The Random Thought Thread

[gtalk12]

Had a weird dream that on draft night we traded a 2nd and our 1st to move up somewhere in the top 10 and drafted a safety. Not sure where that came from nor have I seen enough college games to see who is out there worth something that high.

Not sure if this is #SIIE or just nonsense


#RanDUMB

 

[QuothTheRaven]

Had a weird dream that on draft night we traded a 2nd and our 1st to move up somewhere in the top 10 and drafted a safety. Not sure where that came from nor have I seen enough college games to see who is out there worth something that high.

Not sure if this is #SIIE or just nonsense


#RanDUMB

Given our needs I think I would be pissed with this outcome.

 

[rossihunter2]

Had a weird dream that on draft night we traded a 2nd and our 1st to move up somewhere in the top 10 and drafted a safety. Not sure where that came from nor have I seen enough college games to see who is out there worth something that high.

Not sure if this is #SIIE or just nonsense


#RanDUMB

gotta be kyle hamilton lol - from my limited knowledge of this year's class so far he'd have to be the only safety close to being worth a top 10 pick lol

 

[Simba]

right now for me the 4 most important positions for us to draft in no particular order:

OT
DT
CB
S

positions that we both need an influx of talent and also youth - cant just fix it in free agency with older vets - CB doesnt necessarily have to be a high pick depending on what direction we go this offseason with peters, averett, tavon etc. but we definitely need to keep adding talent to that room with some guys getting older and fewer guys on rookie deals - it certainly helps that we'll be able to retain Westry as a RFA

obviously if there's a high value EDGE available that's a perfectly acceptable high pick too

we've got 9 picks in the first 4 rounds - i'd be surprised if we don't double dip on the OL and DL and secondary in those rounds

Agreed. Outside of OL on offense, I'd take a swing at a mid-late round RB and TE but otherwise, I'm not touching anything else there unless the value is just incredible.

You can draft literally any position on defense and I'd be fine with it at this point. I think we have some promising young guys there (e.g. Westry, Stephens) but there's really no one on that side of the ball that is preventing me from drafting someone better. Honestly... Oweh, Bowser, Clark, Queen, and Humphrey are the only "locks" on that side of the ball, pending health of course.

 

[RavensMania]

Can we just start the Forum Mock now. Boy am I pissed.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Resources are sometimes used as an investment, sometimes as an expense.
Lately, the way I see it, we spend unnecessarily.
If the line does not give time to launch or does not open a clear lane for the rb, it is bad, whether they are injured or not.
Without Lamar, would you really see how bad the Ravens' line has been for years, or don't you remember when we ran a measly 5 yards a few years ago?
the last offensive line that played well was when kubiack was OC.
That was a well-trained offensive line.
then you just rejoined until Lamar and Roman's system worked magic.
now that magic is combated, and there players fail, there readings fail and, on top of that, injuries

Not saying the OL isn’t absolutely horrible, I’m saying Joe D as the offensive line coach is not the problem

 

[Truth]

Kevin Zeitler hasn't been perfect, but he's been nowhere near liable enough to consider eating just under $3 million just to not have on the roster next season. He's been credited with 0 sacks allowed and 0 QB hits allowed through almost 900 snaps. 11 pressures in that span. 4 of those came in 1 game, against the Lions, meaning he's given up just over half of a single pressure per game in the other 11 games. For context's sake, the most combined among guards is 46. Among OGs with at least 20% of the snaps, Zeitler currently ranks first in least disruptions allowed per snap in the entire league.

Is he truly the league's best in that regard? Perhaps not. It's not a concrete measurement, and the allotted numbers can be subjective. But the next two names on the list in the same category are former All-Pros Joel Bitonio and Joe Thuney, so he's not among unattractive company. Factor in the fact that he's making over $10 million less per season than the highest paid guard, and I'd say that Zeitler is the least of our problems among offensive linemen signed to future contracts. The idea of paying more than his contract's worth for him to play elsewhere isn't the soundest of options.

