Joe Flacco

[ravenslord]

There is no doubt that drafting Jackson has made this a very interesting season. We all want to see Joe return to form, but wow, what if he takes us deep into the playoffs or all the way (unlikely, I know)? It's going to be hard to part ways with a proven winner.

What KC is doing is a major leap of faith. Their judgement on whether Mahomes is ready isn't based at all on actual play. Letting go of a known commodity (even though his is not one that ever brought them postseason success) is a definite risk. We'll see if we're confronted with the same decision.

Well Dilfer took us to a Super Bowl win though that defense was insane. Then next season we brin in a horrible Grbac!

I hope we are not that stupid if Flacco takes us far into the playoffs.

 

[RavenROC]

The decision they'll make on Flacco depends just as much on Lamar's play as it does Joe's. We could be sitting here 2 years from now with a couple deep playoff pushes from Joe and hear nothing but "Lamar isn't ready" out of camp.

 

[jboy19]

The decision they'll make on Flacco depends just as much on Lamar's play as it does Joe's. We could be sitting here 2 years from now with a couple deep playoff pushes from Joe and hear nothing but "Lamar isn't ready" out of camp.

The FO was upfront about Lamar having to wait a year or more. Flacco could be the starting QB for 2 more years depending on how things go. The urge to make Lamar the starter clearly is not as strong inside the organization as it is outside.

Every media source thats been at Ravens practice has reported that Flacco and RG3 are well ahead of Lamar (which is understandable for a lot of reasons) and I don't see any real reason to believe that Lamar is going to challenge Flacco as a starter this year.

 

[RavenROC]

Right, my point is that restructuring Joe and having him as our QB for 4 more years isn't out of the question. Lamar Jackson is relatively cheap for the potential he offers, and they can lock up him through 2023. If they don't see what they want in him before the "Joe Flacco Decision" is made, they'll keep Joe with a restructured contract and push off the decision on Lamar.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

The FO was upfront about Lamar having to wait a year or more. Flacco could be the starting QB for 2 more years depending on how things go. The urge to make Lamar the starter clearly is not as strong inside the organization as it is outside.

Every media source thats been at Ravens practice has reported that Flacco and RG3 are well ahead of Lamar (which is understandable for a lot of reasons) and I don't see any real reason to believe that Lamar is going to challenge Flacco as a starter this year.

I think it’s unfair to leave out “as a passer” in those reports. They are far ahead as a passer, and that is disregarding Lamar’s electric ability with his feet which is enough on its own to be a decent nfl starter at worst.

I fully prefer Lamar sit for at least a year, preferably 2 unless we get a bomb ass trade offer for joe, let him become a true nfl passer(he isn’t that far off honestly), let him get hungry, let him mature physically some more and gradually pack on 10 lbs, get the playbook down, get the muscle memory going, and come out and light the league on fire, BUT if it came down to it, I would feel ok with Jackson starting in a pinch, I wouldn’t be worried about his ability, just his development, when you’re thrown into the fire then game prep becomes crucial and developmental reps for the finer parts take a backseat. He has excellent field vision and decision making to the point that I don’t think he would go out and cost us games, and if he has to start at any point as a rookie that’s all you can really ask of him

 

[rossihunter2]

Right, my point is that restructuring Joe and having him as our QB for 4 more years isn't out of the question. Lamar Jackson is relatively cheap for the potential he offers, and they can lock up him through 2023. If they don't see what they want in him before the "Joe Flacco Decision" is made, they'll keep Joe with a restructured contract and push off the decision on Lamar.

The decision really though has to happen within 3 years not 2 because after 3 years is when we have to pick up or not pick up Lamar’s 5th year option

And that means that Joe’s existing contract covers that timeframe - if we extend joe we make him uncuttable for another couple of years so there’s no way he gets an extension at this point

 

[rossihunter2]

I think it’s unfair to leave out “as a passer” in those reports. They are far ahead as a passer, and that is disregarding Lamar’s electric ability with his feet which is enough on its own to be a decent nfl starter at worst.

