The 2021 Offseason Thread

[Simba]

From our FA perspective, here are my personal thoughts and categories.

1. Edge

Matt Judon
Yannick Ngakoue
Tyus Bowser
Pernell McPhee
Jihad Ward

This all gets lumped together because this is the biggest priority right now. We only have 1 guy under contract (Jaylon Ferguson) and he was a weekly inactive as the OLB6 down the stretch. You have to sign at least 2 of Judon, Ngakoue, Bowser, McPhee, and Ward. Would think you're looking at at least one of Judon/Ngakoue and McPhee for another cheap deal. I think they like Ward and would want to retain him, but I do think he could do a little better on the open market than he did last year. Bowser has a lot of value to us, but think he could be valuable to 4-3 teams as well. Really curious to see what his price is, but I think you need to retain one of him or Judon for the SLB role, which is very complex in our defense.


2. Priorities

Derek Wolfe

In my last iteration, Wolfe had Jimmy Smith and the edge guys flanking him in this category. But with edge moving to it's own spot and Smith being re-signed already, Wolfe stands alone. I see no way this one won't get done.


3. Cheap Keeps

Eric Tomlinson
Justin Ellis
Morgan Cox

Both of the positional players are pure depth guys that I think you absolutely re-sign for the minimum or close to it. Neither would be guaranteed a spot but I see no reason not keep these guys around if you can. Also adding in Morgan Cox here.


4. Who Cares

Willie Snead
Matt Skura
Robert Griffin
Anthony Levine
Chris Moore
DJ Fluker
Tramon Williams
Dez Bryant
Jordan Richards

This list grew a little since the last time I did this. Willie Snead was originally up one rung, but I think you just have to get more talent at the position - someone more dynamic and more of a threat. Maybe a few of the other guys find their way back at the minimum, primarily for ST reasons, but does it really matter? Time to start getting younger in some of these spots too.

 

[rossihunter2]

From our FA perspective, here are my personal thoughts and categories.

1. Edge

Matt Judon
Yannick Ngakoue
Tyus Bowser
Pernell McPhee
Jihad Ward

This all gets lumped together because this is the biggest priority right now. We only have 1 guy under contract (Jaylon Ferguson) and he was a weekly inactive as the OLB6 down the stretch. You have to sign at least 2 of Judon, Ngakoue, Bowser, McPhee, and Ward. Would think you're looking at at least one of Judon/Ngakoue and McPhee for another cheap deal. I think they like Ward and would want to retain him, but I do think he could do a little better on the open market than he did last year. Bowser has a lot of value to us, but think he could be valuable to 4-3 teams as well. Really curious to see what his price is, but I think you need to retain one of him or Judon for the SLB role, which is very complex in our defense.


2. Priorities

Derek Wolfe

In my last iteration, Wolfe had Jimmy Smith and the edge guys flanking him in this category. But with edge moving to it's own spot and Smith being re-signed already, Wolfe stands alone. I see no way this one won't get done.


3. Cheap Keeps

Eric Tomlinson
Justin Ellis
Morgan Cox

Both of the positional players are pure depth guys that I think you absolutely re-sign for the minimum or close to it. Neither would be guaranteed a spot but I see no reason not keep these guys around if you can. Also adding in Morgan Cox here.


4. Who Cares

Willie Snead
Matt Skura
Robert Griffin
Anthony Levine
Chris Moore
DJ Fluker
Tramon Williams
Dez Bryant
Jordan Richards

This list grew a little since the last time I did this. Willie Snead was originally up one rung, but I think you just have to get more talent at the position - someone more dynamic and more of a threat. Maybe a few of the other guys find their way back at the minimum, primarily for ST reasons, but does it really matter? Time to start getting younger in some of these spots too.

special teams was awesome this year but co-cap's not getting any younger - he's going to start slowing down eventually and at this point in his career he offers absolutely nothing on defence

the fact that Moore wasn't active every week is pretty telling about how we've managed without him and i dont see any reason we should/would retain him if he isnt even a surefire contender for a gunner spot - duvernay, averett, dorsey, boykin, hill all took on that role at various points and all flashed in that spot (boykin least so but did well enough that he was a legitimate threat on the fake punt we threw his way)

best guess is that levine and richards are back and that if moore's still unsigned after the draft we might bring him back then if we've got a free roster spot

but you're right about everyone in that final category - not a single one of them moves the needle

