currently sitting on the 3rd biggest loss streak in the NFL
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The Random Thought Thread
- Thread starter The Greek
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currently sitting on the 3rd biggest loss streak in the NFL
redrum52
Hall of Famer
When we clean house next year man...
gtalk12
Ravens Ring of Honor
I don't have the subscription so I can only get bits and pieces at a time. They feel he isn't as creative or putting guys in spaces to succeed. I can understand that but to put it on him more so than what is going on with the other side of the football is beyond me. The claim is that Orr is calling the right stuff. The defense is playing tentatively and they are scared of making the smallest mistakes.
This all sounds like coaching to me and the players maybe trying to protect someone and scapegoat the other.
I think it's all encompassing. Coaches don't trust the players. Players don't trust the coaches. Teammates don't trust their teammates. No mental fortitude in anyone. It's all trending toward a massive change in the offseason unless they figure it out and stack some wins here real soon.
UPennChem
Hall of Famer
But that's unnaceptable with a top 12 roster, year 3 OC, year 2 DC, year a million coach etc
Tank
Hall of Famer
Is this the article?
Kyle Goon: Which Ravens coordinator is in more trouble? It might be Todd Monken.
Kyle Goon
10/15/2025 2:37 p.m. EDTchat_bubble
Amid the little fires everywhere for this Ravens team, it’s worth taking a careful look at who is holding the water hoses.
For defensive coordinator Zach Orr, there are many people around the franchise attempting to douse the flames.
Players leap to his support, claiming it’s on them to execute his vision. Coach John Harbaugh staunchly sticks by his side, saying “there’s no obvious move” going into the bye that makes the team better, though many fans would happily see Orr lose his job. Chuck Pagano, the obvious interim candidate to succeed Orr if the Ravens fired him, said Tuesday: “[Orr is] a selfless guy, and he knows what he’s doing, so we all have to be better to help him be better at his job.”
The wagons are circled around Orr, whose defense has struggled more weeks than it has dominated in the 1 1/2 seasons since he was hired.
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Why, then, does it seem offensive coordinator Todd Monken — who oversaw record-breaking offenses in 2023 and 2024 — doesn’t nearly have the backing that Orr does?
It’s a question that keeps scratching around the back corridors of my brain as we spend the next week and a half poring over every aspect of the 1-5 Ravens in excruciating detail during the bye week. In a season on the brink, the offense has disappointed in the weeks since Lamar Jackson was sidelined with a hamstring injury. One of the most concerning aspects is how much a coordinator who was considered a head coaching candidate during the offseason appears to be an island castaway on his own team.
It feels like a warning bell. As much fan uproar as there has been over Orr, the underachieving offense and the lack of vocal, rah-rah support for Monken feels just as critical — if not more so.
Although Derrick Henry and Tyler Linderbaum have said the offense needs to execute better, they haven’t gone out of their way to defend their OC, even though they owe some of their best seasons to offenses he helped direct. Harbaugh has been far more critical of the offensive play-calling than of Orr’s shortcomings, perhaps a reflection of Orr’s age (33) and experience relative to the 59-year-old Monken, who seems more a finished product.
When asked Tuesday if Jackson, who typically holds on to the ball as long as any of the league’s passers, needs a quicker release when he returns, quarterbacks coach Tee Martin shot the question upstream: “Todd was just here [at the podium] before me — it’s kind of a question for him. But our job is to execute the plays that are called and do the best we can to get the ball out.”
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Oof.
To be clear, there is plenty of blame to go around on the offense and it would be reassuring to see more accountability there. Martin strained credulity when he said he thought quarterbacks Cooper Rush and Tyler Huntley prepared and played well. Wide receiver Zay Flowers has yet to speak on being involved in two fumbles that helped put the Rams game out of reach. The line continues to be a glaring weakness, and offensive line coach George Warhop sounded a bit too sunny when he said Andrew Vorhees and Daniel Faalele continue to improve.
But the biggest issue — which Jackson’s absence has revealed all too plainly — is that everything screeches to a stop without the two-time MVP. As much as it falls on everyone to fix that problem, Monken is saddled with the biggest responsibility.
