The 2021 Offseason Thread

[ravenslord]

I always thought Orlando would be a Raven for a long time. How disappointing this is and its very rare to see a Ravens player demand a trade!

The Ravens organization is one of the best so I'm a little surprised by this . I guess Brown just wants that LT instead of RT money. Pathetic.

 

[rossihunter2]

I always thought Orlando would be a Raven for a long time. How disappointing this is and its very rare to see a Ravens player demand a trade!

The Ravens organization is one of the best so I'm a little surprised by this . I guess Brown just wants that LT instead of RT money. Pathetic.

find it odd that the 2018 class might be the one of the 2 best draft classes we've ever had in franchise history and yet there's a distinct possibility that's still true despite...

the first person getting a 2nd contract being the 7th round pick we let go (Sieler in Miami)
2 of our first 3 (and 3 of our first 6) picks might be traded away before the end of their rookie deals

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I like the idea of trading brown for a player+ swapping firsts. Our lack of a third really hurts though and if we do that I’d really like to get a third as well

 

[JAAM]

I always thought Orlando would be a Raven for a long time. How disappointing this is and its very rare to see a Ravens player demand a trade!

The Ravens organization is one of the best so I'm a little surprised by this . I guess Brown just wants that LT instead of RT money. Pathetic.

Damn yea I just thought about this. Has a Raven EVER requested a trade? I can’t think of one in recent memory at all

 

[JAAM]

find it odd that the 2018 class might be the one of the 2 best draft classes we've ever had in franchise history and yet there's a distinct possibility that's still true despite...

the first person getting a 2nd contract being the 7th round pick we let go (Sieler in Miami)
2 of our first 3 (and 3 of our first 6) picks might be traded away before the end of their rookie deals

Holy shit I completely forgot about Sieler. He’s playing well?

 

[rossihunter2]

Damn yea I just thought about this. Has a Raven EVER requested a trade? I can’t think of one in recent memory at all

hayden hurst last year...

 

[rossihunter2]

Holy shit I completely forgot about Sieler. He’s playing well?

i mean not top of the league crazy mistake well

but well enough that he earned himself an early 2 year extension worth 7.6m and is now under contract for the next 3 years...

 

[JAAM]

hayden hurst last year...

Shit, I forgot because he didn’t make it public and kept off social media. I wonder what would’ve happened though had the Ravens declined. He doesn’t seem like the kind to make a scene

 

[ravenslord]

hayden hurst last year...

Other than that though , how far back do you have to go to find someone else demanding a trade .

 

[rossihunter2]

Other than that though , how far back do you have to go to find someone else demanding a trade .

i cant think of one - but we normally handle this stuff in-house so unlikely we'd know about it unless a trade actually happened a la Hurst

 

[JoeyFlex5]

i mean not top of the league crazy mistake well

but well enough that he earned himself an early 2 year extension worth 7.6m and is now under contract for the next 3 years...

I actually thought in my gut it was premature. Like I figured the ravens knew what they were doing, but I felt like we should’ve given the guy more time, I thought his ceiling was high enough.

hell probably never be much more than a low depth chart rotational guy, but that has value here in Baltimore

 

[rossihunter2]

I actually thought in my gut it was premature. Like I figured the ravens knew what they were doing, but I felt like we should’ve given the guy more time, I thought his ceiling was high enough.

hell probably never be much more than a low depth chart rotational guy, but that has value here in Baltimore

i felt the same way about senat too lol

but sieler showed flashes (but was a bit stiff) but he was stuck down the depth chart and would have still been stuck down the depth chart so it's not like we really lost anything - but yeah it's a bit of a shame we gave up on ozzie's last pick so soon especially given that he's turned into a decent pro

 

[JoeyFlex5]

i felt the same way about senat too lol

but sieler showed flashes (but was a bit stiff) but he was stuck down the depth chart and would have still been stuck down the depth chart so it's not like we really lost anything - but yeah it's a bit of a shame we gave up on ozzie's last pick so soon especially given that he's turned into a decent pro

Lol same for senat too, I was flat out disappointed and confused when we let him go, like that one made zero sense to me. I saw a very good backup who could play either side fairly well if a starter goes down, could’ve really used him in 2020, and he would make this brown decision easier too, because I’d feel better moving on from a starter if we had senat as depth, instead of Phillips

 

[rossihunter2]

Lol same for senat too, I was flat out disappointed and confused when we let him go, like that one made zero sense to me. I saw a very good backup who could play either side fairly well if a starter goes down, could’ve really used him in 2020, and he would make this brown decision easier too, because I’d feel better moving on from a starter if we had senat as depth, instead of Phillips

at least we would have known 1 way or the other with Senat lol - i cant imagine he'd have been worse than Fluker/Phillips at the RT spot though

 

[rmcjacket23]

I always thought Orlando would be a Raven for a long time. How disappointing this is and its very rare to see a Ravens player demand a trade!

