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Washington Nationals discussion (2017)

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
yeah I know. There may not be many Nats fans on the board, but I'm one of them.

The Nats really escaped a devastating injury with Bryce Harper "only" having a bone bruise after his hyperextension last night. If you haven't seen his injury last night in a game that never should have been played, look it up on YouTube.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
Not O's related, but with the Dodgers getting Yu Darvish, they should cruise to the World Series and win.
Not so fast. The Nationals have a much deeper bench than the Dodgers do, by far. One of the biggest elements to winning to a champion is how deep the bench is and being able to play on the road. The Nats have the best away record in the National League. If the Nats get past round one they will be tough to stop. Not saying the Dodgers can't do it, they very well might, but a deep bench, especially in the playoffs is huge.
 

Tank

Hall of Famer
No offense meant, but I kinda feel like the Nats are destined to be perpetual chokers.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
No offense meant, but I kinda feel like the Nats are destined to be perpetual chokers.
Lol, no offense taken. I feel they need to win prior to game five of round one. This team seems a lot different. They are beating all the best teams in the league, they have one of the deepest benches in the league and the best away record in the National League. All important for a champion. Will they win, that is yet to be seen, but they have to get beyond the first round.
Two of the three times they have been in the playoffs they played the Giants and the Cardinals. Both of those teams went on to win the World Series. 'Nuff said
 

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
Not so fast. The Nationals have a much deeper bench than the Dodgers do, by far. One of the biggest elements to winning to a champion is how deep the bench is and being able to play on the road. The Nats have the best away record in the National League. If the Nats get past round one they will be tough to stop. Not saying the Dodgers can't do it, they very well might, but a deep bench, especially in the playoffs is huge.
The Dodgers actually have a better away win percentage... by 1%. The Nationals DO have more wins, but they've played four more games on the road to this point.

The teams actually look decently matched in two areas. One is that the Nationals have excellent pitching. Strasburg, whenever he gets back, is a stud and Max Scherzer might be one of the top 3 best pitchers in the NL, if not all of the MLB. They're getting a surprisingly strong contribution from Gio Gonzalez, too, who is pitching far above his normal level. They just aren't getting as great of contributions past those three and with the health of Strasburg always a concern, the four, five, six pitcher spots could definitely have a huge impact. On the flip side, you've got the Dodgers with four guys who would be front of the line pitchers on most teams in Kershaw (the best pitcher in the MLB), Darvish, Hill, and Wood. Then, on the back end, you have two players who could easily pitch second or third in most rotations in Maeda and Ryu. Right now, the Dodgers are top in the MLB in team ERA and Washington sits 8. On the front end of the rotations, they're evenly matched, but the Dodgers pitching depth takes them over the top.

As a team, the Nationals are excellent hitters, ranking second in batting average. Bryce Harper and Daniel Murphy are in the top 5 in NL BA and I wanna say they have like four hitters over .300 and one or two more over .290, but they aren't majorly outclassing the Dodgers like you'd expect when you consider the Dodgers are 16th in the entire MLB in BA. The reason is because the Dodgers have drawn almost 100 more walks than the Nationals. They're like 50 walks up over second place. The Dodgers actually have a better OBP than the Nationals, despite such a disparity in BA. When looking at OBPS and SLG, the Dodgers are number three in both in the MLB, one spot behind the Nationals. The Dodgers actually are ahead of the Nationals in home runs and sit just two spots behind the Nationals in total bases, ranking fourth, despite such the huge difference in BA.

The real big deal breaker is the bullpens. The Dodgers rank third in the MLB in bullpen ERA (Nats are 29th), have the most wins from the bullpen, and have the third fewest amount of runs with the 14th most innings pitched. On the flip side, the Nationals rank 12th in total runs allowed on the fewest innings pitched from the bullpen. The Dodgers also have the second best BAA from the bullpen, whereas the Nationals rank 29th. The Dodgers also feature this years best closer in Jansen. If I'm the Nats, I'm terrified if the game goes to my bullpen.