Before last week, the Ravens hadn’t squeezed more than 50 rushing yards out of Henry in four straight games. An experienced, versatile group of pass catchers — including former Pro Bowlers DeAndre Hopkins, Mark Andrews and Flowers — is being dramatically underutilized (only Flowers averages more than 30 yards per game).
The play calls on short yardage and in the red zone leave a lot to be desired. Several times, the Ravens have been stonewalled with goal-to-go despite multiple downs available, making them one of the worst red-zone teams (44.4% touchdown rate) after leading the NFL last season (74%).
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The regression feels steeper than personnel losses. The team has been playing without fullback Pat Ricard all season and Jackson in the last 2 1/2 games, but should the drop-off be this big given all the available talent? The defense is ravaged, forced to do more with less — meanwhile, the offense has playmakers healthy and available but is not getting the most from them.
“For one, we can certainly scheme it better,” Monken said. “I say this all the time. You guys get tired of me saying it: Scheme it better, call it better and execute it better. That’s really what it comes down to.”
It feels notable that Monken seems to be getting less shielding than his defensive counterpart. There’s only so much that can be understood about team dynamics from outside the Ravens’ meeting rooms, but the surface appearance of an OC struggling to rally his unit the way his defensive counterpart has seemed to strikes me as odd, to say the least.
Read More
As Ravens head into bye week, how hot is coordinator Zach Orr’s seat?
Oct 12, 2025Monken has earned more than enough leeway to fix it, given his track record in 2023 and 2024 and that his offense averaged 37 points per game in the first three weeks of the season. It may be the burden of the sky-high expectations the coordinator set in his previous seasons — if this Ravens group fails to even creep close to that production, it will feel like a colossal failure.
Monken said he feels the offense hasn’t lost its collective focus on the practice field, even if that’s what we’ve all seen on Sundays.
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“I have not seen that. I have not seen that at all,” he said. “That’s where the frustrating part is — when you’re going on the field and you’re not getting the results that are desired.”
High expectations are what these Ravens signed up for. Even if the game feels a bit unfair, Monken has to step things up in the face of adversity — or else watch what he’s built continue to burn down.
I don't disagree, which is why I think heads roll if it doesn't turn around. Too much talent to be this bad.
I am full on speculating here, but I feel like being a SB favorite for the last 3 years and continually not getting it done has worn guys down and it's reached a breaking point that I'm not sure they can recover from.
gtalk12
Ravens Ring of Honor
Is this the article?
Kyle Goon: Which Ravens coordinator is in more trouble? It might be Todd Monken.
Kyle Goon
10/15/2025 2:37 p.m. EDTchat_bubble
Coordinator Todd Monken oversaw record-setting Ravens offenses in 2023 and 2024, but this season has been a different story for multiple reasons. (Ulysses Muñoz/The Banner)
Amid the little fires everywhere for this Ravens team, it’s worth taking a careful look at who is holding the water hoses.
For defensive coordinator Zach Orr, there are many people around the franchise attempting to douse the flames.
Players leap to his support, claiming it’s on them to execute his vision. Coach John Harbaugh staunchly sticks by his side, saying “there’s no obvious move” going into the bye that makes the team better, though many fans would happily see Orr lose his job. Chuck Pagano, the obvious interim candidate to succeed Orr if the Ravens fired him, said Tuesday: “[Orr is] a selfless guy, and he knows what he’s doing, so we all have to be better to help him be better at his job.”
The wagons are circled around Orr, whose defense has struggled more weeks than it has dominated in the 1 1/2 seasons since he was hired.
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Why, then, does it seem offensive coordinator Todd Monken — who oversaw record-breaking offenses in 2023 and 2024 — doesn’t nearly have the backing that Orr does?
It’s a question that keeps scratching around the back corridors of my brain as we spend the next week and a half poring over every aspect of the 1-5 Ravens in excruciating detail during the bye week. In a season on the brink, the offense has disappointed in the weeks since Lamar Jackson was sidelined with a hamstring injury. One of the most concerning aspects is how much a coordinator who was considered a head coaching candidate during the offseason appears to be an island castaway on his own team.
