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Joe Flacco

Tank said:
No doubt, and they all are dependable and catch the ball when thrown to them, which the Ravens squad has been lacking. They haven’t had the personnel to create those mismatches and are easily defended.
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not just dependable catchers they are all great route runners and can split out wide which is a brilliant matchup to have vs a linebacker - it's the kind of matchup we would want to exploit with danny woodhead - we havent really spent enough draft capital on the right types of running back to run this kind of system but that's a conscious choice by the FO and coaching staff
 
NARRATIVE ALERT... NARRATIVE ALERT...
so joe flacco has done something well this year:

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that doesnt seem to matchup well with what we've been seeing so im assuming this doesnt take into account distance to the line to gain - we do get a lot of completions on 3rd down but not many conversions because our offence is predicated on routes short of the sticks - this tells me that joe's running the 3rd down offence just fine but that the offensive scheme itself is lacking
 
rossihunter2 said:
NARRATIVE ALERT... NARRATIVE ALERT...
so joe flacco has done something well this year:

View attachment 323

that doesnt seem to matchup well with what we've been seeing so im assuming this doesnt take into account distance to the line to gain - we do get a lot of completions on 3rd down but not many conversions because our offence is predicated on routes short of the sticks - this tells me that joe's running the 3rd down offence just fine but that the offensive scheme itself is lacking
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He literally throws dump offs on 3rd downs so...
 
Deebo813 said:
He literally throws dump offs on 3rd downs so...
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as @Jacquouille said in a post somewhere though, there was a 3rd down call this week vs green bay where literally only 1 of our receivers ran a route that ever went past the sticks

gotta be someone beyond the sticks to throw to them

this rating to me suggests that as an offence flacco's doing what's asked of him but the designs arent good enough
 
rossihunter2 said:
as @Jacquouille said in a post somewhere though, there was a 3rd down call this week vs green bay where literally only 1 of our receivers ran a route that ever went past the sticks

gotta be someone beyond the sticks to throw to them

this rating to me suggests that as an offence flacco's doing what's asked of him but the designs arent good enough
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i respect that you still have faith in our Qb, but he is terrible. No stats nor a single game performance by flacco will make me think that he is a good qb
 
Deebo813 said:
i respect that you still have faith in our Qb, but he is terrible. No stats nor a single game performance by flacco will make me think that he is a good qb
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oh i dont have faith in him playing well - he hasnt played well for 3 seasons - im just saying that the above stat definitely suggests that its not just him and it has a lot to do with playcalling/design too
 
rossihunter2 said:
as @Jacquouille said in a post somewhere though, there was a 3rd down call this week vs green bay where literally only 1 of our receivers ran a route that ever went past the sticks

gotta be someone beyond the sticks to throw to them

this rating to me suggests that as an offence flacco's doing what's asked of him but the designs arent good enough
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There was probably a lot more than one, I was just randomly rewatching the 4th quarter and after like 5 offensive snaps I saw too many things trickling me so I decided to focus on two of those, as they illustrated a lot of weaknesses in the play calling.
 
rossihunter2 said:
as @Jacquouille said in a post somewhere though, there was a 3rd down call this week vs green bay where literally only 1 of our receivers ran a route that ever went past the sticks

gotta be someone beyond the sticks to throw to them

this rating to me suggests that as an offence flacco's doing what's asked of him but the designs arent good enough
Click to expand...

Jacquouille said:
There was probably a lot more than one, I was just randomly rewatching the 4th quarter and after like 5 offensive snaps I saw too many things trickling me so I decided to focus on two of those, as they illustrated a lot of weaknesses in the play calling.
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The issue still remains that if you're sitting on 3rd and 8 and aren't likely to go for it on fourth down, the defense knows it has to stop you from gaining eight yards, so they're going to sit on any route at or beyond 8 yards.

I know it's really easy to say we need to throw beyond 8 yards, but is anyone watching the All-22 to see how defenses are defending these situations?

That's what made SSS so great here. You didn't have to throw to or beyond the sticks; just dump it off to SSS and he'll get 90 yards.
 
29BmoreBird22 said:
The issue still remains that if you're sitting on 3rd and 8 and aren't likely to go for it on fourth down, the defense knows it has to stop you from gaining eight yards, so they're going to sit on any route at or beyond 8 yards.