I fully prefer Lamar sit for at least a year, preferably 2 unless we get a bomb ass trade offer for joe, let him become a true nfl passer(he isn’t that far off honestly), let him get hungry, let him mature physically some more and gradually pack on 10 lbs, get the playbook down, get the muscle memory going, and come out and light the league on fire, BUT if it came down to it, I would feel ok with Jackson starting in a pinch, I wouldn’t be worried about his ability, just his development, when you’re thrown into the fire then game prep becomes crucial and developmental reps for the finer parts take a backseat. He has excellent field vision and decision making to the point that I don’t think he would go out and cost us games, and if he has to start at any point as a rookie that’s all you can really ask of him

Which is why I don’t think RGIII makes the 53 - because Jackson offers good field reading and understanding straight away and also is better than RGIII as a runner already so all RGIII offers right now is a better spiral on his balls but Jackson probably has a bigger arm anyway

 

[RavenROC]

The decision really though has to happen within 3 years not 2 because after 3 years is when we have to pick up or not pick up Lamar’s 5th year option

And that means that Joe’s existing contract covers that timeframe - if we extend joe we make him uncuttable for another couple of years so there’s no way he gets an extension at this point

I hadn't really considered the nuances of that timing or his contract numbers, but I could see them restructuring the final couple years for Joe, converting some of his money into signing bonus and then spreading his hit out. Someone with more savvy on the contract might squash this, just thinking out loud though.

There has to be a middle ground between

1. cutting Joe in 2019 or 2020 and rolling with Lamar
2. Lamar is a complete bust and we are sitting here empty handed in 2021

Not that anyone is suggesting the latter, but somewhere in these numbers must be a situation where we can keep Joe around for 3-4 instead of 1-2 in the event Lamar isn't progressing as fast as we had hoped, and I trust the Ravens know what that is.

 

[rossihunter2]

I hadn't really considered the nuances of that timing or his contract numbers, but I could see them restructuring the final couple years for Joe, converting some of his money into signing bonus and then spreading his hit out. Someone with more savvy on the contract might squash this, just thinking out loud though.

There has to be a middle ground between

1. cutting Joe in 2019 or 2020 and rolling with Lamar
2. Lamar is a complete bust and we are sitting here empty handed in 2021

Not that anyone is suggesting the latter, but somewhere in these numbers must be a situation where we can keep Joe around for 3-4 instead of 1-2 in the event Lamar isn't progressing as fast as we had hoped, and I trust the Ravens know what that is.

We won’t be empty handed unless they both suck - worst case is that Lamar doesn’t pan out and we have to repay joe as the new CBA comes in (when there will likely be a lot more cap space available)

And btw a restructure does the exact opposite of evening out his cap hits at this point - his salary is fairly even now and a restructure guarantees joe is on the roster next year

The only move that would make financial sense would be an extension - but that would indicate we don’t think Lamar is the real deal and that we are fairly sure joe is gonna be our qb for beyond 2020

So basically the only thing we can do at the moment is leave everything as is - joe starts this year and then we leverage whatever play he gives us into a trade opportunity and if that doesn’t work out we have an open competition next year

 

[All_black_everything]

While some feel Flacco will be here beyond next season. I feel Eric's plan is to take a page out the Chiefs playbook and have Flacco return some of if not all of the draft capital we gave up for our future qb. Just as the Chiefs did, trade our vet after a year of our rookie learning. Plus I think they keep RG3 on the 53 to backup Lamar in the future.

 

[Tank]

While some feel Flacco will be here beyond next season. I feel Eric's plan is to take a page out the Chiefs playbook and have Flacco return some of if not all of the draft capital we gave up for our future qb. Just as the Chiefs did, trade our vet after a year of our rookie learning. Plus I think they keep RG3 on the 53 to backup Lamar in the future.

While these things are certainly possible I think they are highly unlikely. Griffin was originally signed as a cheap replacement for Mallet, not a mentor as some think and now he will be expendable after the drafting of Lamar. I seriously doubt they carry 3 QBs. Hopefully Griffin catches on elsewhere as he’s working hard and deserves the shot.

The Chiefs/Mahomes analogy really doesn’t jive either. Alex Smith was a 5th year FA signing that gave them some success, but never got them over the hump in the post season, while Flacco is a proven winner in tournament games. Also the Chiefs paid a much higher price(1st, 3rd, 2018 1st) for Mahomes than did the Ravens for Lamar(2nd, 2019 2nd). I think if there’s any chance at all for Lamar to be the Ravens starting QB prior to 2020 it would have to involve a major injury. Also if Joe gets back to form the next couple of years it could be a longer period before Jackson would get the chance to start.