It feels like a warning bell. As much fan uproar as there has been over Orr, the underachieving offense and the lack of vocal, rah-rah support for Monken feels just as critical — if not more so.
Although Derrick Henry and Tyler Linderbaum have said the offense needs to execute better, they haven’t gone out of their way to defend their OC, even though they owe some of their best seasons to offenses he helped direct. Harbaugh has been far more critical of the offensive play-calling than of Orr’s shortcomings, perhaps a reflection of Orr’s age (33) and experience relative to the 59-year-old Monken, who seems more a finished product.
When asked Tuesday if Jackson, who typically holds on to the ball as long as any of the league’s passers, needs a quicker release when he returns, quarterbacks coach Tee Martin shot the question upstream: “Todd was just here [at the podium] before me — it’s kind of a question for him. But our job is to execute the plays that are called and do the best we can to get the ball out.”
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Oof.
To be clear, there is plenty of blame to go around on the offense and it would be reassuring to see more accountability there. Martin strained credulity when he said he thought quarterbacks Cooper Rush and Tyler Huntley prepared and played well. Wide receiver Zay Flowers has yet to speak on being involved in two fumbles that helped put the Rams game out of reach. The line continues to be a glaring weakness, and offensive line coach George Warhop sounded a bit too sunny when he said Andrew Vorhees and Daniel Faalele continue to improve.
But the biggest issue — which Jackson’s absence has revealed all too plainly — is that everything screeches to a stop without the two-time MVP. As much as it falls on everyone to fix that problem, Monken is saddled with the biggest responsibility.
Before last week, the Ravens hadn’t squeezed more than 50 rushing yards out of Henry in four straight games. An experienced, versatile group of pass catchers — including former Pro Bowlers DeAndre Hopkins, Mark Andrews and Flowers — is being dramatically underutilized (only Flowers averages more than 30 yards per game).
The play calls on short yardage and in the red zone leave a lot to be desired. Several times, the Ravens have been stonewalled with goal-to-go despite multiple downs available, making them one of the worst red-zone teams (44.4% touchdown rate) after leading the NFL last season (74%).
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The regression feels steeper than personnel losses. The team has been playing without fullback Pat Ricard all season and Jackson in the last 2 1/2 games, but should the drop-off be this big given all the available talent? The defense is ravaged, forced to do more with less — meanwhile, the offense has playmakers healthy and available but is not getting the most from them.
“For one, we can certainly scheme it better,” Monken said. “I say this all the time. You guys get tired of me saying it: Scheme it better, call it better and execute it better. That’s really what it comes down to.”
It feels notable that Monken seems to be getting less shielding than his defensive counterpart. There’s only so much that can be understood about team dynamics from outside the Ravens’ meeting rooms, but the surface appearance of an OC struggling to rally his unit the way his defensive counterpart has seemed to strikes me as odd, to say the least.
Read More
As Ravens head into bye week, how hot is coordinator Zach Orr’s seat?
Oct 12, 2025
Monken has earned more than enough leeway to fix it, given his track record in 2023 and 2024 and that his offense averaged 37 points per game in the first three weeks of the season. It may be the burden of the sky-high expectations the coordinator set in his previous seasons — if this Ravens group fails to even creep close to that production, it will feel like a colossal failure.
Monken said he feels the offense hasn’t lost its collective focus on the practice field, even if that’s what we’ve all seen on Sundays.
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“I have not seen that. I have not seen that at all,” he said. “That’s where the frustrating part is — when you’re going on the field and you’re not getting the results that are desired.”
High expectations are what these Ravens signed up for. Even if the game feels a bit unfair, Monken has to step things up in the face of adversity — or else watch what he’s built continue to burn down.
No, its the Baltimore Sun. Brian Wacker wrote it. He says he spoke to 25 sources
I was coming to ask for it too. Someone hook us up!
Tank
Hall of Famer
What’s wrong with the Ravens? Inside a Super Bowl favorite’s stunning slide.
