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The Random Thought Thread

Os fans I’m sorry you gotta deal with this shit. Angelos crying poor and already hinting at selling off stars
I do not know if that is crying poor so much as he is simply that without boosting revenue, they cannot afford to be giving multiple players 200m like what they would have to do to keep this young core together for the next 10 years.

I know the article is saying "well just sell the team" but unless a new owner has some magical boosting revenue plan it is unlikely that the underlying problems fix themselves. The popular solutions are either: the big renovation plan, let players walk, or move the team. I have not actually heard a 4th option from anyone so far that keeps the team in the black.
 
I do not know if that is crying poor so much as he is simply that without boosting revenue, they cannot afford to be giving multiple players 200m like what they would have to do to keep this young core together for the next 10 years.

I know the article is saying "well just sell the team" but unless a new owner has some magical boosting revenue plan it is unlikely that the underlying problems fix themselves. The popular solutions are either: the big renovation plan, let players walk, or move the team. I have not actually heard a 4th option from anyone so far that keeps the team in the black.
Lol don’t fall for that bullshit. Charging you more for tickets and a hot dog has zero to do with signing guys. The money he brings in from MASN is insane. Baltimore is a small market city but the Os are not a small market team when you think about their history and the entirety of the DMV.
 
Lol don’t fall for that bullshit. Charging you more for tickets and a hot dog has zero to do with signing guys. The money he brings in from MASN is insane. Baltimore is a small market city but the Os are not a small market team when you think about their history and the entirety of the DMV.

Except we know all this information as a matter of public record. For instance we know for a fact that the Orioles made 67m last year off of 264m in revenue. If they were to spend every cent of that 67m, aka give up being profitable and just break even, they would have the 19th highest payroll in baseball and not enough to sign all of their young stars. It is not some grand conspiracy. We can look at the information. In order to do what you are suggesting the Orioles need to boost their revenue by about 30-45% relative to everyone else. That is a HUGE leap and that is the current financial situation again as a matter of public record.
 
Os fans I’m sorry you gotta deal with this shit. Angelos crying poor and already hinting at selling off stars
Am I the only one that finds it curious that the referenced article was published in the New York(skankys) Times? lol
 
Except we know all this information as a matter of public record. For instance we know for a fact that the Orioles made 67m last year off of 264m in revenue. If they were to spend every cent of that 67m, aka give up being profitable and just break even, they would have the 19th highest payroll in baseball and not enough to sign all of their young stars. It is not some grand conspiracy. We can look at the information. In order to do what you are suggesting the Orioles need to boost their revenue by about 30-45% relative to everyone else. That is a HUGE leap and that is the current financial situation again as a matter of public record.
holy Stockholm syndrome my guy, come on now. Angelos net worth is 3 Billion and you think the burden should be on fans to pay more??
 
holy Stockholm syndrome my guy, come on now. Angelos net worth is 3 Billion and you think the burden should be on fans to pay more??
None of that refutes a single point I made. Your argument basically started with, "there is so much money do not believe anything being said," so I looked up the public and showed that no there is not. Now your argument is "he is worth a lot so he should operate the Orioles at a loss" which is an argument that simply does not hold up. No owner of anything goes "well I am worth enough so I will operate this at a loss with no real way to fix that" unless it is a charitable venture and running a sports team is not a charitable venture.

I checked the Orioles revenue. I checked their operating income, and I checked what it would cost to sign the young stars. If you think any of that is wrong feel free to point out what but as it stands if they are going to do all of that and even break even they need to boost revenue by 30-45%.
 
None of that refutes a single point I made. Your argument basically started with, "there is so much money do not believe anything being said," so I looked up the public and showed that no there is not. Now your argument is "he is worth a lot so he should operate the Orioles at a loss" which is an argument that simply does not hold up. No owner of anything goes "well I am worth enough so I will operate this at a loss with no real way to fix that" unless it is a charitable venture and running a sports team is not a charitable venture.

I checked the Orioles revenue. I checked their operating income, and I checked what it would cost to sign the young stars. If you think any of that is wrong feel free to point out what but as it stands if they are going to do all of that and even break even they need to boost revenue by 30-45%.
They can boost revenue(fill the seats, sell merchandise, etc.) by putting a consistently high quality squad on the field. Might have to eat a few years of losses to do it, but you have to break a few eggs to bake a good cake.
 