The Ravens organization is one of the best so I'm a little surprised by this . I guess Brown just wants that LT instead of RT money. Pathetic.

To be honest... I'm not sure why anybody WOULD think he'd be here beyond his rookie deal. Like you could read the tea leaves 12 months ago.

Stanley played the more premier position and frankly was probably a better overall player when he does play, and he just got paid elite LT money. There's no way the Ravens were ever going to pay like $40M to a QB and $18-20M each to a pair of Tackles at the same time. Even on a $200M+ salary cap, that's going to hurt you badly.

I thought it was blatantly obvious even before 2020 than Brown was going to hit FA in 2022 and being playing elsewhere. I honestly wasn't sure if that would be at LT or RT, but its not exactly uncommon that a team would sign an elite RT to at least compete at LT. And given that Brown got a good sample size this year there, I don't blame him.

This was always going to come down to Stanley vs Brown, and the FO keeping one and letting the other walk. And a top 10 pick who plays at an elite level is going to win that battle over a 3rd rounder who plays at an elite level pretty much 99% of the time. And I don't fault the Ravens at all for any decision they've made so far in with these two players.

 

[Grim]

In a normal year, I'd agree with you. We'd look to add a veteran RT, so that going in the draft, we're not pigeon-holed there. This year, however, there's so little cap space available, and a good chunk of it may be going either to retain players we already had last year (pass rushers) or to extend Lamar. In which case, the ability to add a Tackle in FA becomes that much more challenging. In addition, I've looked at the Tackle FA market, and as it stands today, I don't know that I remember a year worse than this one to need a Tackle in FA. That could change with roster cuts, but that's what I see today. Its total garbage. Like Fluker looks good in this market.

The added advantage of keeping Brown another year, knowing you have the same problem next year, is well, another year. You can two drafts to add Tackles instead of one, and you get two FA periods. More money likely to be available next year, and it would be hard for it to be a worse FA class than it is now.

If Orlando Brown were a FA this offseason, given how bad that market is, he would get AT LEAST $20M annually, and I'm not convinced he wouldn't be the highest paid Tackle in league history. And I don't think he is the best Tackle in the league, but the market is just so egregious right now.

So regardless of whether they trade him or not, I think they need to add two Tackles this offseason into the mix, through a combination of draft picks and/or free agent signings.

I agree that if we trade Brown we need to draft two tackles. I just disagree that we need to get a guy in the first or second. That doesn’t mean I would hate it because I think it would be a smart move because you’re probably getting a versatile OT who can play either spot. I think there’s FA options out there and that will be out there. I’m also not saying we need to trade Brown if we don’t get the compensation I think he’s worth. I’m perfectly fine keeping Orlando here another year and calling his bluff.

the benefit to doing it this year (if we're forced) is that we likely get better compensation than a potential comp pick (and more immediate compensation) and we also get to potentially address it in a good tackle class - no idea what next year's looks like but other than this upcoming class and the 2020 class it's not been a great looking decade outside of 2011 and 2016 for tackle classes

who know's when the next good one will be

True, I’ve always thought this was the year to get some OL depth and Orlando just makes that more obvious. We always needed depth on the OL. We need a swing T for years and we needed an OT to replace Brown next year but this OT class looks to be really damn good so get that guy now regardless.

 

[Simba]

I actually thought in my gut it was premature. Like I figured the ravens knew what they were doing, but I felt like we should’ve given the guy more time, I thought his ceiling was high enough.

hell probably never be much more than a low depth chart rotational guy, but that has value here in Baltimore

2019 was a rough year of roster transactions. With both Sieler and Senat, they got caught in the numbers game when injuries started to hit, and I too think they were the wrong decisions. We had guys like Brynden Trawick and Justin Bethel (who eventually turned into Jordan Richards) who were pure STers. All the while, we were also holding onto guys like Jaleel Scott, Ben Powers, and Daylon Mack who didn't play many games for us. Powers looks like a good decision now of course, but still tough to have that many guys on the 53 without any semblance of a role.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I agree that if we trade Brown we need to draft two tackles. I just disagree that we need to get a guy in the first or second. That doesn’t mean I would hate it because I think it would be a smart move because you’re probably getting a versatile OT who can play either spot. I think there’s FA options out there and that will be out there. I’m also not saying we need to trade Brown if we don’t get the compensation I think he’s worth. I’m perfectly fine keeping Orlando here another year and calling his bluff.

