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The Random Thought Thread

I know this is completely off-topic and i've already mentioned it before only a couple of months ago... probably even in this thread but man...

watching Ryan Jensen and wondering 'what if' - i honestly dont think there's a better C in the league right now

we've been so good at picking and retaining our top talents but more and more it feels like he's the one that got away (maybe ZDS too to an extent also) - just imagining how even more amazing this running game could have been with Jensen at C and also his ability in the passing game
 
Both moves look bad in hindsight. Both players have stepped their game up as well after their departure. The one that hurts the most to me is ZDS. We have had so much trouble rushing the passer and that man has gone on the become a dominant player. Remember wanting to keep Jensen but don't think the team was in a position to give him that contract.

Side note, next above average/promising center is most likely being retained and I think it will be Bozeman.
 
redrum52 said:
Both moves look bad in hindsight. Both players have stepped their game up as well after their departure. The one that hurts the most to me is ZDS. We have had so much trouble rushing the passer and that man has gone on the become a dominant player. Remember wanting to keep Jensen but don't think the team was in a position to give him that contract.

Side note, next above average/promising center is most likely being retained and I think it will be Bozeman.
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Ehhh ZDS we didn't really have an option. He just wasn't that good here either, wether it be scheme or a fresh start he could never finish here. Jensen I still am really upset about. He was the heart of the line and would have been an awesome bully. In games like vs the titans he is person I would want most in the league. We got Crabtree, John Brown, and James Hurst instead... Wish we found a way to keep him
 
purplepittabread88 said:
Ehhh ZDS we didn't really have an option. He just wasn't that good here either, wether it be scheme or a fresh start he could never finish here. Jensen I still am really upset about. He was the heart of the line and would have been an awesome bully. In games like vs the titans he is person I would want most in the league. We got Crabtree, John Brown, and James Hurst instead... Wish we found a way to keep him
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Hey! We almost only had Ryan Grant and James Hurst instead! Remember that gaffe? Lol
 
redrum52 said:
Both moves look bad in hindsight. Both players have stepped their game up as well after their departure. The one that hurts the most to me is ZDS. We have had so much trouble rushing the passer and that man has gone on the become a dominant player. Remember wanting to keep Jensen but don't think the team was in a position to give him that contract.

Side note, next above average/promising center is most likely being retained and I think it will be Bozeman.
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see i think schematically we're not gonna get a ton of finishes from pass rushers if they aren't dominantly fast - ZDS was an interior pressure wrecking ball for us but was frustratingly notorious for his lack of finish with the ravens

i think the pass rush is still underwhelming even if we retain ZDS and we probably don't bring mcphee back if we do keep ZDS - i just think we dont see a marked uptick in his production if we keep him because of the defensive scheme...

jensen was someone i think we could have retained but at the time he wasnt a top 5 C and he was being paid like one - in hindsight that was great value
 
rossihunter2 said:
see i think schematically we're not gonna get a ton of finishes from pass rushers if they aren't dominantly fast - ZDS was an interior pressure wrecking ball for us but was frustratingly notorious for his lack of finish with the ravens

i think the pass rush is still underwhelming even if we retain ZDS and we probably don't bring mcphee back if we do keep ZDS - i just think we dont see a marked uptick in his production if we keep him because of the defensive scheme...

jensen was someone i think we could have retained but at the time he wasnt a top 5 C and he was being paid like one - in hindsight that was great value
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Agree with all of this.

On the topic of ZDS 100%. One of the reasons I can't wait to see Oweh suit up. Broke that mold of production over athleticism(though improved his run def) and feel we need that kind of speed in or LB group for what we do. Until recently hadn't been the fastest group but seems to be a change in dynamic or philosophy with how we're going about the linebackers.
 
redrum52 said:
Agree with all of this.

On the topic of ZDS 100%. One of the reasons I can't wait to see Oweh suit up. Broke that mold of production over athleticism(though improved his run def) and feel we need that kind of speed in or LB group for what we do. Until recently hadn't been the fastest group but seems to be a change in dynamic or philosophy with how we're going about the linebackers.
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Thinking Wink is being given much more of a say in who he wants in his scheme and what players he wants to bring in. With all this being said, if Houston is brought in, I’m kinda telling y’all now that Houston’s impact will not be seen via sack counts. He’ll make an impact but I doubt he’ll get more than 8
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
I think the world is making way too big a deal out of this, but man the Steelers have a knack for finding these guys lol
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I agree but dude is still fuckin weird. This is why I will always like animals more than people
 
redrum52 said:
Agree with all of this.

On the topic of ZDS 100%. One of the reasons I can't wait to see Oweh suit up. Broke that mold of production over athleticism(though improved his run def) and feel we need that kind of speed in or LB group for what we do. Until recently hadn't been the fastest group but seems to be a change in dynamic or philosophy with how we're going about the linebackers.
Click to expand...
we better hope like hell wink doesn’t get a HC job, because they’ve established a rapport between him and the FO, very clear philosophy and goal, stack the cb unit and keep it deep, have players that can stop the run, manufacture the pass rush, and now we’re at a point where we see that it’s better to go all in on a scheme that’s proven to work, and give wink guys that will make the use of his scheme, rather than try to find guys who create on their own(oweh vs ngakoue or Judon for instance).