 

[Simba]

special teams was awesome this year but co-cap's not getting any younger - he's going to start slowing down eventually and at this point in his career he offers absolutely nothing on defence

the fact that Moore wasn't active every week is pretty telling about how we've managed without him and i dont see any reason we should/would retain him if he isnt even a surefire contender for a gunner spot - duvernay, averett, dorsey, boykin, hill all took on that role at various points and all flashed in that spot (boykin least so but did well enough that he was a legitimate threat on the fake punt we threw his way)

best guess is that levine and richards are back and that if moore's still unsigned after the draft we might bring him back then if we've got a free roster spot

but you're right about everyone in that final category - not a single one of them moves the needle

Yeah I mean, if you bring some of those STers back, that's completely fine. I have no complaints whatsoever, but also have to try to improve your actual depth. It's honestly pretty shocking we went all season with Levine and Ricards as the backup safeties. Gotta find a younger guy to play ST and provide depth instead of just having guys that offer no defensive value.

But none of them should really be more than the minimum so no issues if they're re-signed.

 

[rossihunter2]

Yeah I mean, if you bring some of those STers back, that's completely fine. I have no complaints whatsoever, but also have to try to improve your actual depth. It's honestly pretty shocking we went all season with Levine and Ricards as the backup safeties. Gotta find a younger guy to play ST and provide depth instead of just having guys that offer no defensive value.

But none of them should really be more than the minimum so no issues if they're re-signed.

yeah i think the only risk with bringing them back is they can become the so-called "progress-stoppers" by taking away the roster spot of guys with actual potential at the position just because right now they're better special teams players and i get that that's important but there's a balance and i think this year we probably tipped the balance way too far in favour of special teams prowess (possibly to make up for the worst special teams season in a while in 2019)

that being said that also requires us to actually find the younger guys - we thought geno stone might be the next chuck clark/deshon elliott but he clearly wasn't a guy on special teams - and lest we forget that anthony levine for a year or 2 was a great dimeback for us having worked his way into that spot via a career on special teams (and emergency nickel)

there's a clear progression for guys especially at DB to get from special teams to starter to 2nd contract but you have to be able to win special teams snaps early in your career and neither geno stone nor nigel warrior did that this year nor did iman marshall in 2019

averett and deshon have both done it from 2018 and obviously chuck in 2017 but it's now been a couple of drafts without one which isn't a disaster but does potentially leave us light now especially at S and increases the pressure to maybe draft a DB higher than we have since Marlon...

 

[Simba]

yeah i think the only risk with bringing them back is they can become the so-called "progress-stoppers" by taking away the roster spot of guys with actual potential at the position just because right now they're better special teams players and i get that that's important but there's a balance and i think this year we probably tipped the balance way too far in favour of special teams prowess (possibly to make up for the worst special teams season in a while in 2019)

that being said that also requires us to actually find the younger guys - we thought geno stone might be the next chuck clark/deshon elliott but he clearly wasn't a guy on special teams - and lest we forget that anthony levine for a year or 2 was a great dimeback for us having worked his way into that spot via a career on special teams (and emergency nickel)

there's a clear progression for guys especially at DB to get from special teams to starter to 2nd contract but you have to be able to win special teams snaps early in your career and neither geno stone nor nigel warrior did that this year nor did iman marshall in 2019

averett and deshon have both done it from 2018 and obviously chuck in 2017 but it's now been a couple of drafts without one which isn't a disaster but does potentially leave us light now especially at S and increases the pressure to maybe draft a DB higher than we have since Marlon...

I agree with that 100%. Nothing wrong with a couple of guys that are on the team for ST reasons only but we stacked them up this year - Anthony Levine, Jordan Richards, Kristian Welch, Chris Moore, James Proche (kind of). Too much and left us too weak at certain spots. I mean, we lucked out that the PS rules were what they were this year.