By Brian Wacker | [email protected], Josh Tolentino | [email protected], Sam Cohn | [email protected] and Sam Jane | [email protected]
UPDATED: October 20, 2025 at 11:20 AM EDT
The Ravens’ 1-5 start has the franchise in last place in the AFC North. Players spoke to The Baltimore Sun about what’s going wrong within the locker room. (Kevin Richardson/Staff illustration)
Ravens safety Kyle Hamilton gazed up in disbelief at the scoreboard inside Highmark Stadium, gobsmacked by what he saw and physically ill from what had transpired.
He didn’t know it then, but the path was etched from that very first game of the season.
Baltimore’s historic collapse last month in Orchard Park, New York, where Buffalo Bills quarterback Josh Allen threw for nearly 400 yards and erased a 15-point deficit in the final minutes, was dismaying. It was also an unwelcome tone-setter. The emotional toll of the shocking 41-40 defeat spilled over into the performances in the weeks that have followed and, eventually, into a roiling speech by Hamilton behind closed doors inside the Ravens’ training facility in Owings Mills.
“It was that Bills game that put a beating on us mentally where it felt like everything was ending, even though it was the first game,” one veteran player who spoke on the condition of anonymity told The Baltimore Sun. “When we have so much time to recover, such a long season, and we let that carry over.”
Following a stunning 1-5 start to a Ravens season — tied for worst in the franchise’s 30-year history — that was expected to end in a rain of purple confetti, the once-Super Bowl favorite is on the brink.
The Sun spoke with more than 25 sources in and around the Ravens to gain a better understanding of what’s really wrong with a team laden with All-Pro and Pro Bowl talent, led on offense by a two-time NFL Most Valuable Player in quarterback Lamar Jackson and a defense that just two seasons ago was among the league’s elite. Most of those who spoke to The Sun came from inside the locker room, and some were granted anonymity so they could speak freely without fear of retribution. A few league sources also offered a perspective on the team’s struggles.
The discussions provided a revealing view of an offense that is frustrated with a lack of creativity, a defense that has played tentatively and is scared to make even the smallest mistake, and a group of veterans and rookies alike who have struggled to find joy in their work.
Particularly stark has been the drop-off from a team that just a year ago became the first in NFL history to pass for at least 4,000 yards and rush for at least 3,000 in the same season. From players to coaches, there has been an acknowledgment of a lack of rhythm among the offense.
Jackson’s hamstring injury, which knocked him out of a Week 4 showdown with the Kansas City Chiefs in the third quarter and sidelined him in embarrassing losses to the Houston Texans and Los Angeles Rams, has been a big factor. But even before he got hurt, there were indications something was amiss.
“It just feels different. I just don’t feel like guys are being put in positions to succeed with this offense,” one veteran offensive player told The Sun, aiming his criticism at offensive coordinator Todd Monken, now in his third year in Baltimore.
Asked what he meant, the player said, “It’s freakin’ Lamar Jackson, how can you not find ways to have success with him? But I’m pretty sure if you put [Chiefs quarterback] Patrick Mahomes out there for us right now, the same things would be happening.”
‘Everybody catches up to you in this league’
The numbers bear that out. After leading the NFL in yards per game and ranking third in scoring last season, the Ravens ranked 21st in yards and 13th in points through their first six games this year. They plummeted from No. 1 in red zone scoring (85%) in 2024 to 15th this year (40.6%). Baltimore has also turned the ball over 10 times, one shy of all of last season’s total. Players and coaches have acknowledged a lack of consistency.“Three years ago, we had a new OC, new DC,” another veteran offensive player said. “Teams didn’t have any film on us. Now, they’ve seen everything that we’ve done, so we have to be more creative and put guys in spaces [to succeed].”
Having so many playmakers on offense between running back Derrick Henry, receivers Zay Flowers, Rashod Bateman and DeAndre Hopkins, along with tight ends Mark Andrews and now Isaiah Likely, has been, in the eyes of Monken, “a good problem to have.” But to some of his players, sometimes it’s just a problem.
“It has pros and cons,” one longtime offensive player said. “You got so many guys you want to get the ball to, but then it can get confusing at times. You’ve got so many different personnels and plays for certain guys. I think, at times, it can be a little confusing.”