 

[UPennChem]

Eric Decosta did a lot of good stuff this off-season. However, I think we're really feeling the one major mistake he made. We knew that the OL is critical to Lamar's success. See 2019 VS 2020. Given how bad the OL was in 2020, he largely ignored upgrading it. I think some of the decision making regarding the Stanley health situation, OBJ etc was kinda suspect and we are really feeling the effects of it now. I think he's had a great start to his career but this is one blemish everyone knew about that he didn't correct and it's really haunting us. Hopefully he can learn from this. Outside of QB, you have to be stout in the trenches to compete.

 

[Simba]

Kevin Zeitler hasn't been perfect, but he's been nowhere near liable enough to consider eating just under $3 million just to not have on the roster next season. He's been credited with 0 sacks allowed and 0 QB hits allowed through almost 900 snaps. 11 pressures in that span. 4 of those came in 1 game, against the Lions, meaning he's given up just over half of a single pressure per game in the other 11 games. For context's sake, the most combined among guards is 46. Among OGs with at least 20% of the snaps, Zeitler currently ranks first in least disruptions allowed per snap in the entire league.

Is he truly the league's best in that regard? Perhaps not. It's not a concrete measurement, and the allotted numbers can be subjective. But the next two names on the list in the same category are former All-Pros Joel Bitonio and Joe Thuney, so he's not among unattractive company. Factor in the fact that he's making over $10 million less per season than the highest paid guard, and I'd say that Zeitler is the least of our problems among offensive linemen signed to future contracts. The idea of paying more than his contract's worth for him to play elsewhere isn't the soundest of options.

There's not even a question that Zeitler should return as the starter next year. He's been far and away the best OL on this team this year and it's not particularly close. He's not out there bashing heads like we saw with Yanda but he's been a really good and dependable player for us all year sans that Detroit game where everyone sucked.

 

[Davesta]

gotta be kyle hamilton lol - from my limited knowledge of this year's class so far he'd have to be the only safety close to being worth a top 10 pick lol

Kyle Hamilton would be nice in our defense. But we have so many needs, I doubt we get that aggressive.

Daxton Hill should be there in the late 1st round. 2nd best safety in the draft. Dax SPARQ score gotta be in the top percentile. Dudes an ATHLETE. We all know EDC loves them high SPARQ dudes.

Would be F’d up tho if we drafted him and then cut his brother, Justice Hill the same year LOL. Justice still got 1 year remaining on his rookie deal, but he’s coming off an Achilles injury and haven’t shown much prior. I can see us cutting him.

 

[UPennChem]

I've been critical of Roman the last month or so. Critical, but I believe justified. With that being said I also think there are a lot of aspects that he should be credited for. There are some people that think Roman is actively inhibitory to winning a superbowl, I would lean towards we definitely could.

I have not been critical of Wink, but I will be now. I think that the defense has shown large stretches of discipline especially early in the games, but they have had more collapses this year than any year in recent memory. I think what it means is that offenses learn how to deal with us over the course of the game and by the time they do, our older and injured defense can't handle it. If this happened once or twice ok, but I think Wink is forcing things and not adapting in a way to help our defense close things out. Still though, I believe you could win a superbowl with Wink at DC.

Obviously the year has been ravaged with injuries and will tarnish what could have been a really good season for us. But more than the coordinators, more than Lamar, I think the future success of this team is most strongly dictated by the short term decision making of EDC. Can he over the next two seasons and particularly this off-season get the team in a position to make a run and also set up the future with Lamars huge contract? Then it's going to be about drafting really well.

I know we have a draft the best guy philosophy, but I'm just really not sure that is the right thing to do. Obviously draft the best talent you can find, but there are just some positions more important than others and that varies team to team. To go another off-season without a serious attempt to fix the OL would be a criminal mistake in my opinion. The salary cap is increasing, there are some cuts that can be made, there will hopefully be Earls money. We have a lot of draft capital. It's really put up or shut up time for this team next year. God willing we won't be so cursed with injuries. Let's go Ravens!