Legit Pass rushers are hard to hit on too, the good ones go very early, and the ones that go in the next tier tend to have a high bust rate because they get overdrafted so much. Seems like corners is just something that our FO really nails in the draft and the values are so much better there, unless you’re an idiot like mike mayock drafting Damon arnett in the teens lol.
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
we better hope like hell wink doesn’t get a HC job, because they’ve established a rapport between him and the FO, very clear philosophy and goal, stack the cb unit and keep it deep, have players that can stop the run, manufacture the pass rush, and now we’re at a point where we see that it’s better to go all in on a scheme that’s proven to work, and give wink guys that will make the use of his scheme, rather than try to find guys who create on their own(oweh vs ngakoue or Judon for instance).

Legit Pass rushers are hard to hit on too, the good ones go very early, and the ones that go in the next tier tend to have a high bust rate because they get overdrafted so much. Seems like corners is just something that our FO really nails in the draft and the values are so much better there, unless you’re an idiot like mike mayock drafting Damon arnett in the teens lol.
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Would hate to lose Wink, but I think the only place we might struggle if going back to a more traditional defense would be at safety. It's a spot that I assume is addressed next year anyway early. Could see that and DL being priorities.

@Sizzle I want Houston to come in and don't at the same time. Would love him here but feel like the team would be too inclined to take away Oweh's snaps. That said could see him being a great mentor for the young guys. McPhee hell defend the run and Houston in their ear with the pass rush moves.
 
redrum52 said:
Agree with all of this.

On the topic of ZDS 100%. One of the reasons I can't wait to see Oweh suit up. Broke that mold of production over athleticism(though improved his run def) and feel we need that kind of speed in or LB group for what we do. Until recently hadn't been the fastest group but seems to be a change in dynamic or philosophy with how we're going about the linebackers.
Click to expand...

we've started drafting different profiles of EDGE guy the last 5 years or so (to go alongside the 270lb+ physical rushers with production we'd previously spent most of our attention on) but none of the athletic speed rusher types have really panned out which is why i think the oweh pick came out of nowhere because he fit neither of the physical profiles we've been looking at recently...

Correa never turned into anything
Bowser ascended in coverage but has never become that lethal speed rusher
Tim Williams bounced himself out of the league but was probably the most natural looking speed rusher we'd drafted in maybe ever...

so now we have oweh who's heavier than all of those guys (and faster too) but also 20lbs lighter than we normally look for in other kinds of rusher
 
Sizzle said:
Thinking Wink is being given much more of a say in who he wants in his scheme and what players he wants to bring in. With all this being said, if Houston is brought in, I’m kinda telling y’all now that Houston’s impact will not be seen via sack counts. He’ll make an impact but I doubt he’ll get more than 8
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i think based on this defensive scheme - if someone hits 10 sacks in this defence i think you could make an argument for them to be among the highly rated edges in the league

if houston got 8 that would be amazing but id be more expecting something like 6 - i agree it's more likely we see his impact in other ways - if we do bring him in and oweh gets going then i think we might see peters get more picks in 2021 than he did in 2020 because the ball is gonna come out really fast

if oweh can come in guns blazing and he actually is everything we think/want him to be then i think he could lead the team in sacks purely because of his athleticism off the edge in the scheme
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
we better hope like hell wink doesn’t get a HC job, because they’ve established a rapport between him and the FO, very clear philosophy and goal, stack the cb unit and keep it deep, have players that can stop the run, manufacture the pass rush, and now we’re at a point where we see that it’s better to go all in on a scheme that’s proven to work, and give wink guys that will make the use of his scheme, rather than try to find guys who create on their own(oweh vs ngakoue or Judon for instance).

Legit Pass rushers are hard to hit on too, the good ones go very early, and the ones that go in the next tier tend to have a high bust rate because they get overdrafted so much. Seems like corners is just something that our FO really nails in the draft and the values are so much better there, unless you’re an idiot like mike mayock drafting Damon arnett in the teens lol.
Click to expand...

also as analytics and the NFL progress more and more to the quicker passing game with the ball coming out quicker and quicker - most teams are going to start making the coverage over pass rush choice when drafting high - the ravens have probably the deepest secondary in the league and we still drafted 2 rookies including a day 2 pick in that position

regarding wink, i think it's highly likely that as long as we keep making the playoffs that he's not going to get a HC job - he's too old to be one of the young up-and-comers that teams like, he's a defensive coach not an offensive coach and he's not the kind of guy that teams will wait on if he's in the playoffs

i think he deserves a shot at a HC job and i think he'd be a really good one but i dont think he'll get it and ill bet the ravens are probably very secretly happy about that

especially as wink is probably one of the 2 current most advanced innovators on defence in the current NFL along with the current Rams Chargers head coach Brandon Staley - they've both come at the problem different ways but have designed defences that start to answer some of the issues posed by modern passing offences
 
