The Good, The Bad and The Ugly - Titans Edition

[rossihunter2]

Every pass play we run looks difficult. Like multiple reads, no easy pitch and catch throws, etc.

it feels like every other team in the league can find those sorts of plays

honestly I want to see Proche more - every time I've seen him on the field to run a route he gets himself open in a short space and yesterday was the first time lamar got the ball to him and it worked out for us

partly I think though it's a function of condensing the field and bringing players down into the middle of the field - Lamar's at his best throwing between the hashes but when we run these tighter sets we're naturally bringing more defenders into that area - likewise when we're putting heavier personnel on the field we're not seeing LBs to matchup anymore which is where some of those advantages came last year - we're seeing DBs who are better covering in that area of the field

Especially with Boyle gone I want to see a ton more 11 personnel and I want to see us spread defences out on 1st down with only Dobbins in the backfield (with the ability to split him out too) - we dont have a great receiving corps so you could argue maybe they need the bunch sets etc. to get schemed open but with the best strike areas for Lamar right now I think you have to just expect that 1 guy could maybe come open on a given down

 

[rossihunter2]

At a macro level I thought the Oline was fine yesterday. Penalties still a bit of a problem but they didn't stand out as a doing a poor job to me, though the Titans Dline isn't nearly as problematic as it usually is.

i mean they didnt give up a sack until OT which is better

Orlando has settled in well at LT
Powers looked good on first watch at RG
Mekari was an improvement over Skura from the last few weeks but also made a couple of pretty big mistakes at the end of the game in critical spots
Bozeman had a bad game I think
Fluker/Holden is a big problem at RT especially facing the Steelers on Thursday and seeing TJ Watt and Bud Dupree...

Every time Powers has stepped on the field he's done well - I really don't get how he was never in the fight to win that RG start in the offseason

 

[Militant X 1]

idk that you can say that - it felt that way when that happened then we went 3 and out and then they scored a long td drive

but then we rallied and took a decent sized lead - hard to say we were over-awed and not up for it from the very beginning at that stage

Nothing major or monumental Rossi. Just my own lil way of seeing things.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

you're 100% right on Lamar - he had 1 bad decision which led to an INT and 1 or 2 other bad throws (thinking specifically of the miss to Andrews and the out to Hollywood) but otherwise I think he played pretty well again - I think he's had 2 or 3 games where he's moved an awful offence consistently up and down the field in fact if you take away the turnovers in the steelers game we were rolling up and down the field on that defence too

really not sure what you wanted Lamar to do about that sack though he had absolutely no chance to do anything with that football the OL just didnt deal with a pretty basic stunt

it's gone unnoticed because we've been losing and the OL and WR corps has become a shambles but I really don't think Lamar's been playing badly at all the last few weeks

in terms of playcalling there are moments where I think we're not creative enough on 1st down but in terms of actual designs and stuff I've had very few complaints the last 4 weeks or so with what we've done offensively schematically - and Roman's actually done pretty well adjusting in the 2nd half to counter what the defence is showing us - Roman certainly hasnt been the issue the last few weeks - and in fact the Andrews TD was a beautiful route combo - up until the bye i think there was an issue with our playcalling and designs - i don't think it's been an issue since then tbh

Lamar lost us ONE game all year. Pittsburgh is on him, literally every other game he and the defense have been our reasons for winning/being competitive.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

there was another play where on the broadcast Nantz and Romo praised how well the DL were stopping the Titans OL and Henry at the LoS then showed the reverse angle and it was Clark and Harrison filling that gap where the play got clogged up with Harrison making the tackle

he has been as advertised - he's been everything he showed on tape at Ohio State which had some people seeing him as a 2nd round type talent

Harrison is looking like a steal, Queen was DROY for basically the first half of the season but he has come back down to earth, feels like offenses are making it a point to not let him run free as I see him often getting real cluttered basically as soon as rhe ball is snapped and failing to reach the point of attack, and it also feels like a lot of play fakes are intended to get him specifically lost in no mans land, and it’s working often.