As it stands, the Dodgers are 13 games up on the second best team in the NL (the Nationals) and 11 games up on the second best team in the MLB (the Astros). I'm not sure how far out from the trade deadline we are (two weeks or so and maybe 10ish games?), so the Dodgers were the best team in the MLB and then just added another ace to the rotation.

I really see little reason to doubt the Dodgers against anyone. They are top 5 in just about every major stat category of batting, pitching, and bullpen statistics.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
@29BmoreBird22
Good points and I agree, they could very well be the NL champion or even the World Series champion. Now you mentioned the bullpen. The Nats just acquired three relievers all of which are performing well. Doolittle has atleast 7 saves since being acquired in the middle of July. Madson and Brandon Kintzler have done well also. All of these new relievers has closing experience. As you stated, if the Nats hadn't acquired these arms it would most definitely be a deal breaker, but since they have 29th in the majors isn't accurate anymore.

The Nationals have being 2nd in the majors in hitting have done this with despite all of their injuries. They will be getting Trea Turner and Jayson Werth back. Trea Turner is a cornerstone of this team and will help them tremendously when he comes back. Thank god Bryce Harper "only" had a bone bruise and not an ACL tear.
 
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29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
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@29BmoreBird22
Good points and I agree, they could very well be the NL champion or even the World Series champion. Now you mentioned the bullpen. The Nats just acquired three relievers all of which are performing well. Doolittle has atleast 7 saves since being acquired in the middle of July. Madson and Brandon Kintzler has done well also. All of these new relievers has closing experience. As you stated, if the Nats hadn't acquired these arms it would most definitely be a deal breaker, but since they have that 29th in the majors isn't accurate anymore.

The Nationals being 2nd in the majors in hitting have done this with all of the injuries that have had this year. They will be getting Trea Turner back along with Jason Werth and as you stated they are the 2nd best hitting team in the majors. Yet they have done this without those players. Trea Turner is a cornerstone of this team and will help them tremendously. Thank god Bryce Harper "only" had a bone bruise and not an ACL tear.
They're still 29th in the MLB with these new trade acquisitions. It might put them up a few spots, but overwhelmingly, it's still a weak spot of the team and the Dodgers still have the second best bullpen in the MLB (unsurprisingly, the best is the Astros). Madson and Kintzler are both pretty good arms, I will give them that, but Doolittle isn't anything I'd get too excited about.

Hell, getting Werth and Turner back would actually LOWER the BA of the Nationals and neither is bringing too much value in terms of power. Right now, the Nationals probably aren't going to be getting any better offensively, even with those two.

I'm interested to see how well the teams shake out in the postseason, but I'd give a pretty clear lead to the Dodgers still.

And it's not that I see the Nationals as a bad team. It's just, similar to the Cubs last year, I see the Dodgers as a pretty clear favorite until they're actually knocked out.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
They're still 29th in the MLB with these new trade acquisitions. It might put them up a few spots, but overwhelmingly, it's still a weak spot of the team and the Dodgers still have the second best bullpen in the MLB (unsurprisingly, the best is the Astros). Madson and Kintzler are both pretty good arms, I will give them that, but Doolittle isn't anything I'd get too excited about.

Hell, getting Werth and Turner back would actually LOWER the BA of the Nationals and neither is bringing too much value in terms of power. Right now, the Nationals probably aren't going to be getting any better offensively, even with those two.

I'm interested to see how well the teams shake out in the postseason, but I'd give a pretty clear lead to the Dodgers still.

And it's not that I see the Nationals as a bad team. It's just, similar to the Cubs last year, I see the Dodgers as a pretty clear favorite until they're actually knocked out.
Long term I wouldn't get excited about these new arms, but with 7 saves in 7 tries. He's doing well, a huge improvement. If we had them all year we would be nowhere near 29th. Check to see how they have done since they acquired these arms and compare it to the league. It won't be near 29th.