They can boost revenue(fill the seats, sell merchandise, etc.) by putting a consistently high quality squad on the field. Might have to eat a few years of losses to do it, but you have to break a few eggs to bake a good cake.
Right now the Orioles are the best team in the AL, 2nd best record in baseball, and they have 22nd best attendance in baseball, and 10th of 15 in the AL, to show for it. Granted attendance is up 24%, higher than the MLB average 9%, but that still does not reach the level to come anywhere close to the big teams, who in order to crack into the top 10 they would need an attendance boost of 50% on top of what they already have.

Also as a counter to your claim, Tampa has been consistently good for years now, though they have a random off year here and there, and they are 27th. There is no evidence that if they just spent money, then they would suddenly gain the extra 100m+ in revenue they would need to keep the team together.

Now it is possible with the renovations, and if they can actually do something about the city to make people willing to go there, that something like that could boost attendance, but I have not found an example of a team in MLB that went from the bottom of attendance to the top tier just by having a good product.
 
Right now the Orioles are the best team in the AL, 2nd best record in baseball, and they have 22nd best attendance in baseball, and 10th of 15 in the AL, to show for it. Granted attendance is up 24%, higher than the MLB average 9%, but that still does not reach the level to come anywhere close to the big teams, who in order to crack into the top 10 they would need an attendance boost of 50% on top of what they already have.

Also as a counter to your claim, Tampa has been consistently good for years now, though they have a random off year here and there, and they are 27th. There is no evidence that if they just spent money, then they would suddenly gain the extra 100m+ in revenue they would need to keep the team together.

Now it is possible with the renovations, and if they can actually do something about the city to make people willing to go there, that something like that could boost attendance, but I have not found an example of a team in MLB that went from the bottom of attendance to the top tier just by having a good product.

lol…… not a claim, just facts. There’s only 1 way “big market teams” become that way and that’s to be consistently solid for many years. Pretty simple, consistently shitty teams don’t generate top income. And you can’t be consistently solid unless you invest in your team.
 
lol…… not a claim, just facts. There’s only 1 way “big market teams” become that way and that’s to be consistently solid for many years. Pretty simple, consistently shitty teams don’t generate top income. And you can’t be consistently solid unless you invest in your team.

Not really. The Mets have been awful forever but are still a big market team. The same can be said of the Knicks though the NBA is capped. Now there is a correlation between being a big market and winning but that is because there is a correlation between spending lots of money and winning in baseball. What makes a big market a big market is the size of the market. Texas is a huge market. New York is a huge market. Chicago and California, especially LA, are huge locations with huge markets. Baltimore is not really that big. It is not a huge market. It also competes with DC for market share in a tightly packed area.
 
Not really. The Mets have been awful forever but are still a big market team. The same can be said of the Knicks though the NBA is capped. Now there is a correlation between being a big market and winning but that is because there is a correlation between spending lots of money and winning in baseball. What makes a big market a big market is the size of the market. Texas is a huge market. New York is a huge market. Chicago and California, especially LA, are huge locations with huge markets. Baltimore is not really that big. It is not a huge market. It also competes with DC for market share in a tightly packed area.

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Not really. The Mets have been awful forever but are still a big market team. The same can be said of the Knicks though the NBA is capped. Now there is a correlation between being a big market and winning but that is because there is a correlation between spending lots of money and winning in baseball. What makes a big market a big market is the size of the market. Texas is a huge market. New York is a huge market. Chicago and California, especially LA, are huge locations with huge markets. Baltimore is not really that big. It is not a huge market. It also competes with DC for market share in a tightly packed area.
The reason I put “big market” in quotes was to show how teams without the geographic and/or population market support reach popularity outside of their traditional market. Believe me, we keep a solid team with guys like Gunner, Adley, Jason, Colton, Jackson, etc. the stadium will be full, and the fan base wide and large.
 
The reason I put “big market” in quotes was to show how teams without the geographic and/or population market support reach popularity outside of their traditional market. Believe me, we keep a solid team with guys like Gunner, Adley, Jason, Colton, Jackson, etc. the stadium will be full, and the fan base wide and large.
Then why isnt it full now? Those guys are all on the team, and the team is the best team in the AL, they can only fill up half the stadium. What historical basis is there for a team, that is not new to a city, going from low tier attendance to top tier attendance? Tampa Bay has been very good for the past 15 years, having been to two world series and only having 4 losing seasons with none of them being awful, and still they cant get people to go to their games.