 

[rossihunter2]

as expected he moves on - the most obvious candidate to slot into that role in-house would be Zach Orr but he's not got tons of experience as a coach yet but maybe that doesn't matter - he's been with the ravens behind the scenes for 4 seasons now and obviously that's after 3 years playing here too so it's not like he needs any familiarisation with the organisation or anything

but it's an important time to have a LB coach given the Queen and Malik are going into year 2 having not had a proper NFL offseason yet

if it's Orr then I'm really excited for his future and the way he's turned a massive disappointment of his career ending the way it did into a budding exciting coaching career especially as an unheralded udfa only 7 years ago

 

[JAAM]

From our FA perspective, here are my personal thoughts and categories.

1. Edge

Matt Judon
Yannick Ngakoue
Tyus Bowser
Pernell McPhee
Jihad Ward

This all gets lumped together because this is the biggest priority right now. We only have 1 guy under contract (Jaylon Ferguson) and he was a weekly inactive as the OLB6 down the stretch. You have to sign at least 2 of Judon, Ngakoue, Bowser, McPhee, and Ward. Would think you're looking at at least one of Judon/Ngakoue and McPhee for another cheap deal. I think they like Ward and would want to retain him, but I do think he could do a little better on the open market than he did last year. Bowser has a lot of value to us, but think he could be valuable to 4-3 teams as well. Really curious to see what his price is, but I think you need to retain one of him or Judon for the SLB role, which is very complex in our defense.


2. Priorities

Derek Wolfe

In my last iteration, Wolfe had Jimmy Smith and the edge guys flanking him in this category. But with edge moving to it's own spot and Smith being re-signed already, Wolfe stands alone. I see no way this one won't get done.


3. Cheap Keeps

Eric Tomlinson
Justin Ellis
Morgan Cox

Both of the positional players are pure depth guys that I think you absolutely re-sign for the minimum or close to it. Neither would be guaranteed a spot but I see no reason not keep these guys around if you can. Also adding in Morgan Cox here.


4. Who Cares

Willie Snead
Matt Skura
Robert Griffin
Anthony Levine
Chris Moore
DJ Fluker
Tramon Williams
Dez Bryant
Jordan Richards

This list grew a little since the last time I did this. Willie Snead was originally up one rung, but I think you just have to get more talent at the position - someone more dynamic and more of a threat. Maybe a few of the other guys find their way back at the minimum, primarily for ST reasons, but does it really matter? Time to start getting younger in some of these spots too.

Everyone in the “Who Cares” group can go. Love Snead and what he’s done for us but it’s time move on. Dez — no comment. I’d also add Ingram to that group but he’s 99.9 percent gone anyways. I was excited about Fluker but he was god awful. Tomlinson is a must keep in my opinion. Really impressed with him. Everyone and their mom knows how I feel about Judon. I hope he gets offered a fat contract elsewhere.

Great post.

 

[JAAM]

Idc what anyone says. We need a #1 WR and a 2b to Hollywood’s 2a though it could be interchangeable.

Look at the other young QBs in this league and their weapons. Stefon and Beasley have done wonders for Josh. Deshaun and Kyler with Nuk and a a great supporting cast. Herbert with Ekeler, Williams and Allen. Burrow with Higgins and Boyd, Baker with Jarvis, Odell, his TE’s, Higgins, etc.

Give our man some damn weapons. Enough of this bandaid, north side of 30 bullshit. Help his development as a passer so he doesn’t have to put damn near every game on his back with his legs.

 

[JO_75]

as expected he moves on - the most obvious candidate to slot into that role in-house would be Zach Orr but he's not got tons of experience as a coach yet but maybe that doesn't matter - he's been with the ravens behind the scenes for 4 seasons now and obviously that's after 3 years playing here too so it's not like he needs any familiarisation with the organisation or anything

but it's an important time to have a LB coach given the Queen and Malik are going into year 2 having not had a proper NFL offseason yet

if it's Orr then I'm really excited for his future and the way he's turned a massive disappointment of his career ending the way it did into a budding exciting coaching career especially as an unheralded udfa only 7 years ago

I never knew Orr was on our coaching staff, good for him. I still remember when *** all thought he was getting a well deserved contract extension only for it to be sad and he was announcing his retirement. I don't think it's going to be a normal normal offseason until 2022 but I do think we'll see a big jump from Queen and Malik next year regardless.