I think getting Campbell and Williams back will fix the former problem, but the latter is all on Queen

 

[rossihunter2]

Lamar lost us ONE game all year. Pittsburgh is on him, literally every other game he and the defense have been our reasons for winning/being competitive.

in many games in underwhelming ways he's been dragging this offence up

through the flacco years we always wanted him to elevate the talent around him and it feels like that's what Lamar's having to do and he's not been completely unsuccessful at it the last few weeks

 

[rossihunter2]

Harrison is looking like a steal, Queen was DROY for basically the first half of the season but he has come back down to earth, feels like offenses are making it a point to not let him run free as I see him often getting real cluttered basically as soon as rhe ball is snapped and failing to reach the point of attack, and it also feels like a lot of play fakes are intended to get him specifically lost in no mans land, and it’s working often.

I think getting Campbell and Williams back will fix the former problem, but the latter is all on Queen

Queen is being slow to trigger in the run game but he's also been given way more responsibilities than Harrison in the passing game - Harrison has done well on the field but he's not being put in difficult isolated coverage positions a lot - Queen's still in that stage where he's having super high moments and super low moments - he had a really nice zone-drop that stopped the Titans from scoring a TD on that 3rd down (when they settled for a FG inside the 5 yard line) and saved 4 points but he also got caught in the wash too often because he didnt trigger - but he's such a great blitzer already

as you say, teams are targeting Queen because he's left in spots and given responsibilities where it's possible to isolate him and exploit his inexperience - i have no doubt he'll get better

Harrison is being asked to do exactly the kinds of things he did at Ohio State and we're reaping the rewards - he's a really natural zone dropper and uses his length to his advantage and he's awesome coming downhill and out-grown-manning high quality OL on his way to fill the gap - he's really fundamentally sound in the running game

 

[rmcjacket23]

i mean they didnt give up a sack until OT which is better

Orlando has settled in well at LT
Powers looked good on first watch at RG
Mekari was an improvement over Skura from the last few weeks but also made a couple of pretty big mistakes at the end of the game in critical spots
Bozeman had a bad game I think
Fluker/Holden is a big problem at RT especially facing the Steelers on Thursday and seeing TJ Watt and Bud Dupree...

Every time Powers has stepped on the field he's done well - I really don't get how he was never in the fight to win that RG start in the offseason

Brown is quickly pricing himself out of a long term contract with the Ravens. He can play RT at an elite level and can, from what I've seen, play LT at least at an average-to-above-average level in a pinch. That's Lane Johnson-level, who's making $18M per with $55M in guarantees.

 

[rossihunter2]

these are the kinds of missed opportunities that are most frustrating because the ball placement is good, the route is good, the playcall is good but the ball is late and it undoes the "win" on that play because Hollywood has to slow up and it lets the defender back into the down

 

[Simba]

Brown is quickly pricing himself out of a long term contract with the Ravens. He can play RT at an elite level and can, from what I've seen, play LT at least at an average-to-above-average level in a pinch. That's Lane Johnson-level, who's making $18M per with $55M in guarantees.

I never expected him to stay in all honesty. Quality player but always felt like the odd man out with how many other long term contracts are in the pipeline. Feels good to get Humphrey and Stanley locked up, but still likely have Ngakoue this year and Andrews next year. Lamar TBD but I'd be shocked if he's not approached seriously at some point in 2021/2022. Glad OBJ is making himself some money this year though. Good on him. He's been a lone bright spot on that OL recently.

 

[drjohnnyfever]

but clearly we didnt get the 1st down going for it either because we false started so i think you have way too much confidence in this offensive line to convert

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I think the HC killed the drive (and the game) with a dumb ball placement challenge that took more than 2 minutes resolve... which occurred before the false start you mention... caused the drive to stall. Leading me to observe that that challenge, a challenge which is rarely overturned caused us to lose continuity when the Oline was moving the ball and had earned to consecutive 3rd down conversions. We settled for a FG. Might have been different. Tennessee was doing nothing to stop us before that stoppage for the challenge. In fact, they were exhausted and on their heels.

Of course the false start was terrible, but the challenge took the wind out of the offenses sails, imo. You don't challenge a ball placement when your team is effectively moving the ball and has 2 downs to get a yard. We'll never know whether I'm correct because the challenge occurred, but I'm buoyed by the fact that the OFF did NOTHING after that occurred. We looked as flat as a rug after that series.

 

[rossihunter2]

Brown is quickly pricing himself out of a long term contract with the Ravens. He can play RT at an elite level and can, from what I've seen, play LT at least at an average-to-above-average level in a pinch. That's Lane Johnson-level, who's making $18M per with $55M in guarantees.