Now I am not saying it is impossible but that it is going to take a big investment into the area to grow the team. Those are the sorts of things that move the needle which is what the stadium deal is going to be about. The team wants the investment and the city wants assurances that the team will be here in 20 years. Ideally also would be getting the city cleaned up so people are more willing to actually go to games because I know a lot of people who will not go to games because of what a mess the city is.
 
Then why isnt it full now? Those guys are all on the team, and the team is the best team in the AL, they can only fill up half the stadium. What historical basis is there for a team, that is not new to a city, going from low tier attendance to top tier attendance? Tampa Bay has been very good for the past 15 years, having been to two world series and only having 4 losing seasons with none of them being awful, and still they cant get people to go to their games.

Now I am not saying it is impossible but that it is going to take a big investment into the area to grow the team. Those are the sorts of things that move the needle which is what the stadium deal is going to be about. The team wants the investment and the city wants assurances that the team will be here in 20 years. Ideally also would be getting the city cleaned up so people are more willing to actually go to games because I know a lot of people who will not go to games because of what a mess the city is.
Stop using Tampa Bay as an example lol they are a horrible comparison.
 
Fans want to know they have a commitment by ownership to maintain excellence. We’ve been shit on for too many years.

Definitely need a city gov that wants to get serious about taking back the Inner Harbor from the scum bag zombies.
 
Right now the Orioles are the best team in the AL, 2nd best record in baseball, and they have 22nd best attendance in baseball, and 10th of 15 in the AL, to show for it. Granted attendance is up 24%, higher than the MLB average 9%, but that still does not reach the level to come anywhere close to the big teams, who in order to crack into the top 10 they would need an attendance boost of 50% on top of what they already have.

Also as a counter to your claim, Tampa has been consistently good for years now, though they have a random off year here and there, and they are 27th. There is no evidence that if they just spent money, then they would suddenly gain the extra 100m+ in revenue they would need to keep the team together.

Now it is possible with the renovations, and if they can actually do something about the city to make people willing to go there, that something like that could boost attendance, but I have not found an example of a team in MLB that went from the bottom of attendance to the top tier just by having a good product.
Well, couple things here:
a) raising ticket prices isn't the end of the world. If you consistently put a product on the field that's worth watching, like many of the big market teams do, fans will pay a higher price for tickets. Willfully. That's pretty universally true.

b) Tampa (and Florida in general, quite frankly), in your example, struggles in two aspects. One, they rarely have any actual "star" players. They have a roster full of very good players, but nobody that the fanbase can get behind, because they won't be there long enough to get invested in. Star players is what drive people to come to the stadium.
Second, and most importantly, Tampa is basically a really shitty shorts town across the board. They've never really supported baseball at all, the stadium is in St. Pete, which is effectively an old person's village, and frankly they never support the Bucs that much either before Brady got there.
In most situations, teams attendance will rise and fall with the product on the field. See places like Kansas City, Cleveland, Houston, etc. Houston's attendance was putrid in their "rebuilding" years. That's a pretty big market with lots of $ to spend. KC stadium was full during the brief period they were WS contenders (and winners).

c) It's a major fallacy to suggest the team can't operate in the short term at a loss. They certainly can. 10 teams had negative operating income in 2022 alone. Some of them with very large amounts of negative operating income. It's not a requirement of the business that they be profitable every year. That's an Angelos choice.

d) Raising ticket prices isn't the only way to generate higher revenue. In fact, it's not even the best way. The best way would be either to put a product out on the field that MASN will actually pay you more $ to broadcast for, or create/spin-off into your own RSN.
The Yankees did almost $400M in revenue more than the Orioles last year. Gate receipts were about $250M of that, which is substantial. Orioles will never get to the gate receipt level of the Yankees due to pricing and just lack of brand name, but they can bridge the gap.
The other $150M is the difference between what the YES network pays to broadcast Yankee games, and what MASN pays to broadcast Orioles games.

Because of the Orioles declining controlling interest in MASN, and the fact they're required to re-negotiate every five years with the Nationals for broadcast rights, they really don't have a good "deal" compared to how other markets have structured their RSN agreements.
 
Stop using Tampa Bay as an example lol they are a horrible comparison.
I mean there are not exactly a lot of examples of small market teams having sustained success. Tampa Bay is about the only one. Other teams have a year or two and then fall off hard. The reason being no one is willing to say "I will lose 50-100m per year under the hopes that maybe in 15 years I can get back to exactly where I am right now". Nobody is going to make that bet.
 
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