 

[RL52TheGreatest]

as expected he moves on - the most obvious candidate to slot into that role in-house would be Zach Orr but he's not got tons of experience as a coach yet but maybe that doesn't matter - he's been with the ravens behind the scenes for 4 seasons now and obviously that's after 3 years playing here too so it's not like he needs any familiarisation with the organisation or anything

but it's an important time to have a LB coach given the Queen and Malik are going into year 2 having not had a proper NFL offseason yet

if it's Orr then I'm really excited for his future and the way he's turned a massive disappointment of his career ending the way it did into a budding exciting coaching career especially as an unheralded udfa only 7 years ago

It would be pretty awesome to see Orr get the LB coaching job. Obviously the organization loves him and it seems like he's well respected by the players. He was also a pretty smart player and I'm sure he's been gathering a ton of knowledge from the other coaches the past few years so I have no doubts that he could step into that role and become a good coach in his own right.

 

[cdp]

Idc what anyone says. We need a #1 WR and a 2b to Hollywood’s 2a though it could be interchangeable.

Look at the other young QBs in this league and their weapons. Stefon and Beasley have done wonders for Josh. Deshaun and Kyler with Nuk and a a great supporting cast. Herbert with Ekeler, Williams and Allen. Burrow with Higgins and Boyd, Baker with Jarvis, Odell, his TE’s, Higgins, etc.

Give our man some damn weapons. Enough of this bandaid, north side of 30 bullshit. Help his development as a passer so he doesn’t have to put damn near every game on his back with his legs.

You know what would do wonders for Lamar - having a balanced offense, one that doesn't run him into the ground. So many plays were only converted because Lamar went off-script.

 

[JAAM]

You know what would do wonders for Lamar - having a balanced offense, one that doesn't run him into the ground. So many plays were only converted because Lamar went off-script.

Exactly. Could you imagine giving Lamar complete control of the offense? This pistol formation is bullshit. I’m so sick of it. And Roman never adjusts when it’s inevitably figured out. He just keeps going back to what’s NOT working. It’s not going to win a championship. If we keep Roman, anyone that disagrees with me can write down what I just typed. I really enjoy watching Lamar out of the shotgun, empty or not. He seems more comfortable, especially when the line holds up. You get two more bonafide playmaking WRs for him and USE THEM instead of rolling with one WR out of the pistol against DIME FFS, that would do wonders for his developments.

 

[rossihunter2]

Idc what anyone says. We need a #1 WR and a 2b to Hollywood’s 2a though it could be interchangeable.

Look at the other young QBs in this league and their weapons. Stefon and Beasley have done wonders for Josh. Deshaun and Kyler with Nuk and a a great supporting cast. Herbert with Ekeler, Williams and Allen. Burrow with Higgins and Boyd, Baker with Jarvis, Odell, his TE’s, Higgins, etc.

Give our man some damn weapons. Enough of this bandaid, north side of 30 bullshit. Help his development as a passer so he doesn’t have to put damn near every game on his back with his legs.

we've always put so much on our QBs and prioritised other areas of the team and relied on the QB to cover up those insufficiencies - im not sure that can fly in the modern day bombs away passing game based NFL - and tbf i think EDC knows that too - we've drafted as many day 1 and 2 receivers in the last 2 drafts as we had in the previous 12 drafts before that

need to take some swings with high picks - i put the figures somewhere (probably posted them last night - but the steelers by comparison have drafted day 1/2 WRs constantly - 4 in the last 4 classes, 5 in the last 6, 6 in the last 8, 8 in the last 12 and 11 in the last 15 draft classes)

 

[rossihunter2]

It would be pretty awesome to see Orr get the LB coaching job. Obviously the organization loves him and it seems like he's well respected by the players. He was also a pretty smart player and I'm sure he's been gathering a ton of knowledge from the other coaches the past few years so I have no doubts that he could step into that role and become a good coach in his own right.