Turner has been out for two months and when he went down he had 82 hits 53 runs scored 32 rbis 35 stolen basis in 294 at bats. Don't pick and piece, hes an extremely important piece to the Nats success.

In 10 games prior to thr injury, to show how he was heating up. He has 15 hits 7 walks scored 11 runs and stole 9 bases. Sorry but you stating the average would go down just pissed me off. Lol

If the Nats play the dodgers it will be an extremely good series with both having a good chance to win.
 
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Tank

Hall of Famer
Lol, no offense taken. I feel they need to win prior to game five of round one. This team seems a lot different. They are beating all the best teams in the league, they have one of the deepest benches in the league and the best away record in the National League. All important for a champion. Will they win, that is yet to be seen, but they have to get beyond the first round.
Two of the three times they have been in the playoffs they played the Giants and the Cardinals. Both of those teams went on to win the World Series. 'Nuff said

Well, yes. 99.9% of the teams that win the Series get past the first round. lol
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
Well, yes. 99.9% of the teams that win the Series get past the first round. lol
I meant if they go game 5 of round one they have a history of choking. Win that game and all bets are off. Lol
 

Tank

Hall of Famer
I meant if they go game 5 of round one they have a history of choking. Win that game and all bets are off. Lol

Haha.......I'm in the D.C. market as well but have always been an Os fan. I never really cared much one way or the other about the Nats(except when they play the Birds of course), but there's something about Baker, and Werth for that matter that makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. Just not real fond of those guys. Luv Ryan Z. though! lol
 

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
Dodgers are good but I wouldn't give them the crown just yet. They've had a history of choking as well, and Kershaw has not usually been that good during the postseason despite the fact that he's easily the best pitcher the MLB has seen in almost a decade. That said, they've set themselves up for a long term dynasty. Kershaw has 4 dominant years left in all likelihood, and he's a megastud. Wood is a very good lefty who would be a number one in half of the league's rotations. Maeda and Ryu are good 2s and 3s. This is not to mention Urias, their top prospect who was out for the year, is a lefty with ace potential himself. Jansen has been a very good closer for years and will likely continue to be one with that cut fastball of his. The ddogers have also loaded up the bullpen as well for the next several years.

It also helps that their farm system has turned out three consecutive rookie all stars in Pederson, Seager, and Bellinger. The last two are beasts, with Bellinger having run away with rookie of the year in his sleep. Seager is a top shortstop in the MLB already, and Pederson may be an inconsistent hitter but is good enough of a defensive center fielder to make up for that. Not to mention, in order to get Darvish, they didn't give up one of their studs from their(impressive. Bellinger himself was not really a top prospect so what does that tell you) farm system, which has another great pitcher and outfielder coming in within the next few seasons.

Dodgers have set themselves up to win both now and in the future. They're too good not to win a world series at some point, but I'm not sure if this is their year. Kershaw-Darvish-Wood-Hill is a kickass four man rotation for the postseason. They will have to pick between Maeda and Ryu for the final starter(which really benefits Kershaw as this gives him rest), and then the other one could become a valuable long reliever. The dodgers have a kickass bullpen with an elite closer. If Tony Watson can return to form as a very good setup man, then their might not be a team in the majors who can beat them. The Dodgers(for once) have a manager who appears to know what the hell he's doing(and not overuse Kershaw).

It'd be a competitive series against the Nationals, but I'm not sure the Dodgers would prevail. Scherzer is an elite pitcher and Strasburg is a beast, and Harper is the NL's version of Mike Trout. It'd be interesting.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
It's going to be very interesting the closer we get to the playoffs and into the postseason. Once you get to the playoffs it's a different ballgame. The Nats can attest to that.
 

29BmoreBird22

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Moderator
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Long term I wouldn't get excited about these new arms, but with 7 saves in 7 tries. He's doing well, a huge improvement. If we had them all year we would be nowhere near 29th. Check to see how they have done since they acquired these arms and compare it to the league. It won't be near 29th.

Turner has been out for two months and when he went down he had 82 hits 53 runs scored 32 rbis 35 stolen basis in 294 at bats. Don't pick and piece, hes an extremely important piece to the Nats success.

