Joe Flacco

[Militant X 1]

What people tend to ignore is every team in our division played the same teams, albeit two teams. Joe may not be elite, but he’s not a bad qb like many are saying.

Perhaps, he's just not as good of a qb like many are saying either...

http://m.baltimoreravens.com/news/a...the-Same/b839130d-9283-4055-b2f6-9db94ba73854

Per article:

"But Flacco still lags far behind in production in the regular season. Flacco finished last season as the NFL's No. 25 rated passer at 80.1. [Alex] Smith, Brees, [Matthew] Stafford and Garoppolo all were in the top 10, and [Derek] Carr was No. 20. [Andrew] Luck missed the entire season with a shoulder injury."

https://twitter.com/SFY/status/961744465256841216

 

[K-Dog]

Quarterbacks are expensive. Period.
Quality quarterbacks are rare and even more expensive.

 

[The Raven]

Serious question here, are we getting good value for Flacco? For 5 years now Flacco has underperformed and crushed our cap, and we've missed the playoffs 4 out of 5 years. Are we just paying for experience?

I'll answer in two parts.

1. No, are not getting good value out of Flacco.
2. We're paying to have a solidified starter at QB and to not have to look for a new QB.

Teams will spend a sixth of their cap on QB if it means they have someone to suit up and if they don't have to look for someone. Wouldn't even be shocked if jersey sales were a factor in the decision to throw money at QBs. Flacco ain't even that good and you still see #5 jerseys everywhere. Just HAVING a solidified starter is a cash cow -- he doesn't even have to be good

 

[RL52TheGreatest]

If you saw the 2012 playoff Joe Flacco over the latter part of this season, I'd like to know where we can obtain a pair of those Rose Colored Glasses.

I never said I saw "2012 playoff Joe Flacco". His play did, however, start to resemble 2012 regular season form for me. The way he was moving around in the pocket towards the end of the year and taking more shots downfield was reminiscent of 2012. Definitely an encouraging sign going forward.

Even if Joes Yards Per Attempt did come up slightly from earlier in the season, he still posted his Career Worst Yards Per Attempt. Add to that when we needed him most, he crashed and burned in the Cincinnati finale with a 4.3 Yards Per Attempt, embarrassed more only by the meager 1.6 yards per attempt in the Jaguars game

Not sure how this is relevant to how Joe played later in the year when the first half of the season is going to skewer these numbers. Here's Joe's YPA for the last 5 games (inc. Cincinatti):

Wk 13 - DET: 7.47
Wk 14 - PIT: 7.69
Wk 15 - CLE: 6.86
Wk 16 - IND: 6.24
Wk 17 - CIN: 4.32

That's an average YPA of 6.52 for the last 5 games even with the clunker in Cincinatti included. And also, you shouldn't blame that Cinci game entirely on Joe because our WRs were dropping passes left and right in that game.

Lastly, when you look at some of the cakewalk games we had end of year, its really hard to make a case that "Joe Got Back". If he's passing your eye test, he's earning an F on many others.

Honestly, what the fuck is a "cakewalk" game in the NFL nowadays? Really tired of seeing people post this shit all the time. Some games should be easier than others, but if the team isn't prepared then they're going to get exposed most of the time. Flacco looked much improved regardless of who they were playing. Anyone who can't see that might need an eye test, literally.

 

[Adreme]

I like how people were just complaining about cherry picking and are now doing just that except even worse because they are actively ignoring why Joes YPA was low in that Cinci because otherwise it invalidates their entire point. 9 drops and wind so bad that any ball thrown up got caught in it were why the YPA were so low

 

[RavensMania]

I like how people were just complaining about cherry picking and are now doing just that except even worse because they are actively ignoring why Joes YPA was low in that Cinci because otherwise it invalidates their entire point. 9 drops and wind so bad that any ball thrown up got caught in it were why the YPA were so low

I agree with your point, but don’t mind it being included in the average. One can point this out as a reason for it being low though. Hell, he was the reason for the comeback, not the reason for being behind by so much.

 

[Adreme]

I agree with your point, but don’t mind it being included in the average. One can point this out as a reason for it being low though. Hell, he was the reason for the comeback, not the reason for being behind by so much.

