23]

so he's not ready... sure...

are we really defining an entire young QB's career based on his first year in the league coming off hip surgery and a stilted offseason...

yes, obviously it's not what you'd want and is put in stark relief by Herbert's performances (because he was taken 1 pick later) and Burrow too

but calling him a bust and writing him off after 9 games seems ridiculously premature

Well... maybe.

I guess my question is... who are the quality franchise QBs, even in the last few decades, who have been benched multiple times their rookie year for ineffective play?

Like even all the great one's who threw like 15-20+ INTs in their first year and had major hurdles all got to stay in there and take their licks.

 

[CanadianRavensFan]

so he's not ready... sure...

are we really defining an entire young QB's career based on his first year in the league coming off hip surgery and a stilted offseason...

yes, obviously it's not what you'd want and is put in stark relief by Herbert's performances (because he was taken 1 pick later) and Burrow too

but calling him a bust and writing him off after 9 games seems ridiculously premature

Sure it might be premature. If tua balls out in year two then I will adjust my opinion of him but based off of what I have seen of him he is not the FQB that the dolphins were looking for.

 

[cdp]

Well... maybe.

I guess my question is... who are the quality franchise QBs, even in the last few decades, who have been benched multiple times their rookie year for ineffective play?

Like even all the great one's who threw like 15-20+ INTs in their first year and had major hurdles all got to stay in there and take their licks.

Honestly i don't remember. Flores also got kind of lucky because they managed to win the raiders game off a coverage breakdown. I know some might think it was a heroic play, but it doesn't happen if you play fundamentally sound on defense. What happens if they lose the game though? Why do you let your rookie start if you bench him every time the offense becomes ineffective. Just sit him for a year instead of this bs or you live with the consequences of letting your rookie qb play.

 

[LSURavenFan]

I still think it's too early to make a call on Tua.

What I will say though, he definitely benefited from Jeudy/Ruggs/Smith/Waddle catching passes. Miami has limited weapons aside from Parker and Gesicki.

I think MIA will take a high end receiver early in the draft. If this is still a topic of debate next season when MIA has more weapons, then the "bust" debate is definitely fair.

I also think Flores is stuck between a rock and a hard place. They clearly want to develop Tua, hence the switch in the first place. But they've also overachieved and found themselves in the thick of a playoff race, a spot I doubt they expected to be in. It's tough because the Dolphins have been irrelevant for so long, they need to make the playoffs, but they also have what they believe to be a franchise QB that is struggling. I'd also add that I think they really need to make it this year because regression feels inevitable for them next year.

 

[rossihunter2]

Well... maybe.

I guess my question is... who are the quality franchise QBs, even in the last few decades, who have been benched multiple times their rookie year for ineffective play?

Like even all the great one's who threw like 15-20+ INTs in their first year and had major hurdles all got to stay in there and take their licks.

and how many of those guys were coming off major surgery?
it's not common

im not saying he's amazing, im just saying it seems bizarre to write him off after 9 games

 

[rossihunter2]

Sure it might be premature. If tua balls out in year two then I will adjust my opinion of him but based off of what I have seen of him he is not the FQB that the dolphins were looking for.

i mean im not saying you have to like him - just saying it seems early to write him off

that being said i dont think he's done anything that means the dolphins shouldnt be seriously considering adding another QB in this year's draft - especially given that top 5 pick they've got (again)

 

[rossihunter2]

I still think it's too early to make a call on Tua.

What I will say though, he definitely benefited from Jeudy/Ruggs/Smith/Waddle catching passes. Miami has limited weapons aside from Parker and Gesicki.

I think MIA will take a high end receiver early in the draft. If this is still a topic of debate next season when MIA has more weapons, then the "bust" debate is definitely fair.

I also think Flores is stuck between a rock and a hard place. They clearly want to develop Tua, hence the switch in the first place. But they've also overachieved and found themselves in the thick of a playoff race, a spot I doubt they expected to be in. It's tough because the Dolphins have been irrelevant for so long, they need to make the playoffs, but they also have what they believe to be a franchise QB that is struggling. I'd also add that I think they really need to make it this year because regression feels inevitable for them next year.

idk they feel like a team that's on the rise to me - got tons of young talent, a good new(ish) head coach and multiple high value draft picks still (including a top 5 pick) and the 7th most cap space in the NFL in 2021 - they seem set to massively improve IF they can find their QB - that might be Tua or it might be someone else

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I still think it's too early to make a call on Tua.

What I will say though, he definitely benefited from Jeudy/Ruggs/Smith/Waddle catching passes. Miami has limited weapons aside from Parker and Gesicki.