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rossihunter2 said:
also as analytics and the NFL progress more and more to the quicker passing game with the ball coming out quicker and quicker - most teams are going to start making the coverage over pass rush choice when drafting high - the ravens have probably the deepest secondary in the league and we still drafted 2 rookies including a day 2 pick in that position

regarding wink, i think it's highly likely that as long as we keep making the playoffs that he's not going to get a HC job - he's too old to be one of the young up-and-comers that teams like, he's a defensive coach not an offensive coach and he's not the kind of guy that teams will wait on if he's in the playoffs

i think he deserves a shot at a HC job and i think he'd be a really good one but i dont think he'll get it and ill bet the ravens are probably very secretly happy about that

especially as wink is probably one of the 2 current most advanced innovators on defence in the current NFL along with the current Rams head coach Brandon Staley - they've both come at the problem different ways but have designed defences that start to answer some of the issues posed by modern passing offences
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Love all of this and agree… but Brandon Staley isn’t HC of the Rams lol
 
redrum52 said:
Would hate to lose Wink, but I think the only place we might struggle if going back to a more traditional defense would be at safety. It's a spot that I assume is addressed next year anyway early. Could see that and DL being priorities.

@Sizzle I want Houston to come in and don't at the same time. Would love him here but feel like the team would be too inclined to take away Oweh's snaps. That said could see him being a great mentor for the young guys. McPhee hell defend the run and Houston in their ear with the pass rush moves.
Click to expand...

i dont think you'd ever see the ravens go back to a more "traditional" defence - outside of the dean pees tenure we've been a pressure-based defence for most of the post marvin lewis era

if wink were to leave it's unlikely that would change - my guess is the new DC would be someone on staff - either one of the guys we just brought in from outside in Rob Ryan (who's defensive scheme is probably more similar to Wink's than anyone else's - which makes sense given that wink worked under him for years), Anthony Weaver who played for the ravens and was at the Texans when they innovated a consistent 5 man rush to create 1v1 matchups for Watt, Clowney and mercilus

but more likely it's chris hewitt who is the "pass game coordinator" and has been working within this defence for years - it would likely be that he puts his own twists philosophically on the same ravens defence but my guess is that we'd still be a very pressure-oriented defence whichever of those 3 guys we picked...
 
rossihunter2 said:
i dont think you'd ever see the ravens go back to a more "traditional" defence - outside of the dean pees tenure we've been a pressure-based defence for most of the post marvin lewis era

if wink were to leave it's unlikely that would change - my guess is the new DC would be someone on staff - either one of the guys we just brought in from outside in Rob Ryan (who's defensive scheme is probably more similar to Wink's than anyone else's - which makes sense given that wink worked under him for years), Anthony Weaver who played for the ravens and was at the Texans when they innovated a consistent 5 man rush to create 1v1 matchups for Watt, Clowney and mercilus

but more likely it's chris hewitt who is the "pass game coordinator" and has been working within this defence for years - it would likely be that he puts his own twists philosophically on the same ravens defence but my guess is that we'd still be a very pressure-oriented defence whichever of those 3 guys we picked...
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Dean pees was pressure philosophy too, the difference between pees and wink is that pees would blitz frequently to make the qb anticipate openings that aren’t there when pees would start dropping defenders, wink on the other hand just wants to stomp the absolute piss out of the OL and QB for 4 quarters and let the secondary handle themselves. Both schemes were built on the exotic blitz packages as their core.

the closest we had to a non pressure oriented scheme was Greg mattison 09-10 where we went to a super basic zone defense out of the 3-4, and ironically Ed reed in a limited injured season had one of his 3 best years in that scheme, most others seemed to regress big time, most notably haloti ngata who was made to 2 gap much more often
 
rossihunter2 said:
we've started drafting different profiles of EDGE guy the last 5 years or so (to go alongside the 270lb+ physical rushers with production we'd previously spent most of our attention on) but none of the athletic speed rusher types have really panned out which is why i think the oweh pick came out of nowhere because he fit neither of the physical profiles we've been looking at recently...

Correa never turned into anything
Bowser ascended in coverage but has never become that lethal speed rusher
Tim Williams bounced himself out of the league but was probably the most natural looking speed rusher we'd drafted in maybe ever...

so now we have oweh who's heavier than all of those guys (and faster too) but also 20lbs lighter than we normally look for in other kinds of rusher
Click to expand...
Oweh had absolutely freakish speed testing so he is commonly referred to as a speed rusher, but I disagree entirely. Oweh’s most natural tool in his pass rush kit is his bull rush, when he puts it all together and has a proper jump, engages with good timing, and maintains leverage, he looks unstoppable with his raw power rush, his speed/agility on the other hand well I have yet to see him effectively use it in a pass rush setting, he uses it incredibly well as a LB though. Very intriguing prospect for the ravens, he looks like a legitimate LB and has tools to wreck gameplans in the pass game but he just can’t do it on his own.

say wink martindale is owehs DC in college, he very well could’ve been a top 20 pick
 
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