I dont think he'd be thought of necessarily in the same class as Johnson right now but by the time he hits the market that may well be his price tag

I think he's played as well at LT as he did at RT this year too - he may have priced himself out of Baltimore but that would be a shame if we cant hang on to both bookends because what he's shown is that he's definitely worthy of trying to pay to keep around on a 2nd deal

 

[rossihunter2]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I think the HC killed the drive (and the game) with a dumb ball placement challenge that took more than 2 minutes resolve... which occurred before the false start you mention... caused the drive to stall. Leading me to observe that that challenge, a challenge which is rarely overturned caused us to lose continuity when the Oline was moving the ball and had earned to consecutive 3rd down conversions. We settled for a FG. Might have been different. Tennessee was doing nothing to stop us before that stoppage for the challenge. In fact, they were exhausted and on their heels.

Of course the false start was terrible, but the challenge took the wind out of the offenses sails, imo. You don't challenge a ball placement when your team is effectively moving the ball and has 2 downs to get a yard. We'll never know whether I'm correct because the challenge occurred, but I'm buoyed by the fact that the OFF did NOTHING after that occurred. We looked as flat as a rug after that series.

except we didnt settle for a FG, we punted...
we werent in field position where Harbs would have necessarily gone for it on 4th down - looked to me like we wouldnt have gone for it

 

[drjohnnyfever]

Well, the turnover thing is not accurate at all. We lost to Pittsburgh because of turnovers.

We definitely didn't lose the NE game because of turnovers. The interception in that game merely took us out of MAYBE a FG (which I think would have been missed anyway), and said FG would have only tied the game at halftime. We were already losing in the 2nd quarter prior to any turnovers, and that turnover didn't lead to any points for NE. We lost because we got pushed around.

I also don't think the INT was the difference in the Titans game either. We weren't close to scoring position on that drive at that time, and if we didn't get into scoring territory, that INT acts no differently than a punt. Like you can maybe make the argument that it sucked some momentum out, but realistically, I think its hard to argue we had much momentum at that point anyway.

I'll disagree, especially with the INT to TENN. That little FG came off a turnover. W/o that turnover and points, we kick the winning FG in the 4th. How didn't it matter, again.

TO's cost games and we have had a lot of them in games that we were in and leading and maybe should have even won despite them. That spells costly to me no matter how you slice it.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I think the HC killed the drive (and the game) with a dumb ball placement challenge that took more than 2 minutes resolve... which occurred before the false start you mention... caused the drive to stall. Leading me to observe that that challenge, a challenge which is rarely overturned caused us to lose continuity when the Oline was moving the ball and had earned to consecutive 3rd down conversions. We settled for a FG. Might have been different. Tennessee was doing nothing to stop us before that stoppage for the challenge. In fact, they were exhausted and on their heels.

Of course the false start was terrible, but the challenge took the wind out of the offenses sails, imo. You don't challenge a ball placement when your team is effectively moving the ball and has 2 downs to get a yard. We'll never know whether I'm correct because the challenge occurred, but I'm buoyed by the fact that the OFF did NOTHING after that occurred. We looked as flat as a rug after that series.

Yeah I don't buy this at all.
1. I certainly don't buy its two-down territory. If we don't convert the 3rd down there, I very much think we punt. We're on our own 45, up 5, with roughly 8 minutes to go. If we can't convert one yard there, I think John absolutely punts and goes for field position. I understand he's been largely "aggressive" in those instances in the past, but its a different animal and beast in this case.
Also considering that our failures in short yardage against Tennessee was absolutely one of the keys in our loss to Tennessee in the playoffs, I think John punts there.
2. No way you can have a high level of confidence in us on 3rd and 1 in this case.
3. I'm not seeing this "they couldn't stop us" aspect you're seeing. That's not reflected in anything I see on film. It's far from the idea that we were just marching up and down the field at will.

 

[rossihunter2]

3. I'm not seeing this "they couldn't stop us" aspect you're seeing. That's not reflected in anything I see on film. It's far from the idea that we were just marching up and down the field at will.

this especially - we had 5 plays before we got to the challenge - only 3 of them went for more than 1 yard and only 1 of them went for more than 6 yards (8 yards) - it's true that the drive had started well, to say that we were rolling and they were on the heels and in any way somehow gassed is ridiculous to me

 

[rmcjacket23]

I'll disagree, especially with the INT to TENN. That little FG came off a turnover. W/o that turnover and points, we kick the winning FG in the 4th. How didn't it matter, again.