 

[rossihunter2]

While some feel Flacco will be here beyond next season. I feel Eric's plan is to take a page out the Chiefs playbook and have Flacco return some of if not all of the draft capital we gave up for our future qb. Just as the Chiefs did, trade our vet after a year of our rookie learning. Plus I think they keep RG3 on the 53 to backup Lamar in the future.

it just doesnt make much sense that RGIII would be here next year - he's a backup and not known to be a mentor (maybe he'll be a great josh mccown type figure but there's no evidence of that yet in his career) and he's only on a 1 year deal - if we really want him back next year we'd surely sign him to a longer term deal

i wouldnt be surprised if he's on the roster this year (if lamar isnt ready then he isnt ready) but it doesnt make a huge amount of sense for us to re-sign him unless the worst comes to the worst and he has to hit the field (and impresses)

 

[Tank]

it just doesnt make much sense that RGIII would be here next year - he's a backup and not known to be a mentor (maybe he'll be a great josh mccown type figure but there's no evidence of that yet in his career) and he's only on a 1 year deal - if we really want him back next year we'd surely sign him to a longer term deal

i wouldnt be surprised if he's on the roster this year (if lamar isnt ready then he isnt ready) but it doesnt make a huge amount of sense for us to re-sign him unless the worst comes to the worst and he has to hit the field (and impresses)

I’m not sure they place much importance on their backup being “ready”. Seems they’ve usually resigned themselves to making do with whoever is there when it comes to a backup for Joe. And they had pretty decent success with starting Flacco as a rookie when Troy Smith went down, so there’s that. There’s such a need for depth at so many positions that it seems highly unlikely they carry 3 QBs. Too bad they can’t just hide Lamar somewhere for a couple of years. lol

 

[rossihunter2]

I’m not sure they place much importance on their backup being “ready”. Seems they’ve usually resigned themselves to making do with whoever is there when it comes to a backup for Joe. And they had pretty decent success with starting Flacco as a rookie when Troy Smith went down, so there’s that. There’s such a need for depth at so many positions that it seems highly unlikely they carry 3 QBs. Too bad they can’t just hide Lamar somewhere for a couple of years. lol

i agree with that but its a slightly different situation when they dont care particularly about the development of the backup qb and just throw them in there - with lamar they may decide to carry RGIII to protect him

i dont like that as a vein of thought but i could see how the coaches could talk themselves into it

that being said i think Lamar is going to be ready enough that RGIII will be competing vs players at other positions to make it onto the 53 and im not sure he'll win

 

[Tank]

i agree with that but its a slightly different situation when they dont care particularly about the development of the backup qb and just throw them in there - with lamar they may decide to carry RGIII to protect him

i dont like that as a vein of thought but i could see how the coaches could talk themselves into it

that being said i think Lamar is going to be ready enough that RGIII will be competing vs players at other positions to make it onto the 53 and im not sure he'll win

hmmmm........which is the reason I mentioned Flacco who I think at the time he was drafted they saw as the guy they would develop to be their franchise QB. lol But point taken, Lamar is not as “NFL ready” as Joe was as a rookie.

 

[Edgar]

View attachment 1091
Really nice play by Joe. Nice throw against cover 3 (out of Tampa 2) just about the only place it would fit. Nice job identifying the coverage and a real pretty throw. Joe makes this look easy. It would have been a conversion from 3rd and 16.

 

[RavensMania]

i agree with that but its a slightly different situation when they dont care particularly about the development of the backup qb and just throw them in there - with lamar they may decide to carry RGIII to protect him

i dont like that as a vein of thought but i could see how the coaches could talk themselves into it

that being said i think Lamar is going to be ready enough that RGIII will be competing vs players at other positions to make it onto the 53 and im not sure he'll win

I think this will be interesting to follow as training camp is under way.

 

[Tank]

View attachment 1091
Really nice play by Joe. Nice throw against cover 3 (out of Tampa 2) just about the only place it would fit. Nice job identifying the coverage and a real pretty throw. Joe makes this look easy. It would have been a conversion from 3rd and 16.

A lot of people forget(or just don’t know) how good Flacco is when he is healthy and has people that can catch. This year could be a really great one for the Good Guys.

 

[Edgar]

A lot of people forget(or just don’t know) how good Flacco is when he is healthy and has people that can catch. This year could be a really great one for the Good Guys.

This throw in particular caught my eye. This is such a challenging throw to make against a Tampa 2 style defense. We ran a ton of underneath stuff and two TE run heavy scheme during this game. This throw shows me that Joe can hit windows deep against this style defense and I'm hoping to see just this in 2018 vs. Browns.

 

[rossihunter2]

This throw in particular caught my eye. This is such a challenging throw to make against a Tampa 2 style defense. We ran a ton of underneath stuff and two TE run heavy scheme during this game. This throw shows me that Joe can hit windows deep against this style defense and I'm hoping to see just this in 2018 vs. Browns.

It’s a tough throw but it’s one of the best throws vs the tampa 2 - and not every qb can make that throw vs the tampa 2/cover3 - the best guy in the nfl recently at making that throw has been Matthew Stafford which I think says a lot about how arm strength and ball delivery play a significant part still in a qb’s overall upside in the nfl