Oh I'm fine with it being in the dataset but the conversation seemed to go "You can't just cherrypick games to say he is good BUT LOOK AT HOW BAD HE WAS AGAINST CINCI."

 

[RayRayRaven]

Well, there's always going to be optimists.

I will guarantee one thing however: We will be right back here in 2019, with JoeJoe rated in at about 25-28th in the league, with a YPA under 6.0, having missed the playoffs and he'll still have apologists.

Wk 13 - DET: 7.47
Wk 14 - PIT: 7.69
Wk 15 - CLE: 6.86
Wk 16 - IND: 6.24
Wk 17 - CIN: 4.32

That's an average YPA of 6.52 for the last 5 games even with the clunker in Cincinatti included. And also, you shouldn't blame that Cinci game entirely on Joe because our WRs were dropping passes left and right in that game.


Honestly, what the fuck is a "cakewalk" game in the NFL nowadays? .

You posted them
If you think JoeJoe went through a Murderer's row there with Detroit, No Shazier, Cleveland, Indy and the worst statistical offense in the league, that's your right.

I like how people were just complaining about cherry picking and are now doing just that except even worse because they are actively ignoring why Joes YPA was low in that Cinci because otherwise it invalidates their entire point. 9 drops and wind so bad that any ball thrown up got caught in it were why the YPA were so low

Just tune in next year. Same RayRayRaven Time, Same RayRayRaven critique.

 

[redrum52]

No other player can only go 5 good games and not expect VALID criticism, especially at the position he plays.

 

[BloodRaven]

every qb is gonna look like a trainwreck if you cherry pick their bad games and ignore the good games too...

So lets look at his production as a whole, 18tds 13ints and a QB rating of 80.4.

 

[RavensMania]

Oh I'm fine with it being in the dataset but the conversation seemed to go "You can't just cherrypick games to say he is good BUT LOOK AT HOW BAD HE WAS AGAINST CINCI."

This I agree with

 

[RavensMania]

So lets look at his production as a whole, 18tds 13ints and a QB rating of 80.4.

This doesn’t tell the whole story either and you know it,

 

[Adreme]

No other player can only go 5 good games and not expect VALID criticism, especially at the position he plays.

I mean now are we asking "Why does he not play as well injured or when being protected by the worst LT in last the 20 years (no that is not hyperbole)?" The jump in plays after the OLine got healthy (even if they had 3rd stringers on them) and Flacco got over his back injury which turned out to be worse than we actually thought was massive and obvious and you would have to be blind or ignorant not to see it.

 

[redrum52]

I mean now are we asking "Why does he not play as well injured or when being protected by the worst LT in last the 20 years (no that is not hyperbole)?" The jump in plays after the OLine got healthy (even if they had 3rd stringers on them) and Flacco got over his back injury which turned out to be worse than we actually thought was massive and obvious and you would have to be blind or ignorant not to see it.

As long you account for everyone else who plays poorly cause of injuries and because someone else didn't do their job. So when a wr #s are hurt cause of the ducks Joe throws or their yac is trash cause the passes are placed in horrible spots, be sure to mention that too.

 

[Adreme]

As long you account for everyone else who plays poorly cause of injuries and because someone else didn't do their job. So when a wr #s are hurt cause of the ducks Joe throws or their yac is trash cause the passes are placed in horrible spots, be sure to mention that too.

Perriman got hurt on a good throw due to an illegal hit to the head (which went uncalled). There was also the bang bang hit that Perriman dropped which I think he also got hurt on but was a good throw but the best timed hit I have seen in awhile to the point where even in slow motion I was not sure the first time I saw it whether the hit happened before the ball or not.

Maclin got hurt on something unrelated and played awful even before that.

Camp gets hurt because he is Michael Campanero and its what he does.

I am still waiting for these imaginary ducks that got people hurt but I am sure in your mind you believe they happened. I get it you have an irrational dislike not based in reality and like most people who have come to a conclusion before looking at facts you find the facts to back it up and the ignore the ones that do not.

The actual thing that happened on offense was the year started and Flacco was not good (injury), the line was not good(backups due to injury), the skill position players were not good (just playing badly). As the year went on Flacco got healthy and played better, the line got some cohesiveness and played better and that made the true weakness of the offense shine thru. The Ravens need some weapons on offense who can actually get separation. Its staggering just how bad they were at just winning there 1 on 1s. It was the universal constant.