In 10 games prior to thr injury, to show how he was heating up. He has 15 hits 7 walks scored 11 runs and stole 9 bases. Sorry but you stating the average would go down just pissed me off. Lol

If the Nats play the dodgers it will be an extremely good series with both having a good chance to win.
There isn't actually a way to filter it out. We'll just have to monitor it over the remainder of the season. I think there's like 30 more games or so. That should give a pretty good ranking and give time for them to definitely improve on the 29th ranking.

I never said he wasn't important because, as you said, he's an extremely good base runner. But as far as putting the Nationals over the top, I don't think he will. He'll add a definite dynamic as a base runner, but the Nationals are probably at the peak offensively, which is an elite offensive team.

I'm very interested to see how the Nationals do to finish the series, but the Dodgers, to me as an Orioles fan, look like the clear cut favorite.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
There isn't actually a way to filter it out. We'll just have to monitor it over the remainder of the season. I think there's like 30 more games or so. That should give a pretty good ranking and give time for them to definitely improve on the 29th ranking.

I never said he wasn't important because, as you said, he's an extremely good base runner. But as far as putting the Nationals over the top, I don't think he will. He'll add a definite dynamic as a base runner, but the Nationals are probably at the peak offensively, which is an elite offensive team.

I'm very interested to see how the Nationals do to finish the series, but the Dodgers, to me as an Orioles fan, look like the clear cut favorite.
No doubt they are the favorite, even in my eyes. However, so were the Nationals on more than one occasion with the best record in the majors.
 

29BmoreBird22

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No doubt they are the favorite, even in my eyes. However, so were the Nationals on more than one occasion with the best record in the majors.
I remember when the Orioles were doing well, I actually checked power rankings and the Nationals were usually right up there in the top spot or, at the very worst, top 3. I think they're still easily one of the top five teams in the MLB.
 

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
I remember when the Orioles were doing well, I actually checked power rankings and the Nationals were usually right up there in the top spot or, at the very worst, top 3. I think they're still easily one of the top five teams in the MLB.
The nationals have a better offense and up front pitching rotation, but their lack of a bull pen scares the hell out of me. I do have the Dodgers winning the NL this year, and the Astros with the AL. Which I'd love to see. That could be the beginning of a new rivalry.
I'd expect a series to go five with the dodgers winning it.

Not to mention you have to factor in the McCarthy and Kazmir could very well return to be long relievers as well as Ryu, and that Gonzalez and Either could return as Bats as well, and they could move Bellinger to the outfield to let Gonzalez back to first base.

This Dodgers team is loaded.
 

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
The nationals have a better offense and up front pitching rotation, but their lack of a bull pen scares the hell out of me. I do have the Dodgers winning the NL this year, and the Astros with the AL. Which I'd love to see. That could be the beginning of a new rivalry.
I'd expect a series to go five with the dodgers winning it.

Not to mention you have to factor in the McCarthy and Kazmir could very well return to be long relievers as well as Ryu, and that Gonzalez and Either could return as Bats as well, and they could move Bellinger to the outfield to let Gonzalez back to first base.

This Dodgers team is loaded.
The Dodgers and Nationals are near even offensively and the upfront of the rotations, in my mind, are also pretty damn even.

This Dodgers team IS loaded.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
The nationals have a better offense and up front pitching rotation, but their lack of a bull pen scares the hell out of me. I do have the Dodgers winning the NL this year, and the Astros with the AL. Which I'd love to see. That could be the beginning of a new rivalry.
I'd expect a series to go five with the dodgers winning i
t.

Not to mention you have to factor in the McCarthy and Kazmir could very well return to be long relievers as well as Ryu, and that Gonzalez and Either could return as Bats as well, and they could move Bellinger to the outfield to let Gonzalez back to first base.

This Dodgers team is loaded.
do you mean 7 games, as I'd expect the World Series to go 7 games or atleast 6 games
 
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