TO's cost games and we have had a lot of them in games that we were in and leading and maybe should have even won despite them. That spells costly to me no matter how you slice it.

No. The FG came off an 81 yard drive AFTER an INT. If the drive had stalled and then we punted, why would you think Tennessee couldn't drive 80+ yards again and kick a FG without the INT?

It's not like the turnover set them up on a short field. The defense still has to do its part, like 80 yards, to allow that.

 

[drjohnnyfever]

except we didnt settle for a FG, we punted...
we werent in field position where Harbs would have necessarily gone for it on 4th down - looked to me like we wouldnt have gone for it

We were coming off an 8 yard run and a first down in that drive. We needed one yard after gaining 19 yards rushing and 6 yards passing in that possession and rather than put the pedal to the metal and hurry up the OFF and maintain continuity... John shot himself and us in the foot. The gunslinger who likes to go for it on 4th down... Come on. That was a terrible challenge at that down and distance... at least to a potential FG even.

That whole series was critical. After the punt, the Titans went for 90 yards to take the lead. I don't dispute the penalty was terrible, but not going into hurry up with that 3rd and 1 and John stopping action for nearly 3 minutes with the placement challenge allowed Tenn just the rest they needed on both DEF and OFF as they came out hot and scored after the 90 yard drive.

 

[Grim]

you're 100% right on Lamar - he had 1 bad decision which led to an INT and 1 or 2 other bad throws (thinking specifically of the miss to Andrews and the out to Hollywood) but otherwise I think he played pretty well again - I think he's had 2 or 3 games where he's moved an awful offence consistently up and down the field in fact if you take away the turnovers in the steelers game we were rolling up and down the field on that defence too

really not sure what you wanted Lamar to do about that sack though he had absolutely no chance to do anything with that football the OL just didnt deal with a pretty basic stunt

it's gone unnoticed because we've been losing and the OL and WR corps has become a shambles but I really don't think Lamar's been playing badly at all the last few weeks

in terms of playcalling there are moments where I think we're not creative enough on 1st down but in terms of actual designs and stuff I've had very few complaints the last 4 weeks or so with what we've done offensively schematically - and Roman's actually done pretty well adjusting in the 2nd half to counter what the defence is showing us - Roman certainly hasnt been the issue the last few weeks - and in fact the Andrews TD was a beautiful route combo - up until the bye i think there was an issue with our playcalling and designs - i don't think it's been an issue since then tbh

I felt like he had room to extend the play with his feet but went too far back and then settled in what looked like a collapsing pocket. He's also appeared more confused and hesitant in the pocket too. He isn't as decisive and confident back there as I saw last year. I may need to go back and watch but that was my impression when I saw him take that sack and saw it develop that he was standing there and the sack looked like it was coming but he seemed like he had some room to rush.

Perhaps that is fair regarding Roman but I also don't like the substitutions we are doing nor like the predictability we have regarding when we run vs. pass. We aren't strong up front yet we continue to try like we are. The OL lost a lot of grit with Yanda.

 

[drjohnnyfever]

No. The FG came off an 81 yard drive AFTER an INT. If the drive had stalled and then we punted, why would you think Tennessee couldn't drive 80+ yards again and kick a FG without the INT?

It's not like the turnover set them up on a short field. The defense still has to do its part, like 80 yards, to allow that.

I said, the FG came off the INT... not sure what you're disagreeing with. The Tenn FG was the result of the INT. The kickoff after the FG started our drive that ended with us punting after the challenge. Without that INT and the points that arose from it, we go into a last possession tied at 21 despite the punt after the challenge and despite the Titans scoring that TD on the drive after the punt. All things remaining the same, we get the ball back tied at 21 in the final couple minutes and kick the winning FG with time expiring. The negative impact of that INT was huge. You disputed the INT earlier as insignificant in an earlier comment...

The only thing that remains uncertain is whether we could have done anything positive had the challenge not occurred. If we continue that drive uninterrupted, who knows maybe we stall as you and Ross think, or maybe it goes a different direction as I feel it would have. You guys think the challenge and INT were not a big deal, I think both were critical. We'll have to leave it boiled down to that.