Dam i got in at 349 i believe
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The Random Thought Thread
- Thread starter The Greek
- Start date
Im thinking about getting s charger during the last year of them making the cats
Wow
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
I mean the eye test is going to fail you often. People's eyes trick them into believing things are true that aren't all the time. A lot of people that watch games don't actually "watch" games. They're fixated on whatever biases they have, whatever they've seen in the past and pretend like they're seeing in the present, etc. In some cases, they're believing whatever they're told to believe.
I really don't care to rank QBs, because a lot of it is about preference. But the reality is most people would put Russ in a second group of QBs that aren't "top tier", and there's really not much marginal difference between one or another in terms of talent, skills, and impact on the game. And that group is getting bigger every year seemingly, as guys like Burrow and Herbert and others enter the league, and many of your previous "top tier" QBs, like Brady, Brees, etc. exit the league.
completely out of nowhere too - there arent many comparisons across sports for that kind of transcendental talent/prowess - he was a master of a discipline that's seemingly a dying art - leg spin is so complex and difficult that you rarely see leg spinners good enough to succeed in test cricket - he was so good that everyone who has ever come before him and who ever comes after him will always be compared to him... and no one will ever be able to
utterly incredible - i will never ever forget him dismantling england's batting across multiple ashes (including 2005 when england finally broke the losing streak but he consistently managed to bamboozle andrew strauss anyway)
Here's who ive got who id rather have than russ right now:
Mahomes
Lamar
Allen
Rodgers
i think ive already seen enough from herbert and burrow to put them around in that conversation of potentially being ahead of russ along with dak
but that would put russ somewhere in the 5-9 range for me - i dont think it's out of the question that he could be 9th of those 9...
i think the only other QBs that anyone would even put in that conversation would be stafford and kyler - i think russ is better than both those guys but i could see an argument for stafford for sure (although id probably disagree)
either way, worst case, russ is 11th... i think in reality he's probably more like 8th or 9th
Ellicottraven
Ravens Ring of Honor
Very sad. In my view, he was the greatest spinner of all time and died too young. However, he died having a lot of fun in Thailand, so that must have been nice. I'll give you a comparison. Shane Warne was a happier and more jovial Roger Clemens. He was that talented as a bowler in cricket.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Agree. If I were tiering this thing:
Tier 1:
Rodgers, Allen, Rodgers,
Tier 2:
Burrow, Lamar, Watson, Herbert, Wilson, Dak, Stafford, Kyler
Tier 3:
Tannehill, Carr, Ryan, Cousins
I think the first three guys are significant enough ahead of everybody else that they belong in their own tier.
The second group I think you can argue pros and cons of all, I think all are more than good enough to win a SB (obviously two of them have), and I think it would be hard to really "rank" any of them definitively above the other.
The third group are what I consider to be "fringe" franchise QBs who I think could win plenty of regular season games and could potentially win SB's IF they have tons of help and a lot of things go their way.
i mean ok - but russ has not been particularly great the last 2 years either... i think you're somewhat overrating russ based on his historical performance - the last time we saw him play among the very best in the league was in 2019 when lamar won a unanimous MVP
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Well in terms of Herbert, a couple things to point out...
1. Obviously his sample size is smaller than others.
2. Interceptions have sort of diminished in terms of being a "big deal" in the modern NFL. Total interceptions don't really matter at all, because lots of QBs throw the ball a ton, and so higher pass attempts = more INTs for pretty much everybody.
Matt Stafford lead the league in INTs last year. Herbert had the same number as Josh Allen, and pretty much all of your "stud" QBs not named Aaron Rodgers or maybe Russell Wilson had plenty of INTs last year. Brady, Lamar, Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Carr, Herbert, and Stafford all had 12 or more, and nobody had more than 17.
His INT %, a better metric because it takes into context total passing attempts (extremely significant stat) was middle of the pack. It was in-line with Josh Allen, Carr, Kyler Murray, and Mahomes. It was considerably better than Burrow and Stafford (your two SB QBs) and Lamar.
Herbert was top 10 last year in TD% and Yards/Attempt. He was 3rd in QBR (if you're into that kind of stat, which I'm not)
3. I can get behind Dak not being on the tier of some of these other guys, but I don't think anybody is going to argue he's significantly worse than some of these others.
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see when i say ints its cause i actually watch him play.. im not looking up the amount and just giving some general summary that sounds like it came out of a text book.. herbert ints come from terrible decision making.. reminds me of andrew luck. Good qb but terrible decision making.. same bad mistakes that he showed in his rookie season… and have you watched kyler murry at all? That dude just throws ball in the air and pray
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I saw russ play well last year when he had people believing that dk was a top 3 wr. This year even minus the injury he still looked like dangerous russ..from actual game play, you dnt see a drop off in his game at all.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Yup, and so does Mahomes and Allen. I see them make terrible decisions and terrible throws all the time also.
That's kind of the point. When mostly everybody is doing it, its time to assess whether its really that important to be focused on it.
Aaron Rodgers is about the only QB I've seen in a long time who doesn't somewhat routinely make really bad decisions with the football. Especially in aggressive situations and downfield.
Russ is a very good but not great QB. He gives the illusion of being upper echelon a few games a year but is also mired by some level of inconsistency and poor decision making, although it may not be as extreme as some others. I do think he can put himself back in that conversation of being upper echelon with now a much better supporting cast around him.
WR has been his only consistency on that team. They cycle through RB, TE, and OL like no ones business.
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
They’ve always done well with rbs and seems no matter how small a name they do fine there, but their pass protection is consistently awful, their TEs have been maybe the worst position group in the entire nfl for years, and they have forced the run game to Russ’ detriment, which sounds odd considering the lack of pass pro and respectable run production, but they’ve never seemed to have much of a game plan or rhythm, it’s either “the run game works, or Russ runs around until he finds an open man deep”. And on top of that the defense has been cheeks for a few years now too.
When they drafted rashaad penny in the first it became evident that nobody on that team had a fucking clue what they were doing and Russ has carried them to relevance for quite a while now
You dnt see them consistently making terrible decisions lol and if you dnt think decision making is important then you really confusing the fk outta me
So since when did he stop being an upper echelon qb and when did herbert, dak and them get better than him? Nobody convincing me that they would actually take 9 qbs over russ wilson. He would literally have to play like shit this season for me to call him bad
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
I'm like one of millions of people who saw it, so if you didn't see it, that's on you. There's literally videos everywhere of many blunders of Patrick Mahomes, especially this season. If you need help finding the videos, just let me know.
I mean just logically its kind of hard to argue your point. Its pretty much impossible to throw like 15 INTs in a season and most of them NOT be via poor decision making. It's pretty much a mathematical impossibility.
And remember... we're only talking about interceptions. We're not talking about the passes that land incomplete. If I take Mahomes or even Josh Allen for example, I guarantee I would find you like 5-6 throws, minimum, on a per game basis, where your only response would be "I have no fucking clue what he was doing there".
And the reason why nobody talks about it is largely because they're risk takers who can hit big plays that nobody else can by making risky throws, and sometimes, by making bad decisions.
Matt Stafford is the ultimate example of this. Teams learned a long time ago that when you're out there throwing 550-600 pass attempts a year, having a dink and dunk, conservative approach, that doesn't yield turnovers, doesn't guarantee you anything. They'd rather have risk takers. People who will push the ball down the field and take shots.
Nobody is suggesting decision making isn't important. But I can tell you that nobody thinks the best decision makers are guaranteed to be the best QBs. Patrick Mahomes isn't close to one of the better decision making QBs in the league in my eyes. Yet, he's pretty much widely considered the best.