ive noticed him a lot on the sideline this year during the wired segments too - seems to be fairly prominent on the sidelines - his official title at the moment is "coaching analyst - defense" supposedly as part of the analytics department but seems to be on the sidelines with the players as a gameday coach so would suggest that right now that's the track he's on

 

[rossihunter2]

You know what would do wonders for Lamar - having a balanced offense, one that doesn't run him into the ground. So many plays were only converted because Lamar went off-script.

last year we seemed to be able to get him lots of clean passing windows and at least some guys open (or guys he could throw open from the pocket)

this year it felt like so often the biggest passing plays were in scramble drills or panic-scramble running-for-his-life mode

 

[JAAM]

we've always put so much on our QBs and prioritised other areas of the team and relied on the QB to cover up those insufficiencies - im not sure that can fly in the modern day bombs away passing game based NFL - and tbf i think EDC knows that too - we've drafted as many day 1 and 2 receivers in the last 2 drafts as we had in the previous 12 drafts before that

need to take some swings with high picks - i put the figures somewhere (probably posted them last night - but the steelers by comparison have drafted day 1/2 WRs constantly - 4 in the last 4 classes, 5 in the last 6, 6 in the last 8, 8 in the last 12 and 11 in the last 15 draft classes)

I just don’t trust us drafting WRs high anymore. Hollywood has really shown improvement after the Browns game but he’s best suited as a compliment to a true #1. I hope we go the Boldin route and trade for someone, or sign a Golladay/Robinson. FWIW, Robinson liked a tweet saying Lamar needs a true #1 WR. I trust EDC wholeheartedly though.

 

[RavensMania]

last year we seemed to be able to get him lots of clean passing windows and at least some guys open (or guys he could throw open from the pocket)

this year it felt like so often the biggest passing plays were in scramble drills or panic-scramble running-for-his-life mode

yep, can't understand what went wrong from last year to this year and it's more than "they figured it out"

I remember hearing the great coaches / offensive coordinators saying offenses evolve atleast 30% annually and I just don't think Roman evolved.

 

[Deebo813]

Idc what anyone says. We need a #1 WR and a 2b to Hollywood’s 2a though it could be interchangeable.

Look at the other young QBs in this league and their weapons. Stefon and Beasley have done wonders for Josh. Deshaun and Kyler with Nuk and a a great supporting cast. Herbert with Ekeler, Williams and Allen. Burrow with Higgins and Boyd, Baker with Jarvis, Odell, his TE’s, Higgins, etc.

Give our man some damn weapons. Enough of this bandaid, north side of 30 bullshit. Help his development as a passer so he doesn’t have to put damn near every game on his back with his legs.

im all for weapons but he still has to
Improve also.. if not, no matter who we get him there wont be much change

 

[rossihunter2]

I just don’t trust us drafting WRs high anymore. Hollywood has really shown improvement after the Browns game but he’s best suited as a compliment to a true #1. I hope we go the Boldin route and trade for someone, or sign a Golladay/Robinson. FWIW, Robinson liked a tweet saying Lamar needs a true #1 WR. I trust EDC wholeheartedly though.

i mean who outside of breshad perriman have we drafted and not developed i guess would be my question...

boykin looks like a miss but it's too early to say for sure on duvernay and hollywood looks like a good pick (albeit not quite the number 1 you'd wish for but he's certainly not been a miss and is 100% a quality starter and is averaging over 100 yds per playoff game through his first 3)

i really do think we just need to take more swings because i dont think any high quality free agent is going to choose to come here unless we blow other teams' offers out of the water which is not a good way of doing good business in free agency (especially in a down cap year)

if we can bring in someone like allen robinson then great - i still think we should be drafting more guys too

 

[rossihunter2]

im all for weapons but he still has to
Improve also.. if not, no matter who we get him there wont be much change

but at least you'll know

if you surround him with weapons and he can't do it then at least you know he can't do it - and added bonus... the weapons are already in place ready for the next guy in the room if you do decide to move on