The issues extend beyond scheme.
“We got a lot of young guys around here,” one offensive player said. “They haven’t been around to build up battle scars, so it may get to them mentally, emotionally in their head. O-lineman, we have a lot of young guys, special teams, especially on defense right now.
“You’re already gonna have nerves regardless, and then if things aren’t going well you’re going to have the outside noise. It’s a lot stacked up against you.
“I think that’s the difference from the past — we had more mature teams.”
Talk is cheap
When the Ravens arrived at training camp in July, they spoke assertively about a singular goal: “We want to be the most feared unit in the league,” defensive coordinator Zach Orr said. Humphrey gave an impassioned speech about recovering a lost “standard.” The 2000 Ravens — Super Bowl champions, widely considered one of the best defenses ever — marked the mountaintop for a high-upside group laying out their goals from the season’s foothills.Fast forward six weeks into the regular season and the Ravens, who have been ravaged by injuries to several key starters, entered their bye week ranked last in the NFL in points allowed (32.3) and 29th in yards allowed (380.8) per game. Only two teams have fewer sacks and takeaways.
Maturity has been a point of contention on defense, too, with All-Pro cornerback Marlon Humphrey noting that coach John Harbaugh broached the topic in a team meeting just a week into the season.
Baltimore’s once-dominant defense has also played “soft,” according to one assistant coach from a rival team, in what has been a departure from the norm.
How did they fall so far, so fast?
“You can’t just talk about it,” veteran linebacker Kyle Van Noy said. “You got to do it.”
Orr, 33 and in his second year, has taken the brunt of the criticism for Baltimore’s defensive struggles. His seat warmed with each loss, but might have cooled a bit after what he called “the most intensity” they’ve played with all year in the team’s Week 6 loss to the Rams. Harbaugh has repeatedly defended Orr’s job. Players stand behind him “110%.” They say their lack of success is on them, not him.
It has led to extra walk-through sessions, extra meetings and extra position group meetings to “make sure knowledge of the playbook is good,” veteran defensive end Brent Urban told The Sun, adding that the quality of practices hasn’t translated to games. Others have shared that sentiment. “It’s not like we’re going in there just lollygagging and not doing our job,” Henry added.
“It’s just so many things,” Urban continued. “Just guys getting on the same page, it’s one thing here, one thing there, these little things that are really adding up.”
In an attempt to explain such a troubling trend, one player recalled one of four successful fourth-down conversions from the Chiefs game. The Ravens’ offense ran a play in practice that caught Orr’s defense by surprise. They didn’t stop it.
Kansas City ran that exact play.
Orr knew what was coming, schemed against it properly, and the Chiefs still converted.
“It’s hard for me to comprehend at times,” one veteran defensive player said. “The game is a different environment. If you go in there scared to make a mistake, you’re probably going to make a mistake. When the poor results keep happening, it’s almost like the pressure is building, and guys are more scared to make a mistake.
“A mistake’s not going to kill you. But these little mistakes all over the place continuing, it’s just like a snowball. It messes with you mentally.”
Added another offensive player: “It makes Z.O. look bad when he’s calling the right [stuff].”
‘There’s a lot going on’
Accountability in the locker room was also a pillar of past teams, and it has been a talking point this year.Rob Burnett, a defensive end for the Ravens from 1996 to 2001, said that if a player missed a meeting, they’d end up on a milk carton. If someone lagged behind in practice, Burnett and Tony Siragusa, two partners in crime along the defensive line, would drown their belongings in a lake. “We’re old school,” Burnett said.
Times are different now, but Harbaugh said accountability is “critical” and something “that we work on all the time.”
“I feel like we’re going to get great, great veteran leadership,” he said. “Nothing is going to be more important than that.”
Perhaps more impactful than perceived player accountability, injuries and the underwhelming play of key veterans have pushed inexperienced players into larger roles.
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Fourth-round rookie linebacker Teddye Buchanan wore the green dot as the primary play-caller, while first-round safety Malaki Starks fed communication in the secondary.