I know it's really easy to say we need to throw beyond 8 yards, but is anyone watching the All-22 to see how defenses are defending these situations?

That's what made SSS so great here. You didn't have to throw to or beyond the sticks; just dump it off to SSS and he'll get 90 yards.
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you have to at least threaten beyond the sticks to open up the underneath routes to actually be able to get YAC though - if you send guys deep or beyond the sticks then they have to be covered beyond the sticks which opens up the line to gain for a route that starts short - the scheme/design has to be symbiotic but marty just has 3/4 receivers run routes in a small space which just allows the safeties and linebackers to collapse onto the line to gain
 
rossihunter2 said:
you have to at least threaten beyond the sticks to open up the underneath routes to actually be able to get YAC though - if you send guys deep or beyond the sticks then they have to be covered beyond the sticks which opens up the line to gain for a route that starts short - the scheme/design has to be symbiotic but marty just has 3/4 receivers run routes in a small space which just allows the safeties and linebackers to collapse onto the line to gain
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But let's say he does send three routes beyond the sticks and has a dump-off option and then Joe gets sacked looking downfield- will you be any happier?
 
29BmoreBird22 said:
The issue still remains that if you're sitting on 3rd and 8 and aren't likely to go for it on fourth down, the defense knows it has to stop you from gaining eight yards, so they're going to sit on any route at or beyond 8 yards.

I know it's really easy to say we need to throw beyond 8 yards, but is anyone watching the All-22 to see how defenses are defending these situations?

That's what made SSS so great here. You didn't have to throw to or beyond the sticks; just dump it off to SSS and he'll get 90 yards.
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Absolutely, @Truth has the all-22 with game pass.
 
rossihunter2 said:
as @Jacquouille said in a post somewhere though, there was a 3rd down call this week vs green bay where literally only 1 of our receivers ran a route that ever went past the sticks

gotta be someone beyond the sticks to throw to them

this rating to me suggests that as an offence flacco's doing what's asked of him but the designs arent good enough
Click to expand...
Nah man, 0 yard flat pass to a DT on 3rd down is quality scheming.
 
29BmoreBird22 said:
But let's say he does send three routes beyond the sticks and has a dump-off option and then Joe gets sacked looking downfield- will you be any happier?
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i mean like on 3rd and 8 having someone drive 10 yards and curl back, someone run a deeper route that cuts towards the middle of the field and draws the eyes of the safety, have a crosser that's also your hot route and then have your checkdown option - something like that should give you at least 3 half decent chances to get to that first down marker because the defence has to respect the idea that you might beat them deeper than the line to gain
 
29BmoreBird22 said:
But let's say he does send three routes beyond the sticks and has a dump-off option and then Joe gets sacked looking downfield- will you be any happier?
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But let's say we stop having buck Allen and nick Boyle playing on third and long, say we send guys like Moore, Wallace, and Watson past the 8 yard line, maclin runs a slant/drag from the slot and woodhead finds the soft spot. Joe doesn't have to look downfield aside from looking off the safety.

Say Watson is inline, with Moore and Wallace outside, send Watson burning up the seam, that draws a safety bare minimum, perhaps a LB also, deep slant with Wallace across the field threatens a velocity pass so the safety has to anticipate this and play cautious, Moore on a fly route just in case the other safety doesn't bite, woodhead in the backfield demands attention. That leaves maclin 1v1 with either a LB or nickel back out of the slot, and THERE is your YAC. Have joe look at Watson off the snap and he WILL draw an extra defender, before joe finishes his drop his eyes should be turned to maclin where he strikes after a 3 step drop, maclin is ahead of his man, and the nearest LB and safety is on Watson, the other LB is on woodhead, and the FS is on either Wallace or Moore, wide open field and quick release so pass pro doesn't matter.

Theoretical and all, but one thing is certain, if something won't even work on paper it definitely won't work on the field, and sending everybody 5 yards deep on 3rd and 8 fails in every hypothetical and real life scenario. So you don't have to wait for deep routes to develop to make use of deep routes, you just use multiple route concepts to scheme guys open short. You simply can't let guys run downfield uncovered, you can't let big bodied TEs fly up the seam without covering his up-top and underneath, we don't have the pass pro to get downfield but we don't have to, we just have to threaten downfield.
 
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