I think MIA will take a high end receiver early in the draft. If this is still a topic of debate next season when MIA has more weapons, then the "bust" debate is definitely fair.

I also think Flores is stuck between a rock and a hard place. They clearly want to develop Tua, hence the switch in the first place. But they've also overachieved and found themselves in the thick of a playoff race, a spot I doubt they expected to be in. It's tough because the Dolphins have been irrelevant for so long, they need to make the playoffs, but they also have what they believe to be a franchise QB that is struggling. I'd also add that I think they really need to make it this year because regression feels inevitable for them next year.

i agreed all the way up until the end. i think the dolphins are on the upswing for a while, im expecting a bills-esque rise out of them, they probably will get weapons for tua, along with solidifying the OL, their defense is not playing bad and theyre well coached, and i expect tua to make a major leap next year, it was the covid year, he was coming off a major surgery, it was his first nfl offseason in a crazy year, i just cant hammer tua for not looking like a stud right away, i think the kid is primed to become russell wilson 2.0 if he can keep healthy and i dont envision any kind of regression from the dolphins

 

[Davesta]

So if we win this Sunday.. and browns beat the Steelers.

Is the wildcard matchup

#2 bills vs #7 browns

#3 Steelers vs #6 ravens?

because that’s 2 juicy matchups!

out of all the wildcard teams (besides us) that can give bills problems, I think browns gotta be up there. Bills are the biggest threat. Rather see them go the hard route

 

[LSURavenFan]

i agreed all the way up until the end. i think the dolphins are on the upswing for a while, im expecting a bills-esque rise out of them, they probably will get weapons for tua, along with solidifying the OL, their defense is not playing bad and theyre well coached, and i expect tua to make a major leap next year, it was the covid year, he was coming off a major surgery, it was his first nfl offseason in a crazy year, i just cant hammer tua for not looking like a stud right away, i think the kid is primed to become russell wilson 2.0 if he can keep healthy and i dont envision any kind of regression from the dolphins

My main thing is, the Dolphins have done their damage with defence, special teams and turnover differential.

Special teams, fake punts, big plays in the kick return game are very hard to replicate. Same thing with turnover differential. There’s so much good fortune that goes into all of that.

I do think the Dolphins are building something good, I just don’t think they will be a 12 win operation again next season

 

[rossihunter2]

just started looking at the schedule for next year (because this discussion made me look lol)

and it looks like we've got the NFC North

and our prospective 1-game in the NFC is gonna be against either the Rams or Cardinals

we've got the AFC West

then we'll be away at the Dolphins and home against either the Titans or Colts

looks like a pretty tough schedule to me lol

 

[JoeyFlex5]

My main thing is, the Dolphins have done their damage with defence, special teams and turnover differential.

Special teams, fake punts, big plays in the kick return game are very hard to replicate. Same thing with turnover differential. There’s so much good fortune that goes into all of that.

I do think the Dolphins are building something good, I just don’t think they will be a 12 win operation again next season

I got you, those things are basically impossible to carry into the next season, as we ravens fans have seen here in 2020, but defense isn’t necessarily something that’s hard to replicate one year to the next, Flores has a rock solid scheme and the right players to run it right now, and I see no reason their defense won’t be the same or better in 2021.

They may regress back to average in a lot of categories, turnovers especially, but I expect a pretty major leap offensively next year as well, which should bring them to equal or better. I’m banking on tua panning out after a regular full offseason and getting some help on the roster as well

 

[JoeyFlex5]

just started looking at the schedule for next year (because this discussion made me look lol)

and it looks like we've got the NFC North

and our prospective 1-game in the NFC is gonna be against either the Rams or Cardinals

we've got the AFC West

then we'll be away at the Dolphins and home against either the Titans or Colts

looks like a pretty tough schedule to me lol

Goddamn... we better make a run right goddamn now because the way this team has been trending with injuries I’m not sure we make the playoffs with that schedule

 

[rmcjacket23]

and how many of those guys were coming off major surgery?
it's not common

im not saying he's amazing, im just saying it seems bizarre to write him off after 9 games

I wouldn't say I'm writing him off. But its also bizarre when a coaching staff goes quarter-by-quarter with a franchise QB that they were certain wasn't ready week 1, but somehow knew was ready by like week 8 or whenever it was they put him in.

And at the first sign of poor performance or bad play, they put in a backup and somehow the offense changes significantly.

So if its play calling, where they're not designing plays for him to be aggressive and attack down field, and that's where the offense is at its best, then why is he out there at all? This is where, as many good things that Brian Flores has done this year, he loses me.