 

[redrum52]

Perriman got hurt on a good throw due to an illegal hit to the head (which went uncalled). There was also the bang bang hit that Perriman dropped which I think he also got hurt on but was a good throw but the best timed hit I have seen in awhile to the point where even in slow motion I was not sure the first time I saw it whether the hit happened before the ball or not.

Maclin got hurt on something unrelated and played awful even before that.

Camp gets hurt because he is Michael Campanero and its what he does.

I am still waiting for these imaginary ducks that got people hurt but I am sure in your mind you believe they happened. I get it you have an irrational dislike not based in reality and like most people who have come to a conclusion before looking at facts you find the facts to back it up and the ignore the ones that do not.

The actual thing that happened on offense was the year started and Flacco was not good (injury), the line was not good(backups due to injury), the skill position players were not good (just playing badly). As the year went on Flacco got healthy and played better, the line got some cohesiveness and played better and that made the true weakness of the offense shine thru. The Ravens need some weapons on offense who can actually get separation. Its staggering just how bad they were at just winning there 1 on 1s. It was the universal constant.

Surprised you were able to type that with Flacco most likely occupying your hands.

I didn't say he threw them into injuries. Hurt #s (I meant their stats) so the first half of your rant is pointless. And where did you see me disagree with him needing more weapons? Maybe you should take your irrational need to defend poor play and pay attention. All I said was those other guys aren't all playing fully healthy and take those things into account when judging them too. Is it that difficult to grade on the same scale? but please continue...

 

[Adreme]

Surprised you were able to type that with Flacco most likely occupying your hands.

I didn't say he threw them into injuries. Hurt #s (I meant their stats) so the first half of your rant is pointless. And where did you see me disagree with him needing more weapons? Maybe you should take your irrational need to defend poor play and pay attention. All I said was those other guys aren't all playing fully healthy and take those things into account when judging them too. Is it that difficult to grade on the same scale? but please continue...

You did not understand the words I typed so I will try again. The reasons they are horrible are twofold, they could not win 1v1s at any point in the season and there hands were awful. Being injured did not cause 9 drops to happen in the final game. I could accept playing badly when injured which is why I layed off Camp a bit because when not injured he looked okay, when Moore actually catches the ball he looks okay but catching the ball is important.

How good the offense was towards the end of the year is not in dispute by anyone who can accept reality. The why also seems fairly obvious without much need to go deeper so the question is can the Ravens avoid losing the starting and backup guards for the reasonbefore they are 3 weeks into the year and can Flacco avoid a really bad injury. Getting better weapons is needed but not "panic mode" needed because the offense was good. Getting 1 starting quality weapon bringing back the line you have and adding 1 more starting quality guard and you easily have a top 10 offense.

I am one of the people who would not be mad if the Ravens once again drafted defense with 2 of there first 3 picks just because of that fact.

 

[redrum52]

You did not understand the words I typed so I will try again. The reasons they are horrible are twofold, they could not win 1v1s at any point in the season and there hands were awful. Being injured did not cause 9 drops to happen in the final game. I could accept playing badly when injured which is why I layed off Camp a bit because when not injured he looked okay, when Moore actually catches the ball he looks okay but catching the ball is important.

How good the offense was towards the end of the year is not in dispute by anyone who can accept reality. The why also seems fairly obvious without much need to go deeper so the question is can the Ravens avoid losing the starting and backup guards for the reasonbefore they are 3 weeks into the year and can Flacco avoid a really bad injury. Getting better weapons is needed but not "panic mode" needed because the offense was good. Getting 1 starting quality weapon bringing back the line you have and adding 1 more starting quality guard and you easily have a top 10 offense.

I am one of the people who would not be mad if the Ravens once again drafted defense with 2 of there first 3 picks just because of that fact.

Nice gloss over but whatever. And Wallace got separation a few times only to be under/over thrown on a few occasions that Bengals game. A few of those would have been easy TDS. So here AGAIN... when the guys are OPEN get them a good pass. Pass to Moore that resulted in a pick 6 was behind him as well.