“When a contender has that many young players and rookies forced into real roles this fast,” one high-level NFL executive said, “it’s hard to mask.”
Starks acknowledged that he’s still feeling out his role, having “stepped into a [leadership] zone that I haven’t been in yet.” The rookie’s potential is undeniable. But the Ravens didn’t envision thrusting him into such a high-leverage role so quickly. “I mean, there’s a lot going on,” Starks said, “but it’s really just like a tunnel. I can only control what I can control.”
‘Get back to having fun’
Because of it all — what Hopkins, the 13-year veteran and three-time All-Pro wideout, aptly called “bad football” — the locker room looks different now, too.In the week leading up to the Sept. 28 loss to the Chiefs, punter Jordan Stout posted an Instagram story of Jackson sitting in front of a video game console, controller in hand, with the caption: “Hard at work.” It was a harmless, friendly jab. But two days later, the quarterback hobbled off the field at Arrowhead Stadium with a hamstring injury he suffered in another deflating 37-20 loss.
When the team returned to Owings Mills, the toys had disappeared.
The Ravens promptly removed several recreational staples from the locker room, including the basketball hoop near Jackson’s and Flowers’ stalls, the pingpong table that rookies Buchanan and Mike Green often battled on after practice, the once-popular cornhole boards, and yes, the video game consoles, often lit up with intense rounds of Super Smash Bros., that regularly drew small crowds of teammates late in the day.
Multiple players told The Sun the decision came from the coaching staff, who wanted to strip away distractions and have the team fully locked in amid its disappointing start. It’s not the first time they’ve done it. In previous seasons when the Ravens stumbled early, coaches leaned on similar tactics, dialing back locker-room freedoms in an effort to boost focus and reset the work environment.
From a player’s perspective, the recreational activities helped break up long days and allowed the locker room to breathe and relax, even for a moment, from an atmosphere that demands intense daily focus. Since the removal of the activities, the Ravens have lost two more games, extending their season-long losing streak to four.
The fun stuff is gone. The team is still searching for answers.
Only four teams in NFL history have started 1-5 and gone on to make the playoffs. For Baltimore, the belief in a turnaround feels paramount.
“The only worse thing is 0-6, so yes, it’s a big hole. We’re going to have to bounce back,” center Tyler Linderbaum said. “We have 11 games left to try to run the table.”
That kind of hope is often where teams either splinter or rally.
Amidst the worst stretch of his storied career — four straight games with fewer than 50 rushing yards paired with three early season fumbles — Henry gathered his teammates after a Friday practice leading into Baltimore’s Oct. 12 loss to the Rams. According to three players in attendance, he told teammates the only way they’d start winning games again is if they “get back to having fun.”
Henry’s message was simple. For a team stuck searching for itself, weighed down by its historic Week 1 collapse, Baltimore needed this bye week — a timely physical and emotional reset.
All that’s left is to see how they respond.
gtalk12
Ravens Ring of Honor
Yep. I think Tank might be able to lol
It feels like they are scapegoating Todd
UPennChem
Hall of Famer
I think the coaching has been bad on both sides of the ball and at HC for awhile and Lamar Jackson singularly has made so many problems go away by being so good. Then EDC ignores the important positions along both lines, you have a few injuries, and you're toast.
It's time to actually bring this team to the promised land. That's not gonna happen with Harbs, Orr, and Horton in particular. I think Monken couldddd be ok, but even he has a lot of problems
idk about the schematic stuff
but the fact that not even the rookies are finding joy playing football is a real worry with the culture
i get the fan lethargy with regards to regular season wins - but if players are feeling numb and not enjoying playing football and winning then there's a real cultural problem in the building that needs fixing
This is exactly how Billick went out back in the day too. The message in the locker room seems lost. There’s time to get it back, but it’s teetering on disaster.
UPennChem
Hall of Famer
What did I miss regarding the comment of the unhappy rookies?
UPennChem
Hall of Famer
Thanks! Not surprised that it's not a happy lockeroom. Just kinda sad tbh
Tank
Hall of Famer
The full story is in the Sun article posted earlier in this thread.