 

[rossihunter2]

Agreed. Outside of OL on offense, I'd take a swing at a mid-late round RB and TE but otherwise, I'm not touching anything else there unless the value is just incredible.

You can draft literally any position on defense and I'd be fine with it at this point. I think we have some promising young guys there (e.g. Westry, Stephens) but there's really no one on that side of the ball that is preventing me from drafting someone better. Honestly... Oweh, Bowser, Clark, Queen, and Humphrey are the only "locks" on that side of the ball, pending health of course.

id throw in madubuike too as a lock but yeah there’s potentially a lot of spots and snaps available all over this defence next year

 

[rossihunter2]

Eric Decosta did a lot of good stuff this off-season. However, I think we're really feeling the one major mistake he made. We knew that the OL is critical to Lamar's success. See 2019 VS 2020. Given how bad the OL was in 2020, he largely ignored upgrading it. I think some of the decision making regarding the Stanley health situation, OBJ etc was kinda suspect and we are really feeling the effects of it now. I think he's had a great start to his career but this is one blemish everyone knew about that he didn't correct and it's really haunting us. Hopefully he can learn from this. Outside of QB, you have to be stout in the trenches to compete.

it’s so tough to look at it objectively but there’s a reason many here (and elsewhere) really thought we’d be drafting a tackle

it’s hard to expect every single decision at one position to turn out the worst way but that’s what’s happened - they hedged and they got caught out

but not many teams out there able to compete with their starting LT and RT missing some or all of the season like we’ve had with Stanley and Mekari... villanueva’s sucked too and that’s another gamble that hasn’t paid off

but not many teams are gonna be playing their 4th OT and expecting to be successful

 

[rossihunter2]

Kyle Hamilton would be nice in our defense. But we have so many needs, I doubt we get that aggressive.

Daxton Hill should be there in the late 1st round. 2nd best safety in the draft. Dax SPARQ score gotta be in the top percentile. Dudes an ATHLETE. We all know EDC loves them high SPARQ dudes.

Would be F’d up tho if we drafted him and then cut his brother, Justice Hill the same year LOL. Justice still got 1 year remaining on his rookie deal, but he’s coming off an Achilles injury and haven’t shown much prior. I can see us cutting him.

haha - yeah I’m not actually advocating for a massive trade up (especially this year)

I’m always team trade down (or pick)

 

[UPennChem]

it’s so tough to look at it objectively but there’s a reason many here (and elsewhere) really thought we’d be drafting a tackle

it’s hard to expect every single decision at one position to turn out the worst way but that’s what’s happened - they hedged and they got caught out

but not many teams out there able to compete with their starting LT and RT missing some or all of the season like we’ve had with Stanley and Mekari... villanueva’s sucked too and that’s another gamble that hasn’t paid off

but not many teams are gonna be playing their 4th OT and expecting to be successful

I completely agree. It's what makes things so sad. We've done admirably given our adversity. We're playing 4th stringers in many positions. But we definitely took a risk a Tackle and it did not pay off that's for sure.

 

[Dom McRaven]

haha - yeah I’m not actually advocating for a massive trade up (especially this year)

I’m always team trade down (or pick)

I'm looking forward to see what prospects you'll talk me into #SIIE'ing for this upcoming draft.

 

[rossihunter2]

I've been critical of Roman the last month or so. Critical, but I believe justified. With that being said I also think there are a lot of aspects that he should be credited for. There are some people that think Roman is actively inhibitory to winning a superbowl, I would lean towards we definitely could.