I don't believe shit I saw at the end of last season because this seems to happen EVERY season recently. You can't half ass your way through regular season and just expect to make playoffs. We were also playing against a cake schedule last year. Yes, every team is a pro team, but are you going to tell me beating the Jaguars would be the same as beating the Browns? Most here spout off about the Patriots and having to play the AFC East, but when's the last time we sniffed a 13-14 win season? You can ignore that last parts if you weren't the one mentioning strength of schedule.

For the draft I'd like to go OL/OL/WR in any order with the first two picks, but obviously depends on who's available. Should try to grab at least 2 pass catchers in FA as well.

 

[Sledge Hammer]

Well, there's always going to be optimists.

I will guarantee one thing however: We will be right back here in 2019, with JoeJoe rated in at about 25-28th in the league, with a YPA under 6.0, having missed the playoffs and he'll still have apologists.



You posted them
If you think JoeJoe went through a Murderer's row there with Detroit, No Shazier, Cleveland, Indy and the worst statistical offense in the league, that's your right.



Just tune in next year. Same RayRayRaven Time, Same RayRayRaven critique.

I liked your post RayRay. Good points. I think you are honest and levelheaded on what you think. Unbiased opinions. And your posts are always funny and interesting. I laugh anyways. However bear with me for a minute here. I know when a QB was highest paid at his position upon signing he should be the playmaker and make players better. I get it. His first big contract was what the team shoulda done. His extension not so much. But QBs average or not are paid like elite. Teams need to do something about that.

And I know joe needs players around him to perform. And I wanna thrash him at times. However if we think about it a minute.. it’s not like we are asking for Gronk and Julio Jones. I’m only saying give him a modern offense that actually looks like it belongs in this century dude. I mean only competent route runners in their prime. Weapons that will acclimate and grow with joe and the offense in year 2 with the team. As opposed to losing one more step in year 2 and wondering if he will be any good the next year as he is a year older. How much more speed will he lose. That isn’t something a QB should be worrying about with his receivers. He should be worrying about taking the next step as he and his weapons acclimate and Learn tendencies and routes and fakes. Not how much slower will he get lol. That is ridiculous!! And management should be thrashed for that!!

I’m not saying sign Landry and Robinson. Give Joe Marqise Lee and Brice Butler. Young skilled WRs looking for opportunity to be primary prolific players. And if those players don’t breakout or their numbers spike. If joe can’t help them hit their potential. I’ll thrash joe more than anybody. Like I said only a modern offense that belongs in the modern era. Every QB needs somebody. lol

 

[Adreme]

Nice gloss over but whatever. And Wallace got separation a few times only to be under/over thrown on a few occasions that Bengals game. A few of those would have been easy TDS. So here AGAIN... when the guys are OPEN get them a good pass. Pass to Moore that resulted in a pick 6 was behind him as well.

I don't believe shit I saw at the end of last season because this seems to happen EVERY season recently. You can't half ass your way through regular season and just expect to make playoffs. We were also playing against a cake schedule last year. Yes, every team is a pro team, but are you going to tell me beating the Jaguars would be the same as beating the Browns? Most here spout off about the Patriots and having to play the AFC East, but when's the last time we sniffed a 13-14 win season? You can ignore that last parts if you weren't the one mentioning strength of schedule.

For the draft I'd like to go OL/OL/WR in any order with the first two picks, but obviously depends on who's available. Should try to grab at least 2 pass catchers in FA as well.

I feel like you do not remember the most important part of that Bengals game and that was how the wind caught EVERY ball that had any air under it which is why both teams resorted to very short passes to achieve success (well Ravens did that in 2nd half Bengals just were awful). The Ravens tried to force it downfield but every ball would get caught in the wind and thus inaccurate and was a waste of time. Good for Wallace getting open (though he was 3 of the 9 drops) but if its further than the ball can be accurately thrown in those conditions it does not matter.

If Wallace stays you cut Maclin sign a replacement for him and draft 1 guard to hopefully start and then you roll with that and boom you are set. Obviously replacing Howard would be nice but replacing a lot of players would be nice. If the board falls starting RT starting G starting WR then yay best draft ever but you play the cards you are dealt.