I have not been critical of Wink, but I will be now. I think that the defense has shown large stretches of discipline especially early in the games, but they have had more collapses this year than any year in recent memory. I think what it means is that offenses learn how to deal with us over the course of the game and by the time they do, our older and injured defense can't handle it. If this happened once or twice ok, but I think Wink is forcing things and not adapting in a way to help our defense close things out. Still though, I believe you could win a superbowl with Wink at DC.

Obviously the year has been ravaged with injuries and will tarnish what could have been a really good season for us. But more than the coordinators, more than Lamar, I think the future success of this team is most strongly dictated by the short term decision making of EDC. Can he over the next two seasons and particularly this off-season get the team in a position to make a run and also set up the future with Lamars huge contract? Then it's going to be about drafting really well.

I know we have a draft the best guy philosophy, but I'm just really not sure that is the right thing to do. Obviously draft the best talent you can find, but there are just some positions more important than others and that varies team to team. To go another off-season without a serious attempt to fix the OL would be a criminal mistake in my opinion. The salary cap is increasing, there are some cuts that can be made, there will hopefully be Earls money. We have a lot of draft capital. It's really put up or shut up time for this team next year. God willing we won't be so cursed with injuries. Let's go Ravens!

value is value - positional value is an element of how they rate guys too - you can see they adjusted the way they grade and scout WRs with the types of guys they’re picking - it’s certainly possible that they need to take a similar approach with some tackle prospects

that being said 2020 was a low value draft positional with a LB-RB first 2 picks but when we’ve had high capital we’ve mostly spent it on high value positions in recent times especially in the 1st round:
2015: WR in 1st but TE and NT in 2 and 3
2016: LT, EDGE, DE
2017: CB, EDGE, DL, EDGE
2018: QB in 1 and OT in 3 but TE in 1 and 3 not great value-wise
2019: WR, EDGE, WR
2020: DT, WR, OL in 3rd but also LB in 1, RB in 2 and LB in 3
2021: WR, EDGE, OL, DB (albeit safety not corner although he might have been either when he was drafted)

to me QB, WR, OT, DT (not NT), EDGE, CB are the value positions

I um and ah about whether C or G are value positions and the same with safety

but TE, RB, NT, LB clearly the “lowest” value positions to me in terms of draft

 

[rossihunter2]

I completely agree. It's what makes things so sad. We've done admirably given our adversity. We're playing 4th stringers in many positions. But we definitely took a risk a Tackle and it did not pay off that's for sure.

I just think that while it’s certainly criticisable it’s hard to crucify them for not foreseeing all of these things working themselves out the worst possible way with Stanley unable to play, Villanueva being awful, mekari getting injured and Phillips definitely not taking a step as a tackle

Having Spencer brown sniped 1 spot ahead of us in the draft really hurts but I’m not convinced the ravens liked him as much as I did

 

[rossihunter2]

I'm looking forward to see what prospects you'll talk me into #SIIE'ing for this upcoming draft.

me too - don’t normally start studying up until the CFB playoffs and then I try and get through a fair amount of the senior bowl roster

so unless I fall in love with someone early I’m unlikely to have Rashod Bateman ready for you before February lol

That being said Hollywood was one of the first guys I watched in 2019 and I found madubuike fairly early too I think

 

[UPennChem]

I just think that while it’s certainly criticisable it’s hard to crucify them for not foreseeing all of these things working themselves out the worst possible way with Stanley unable to play, Villanueva being awful, mekari getting injured and Phillips definitely not taking a step as a tackle

Having Spencer brown sniped 1 spot ahead of us in the draft really hurts but I’m not convinced the ravens liked him as much as I did

I hear ya. But I don't think it's entirely shocking that AV has been awful. Stanley's health was a risk. Powers is exactly as we knew him. Bozeman was technically a risk a C. He's been ok though. Zeitleri is pretty much as expected. Mekari has been a bright spot but injured. Tyree has been awful albeit out of position. I think the one big issue was just going in with 0 tackle depth of any kind. Recall Tyree was the starting LG. It's not fair to think you're getting 16 games out of your whole line