True, I’ve always thought this was the year to get some OL depth and Orlando just makes that more obvious. We always needed depth on the OL. We need a swing T for years and we needed an OT to replace Brown next year but this OT class looks to be really damn good so get that guy now regardless.

Well, lets face it... if you're drafting two tackles, at least one of them is coming before the end of day 2. Just on sheer volume of picks alone that's how its going to work out. So we would take one in the first three rounds. I seriously doubt the FO is going to say they made a strong attempt to replace Brown by selecting Tackles in the 6th and 7th rounds. They know very well the likelihood of those players panning out is very small.

Like we can talk about "best player available" all day long, but the reality is, the Ravens have really never actually adopted that model at its core. They adopt a BPA... at a position of need model. They don't just say "WR is our biggest need, we must take a WR in round 1". But the reality is, like every other team in the league, we'll go into the draft with several needs across several positions. And our draft picks, not coincidentally, almost always fill those positions. Especially true at the top end of the draft. When you get into the late rounds, they're all dart throws, so sure, we may draft a RB in the 6th or 7th, even though we may not need one.

If the best player available when we pick in the 1st round is a RB, we won't take him. It doesn't matter how high he's ranked or what the pundits think about it. The Ravens "board" is designed in a way that said player will never be the best player on the board at that point. They don't just arbitrarily rank all players in a vacuum. They focus on positions that this team needs to upgrade, and work from there.

And in 2021, there's very few positions where we couldn't use an upgrade, so the board becomes much more wide open. They could use a first round pick legitimately on anything besides QB, RB, and MAYBE Corner, and even then, I don't think Corner is out of the question. I could legitimately justify them using a first round pick on literally every other non-ST position on the field. We could use upgrades at every spot.

And that's saying something from a playoff team.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Well, lets face it... if you're drafting two tackles, at least one of them is coming before the end of day 2. Just on sheer volume of picks alone that's how its going to work out. So we would take one in the first three rounds. I seriously doubt the FO is going to say they made a strong attempt to replace Brown by selecting Tackles in the 6th and 7th rounds. They know very well the likelihood of those players panning out is very small.

Like we can talk about "best player available" all day long, but the reality is, the Ravens have really never actually adopted that model at its core. They adopt a BPA... at a position of need model. They don't just say "WR is our biggest need, we must take a WR in round 1". But the reality is, like every other team in the league, we'll go into the draft with several needs across several positions. And our draft picks, not coincidentally, almost always fill those positions. Especially true at the top end of the draft. When you get into the late rounds, they're all dart throws, so sure, we may draft a RB in the 6th or 7th, even though we may not need one.

If the best player available when we pick in the 1st round is a RB, we won't take him. It doesn't matter how high he's ranked or what the pundits think about it. The Ravens "board" is designed in a way that said player will never be the best player on the board at that point. They don't just arbitrarily rank all players in a vacuum. They focus on positions that this team needs to upgrade, and work from there.

And in 2021, there's very few positions where we couldn't use an upgrade, so the board becomes much more wide open. They could use a first round pick legitimately on anything besides QB, RB, and MAYBE Corner, and even then, I don't think Corner is out of the question. I could legitimately justify them using a first round pick on literally every other non-ST position on the field. We could use upgrades at every spot.

And that's saying something from a playoff team.

I would say add inside/offball LB to that list. With the four guys we have and the investment plus our safety tandem, and the general shit value of the position, I’d absolutely hate if we spent anything prior to round 6 on that. I’d also not be too fond a pure 0tech type of guy prior to round 4. A good looking 3tech or hybrid type of DL would be exciting, and actually it’s a very interesting position for me, but if we took a pure nose early I’d be pretty bummed

 

[Grim]

Well, lets face it... if you're drafting two tackles, at least one of them is coming before the end of day 2. Just on sheer volume of picks alone that's how its going to work out. So we would take one in the first three rounds. I seriously doubt the FO is going to say they made a strong attempt to replace Brown by selecting Tackles in the 6th and 7th rounds. They know very well the likelihood of those players panning out is very small.

Like we can talk about "best player available" all day long, but the reality is, the Ravens have really never actually adopted that model at its core. They adopt a BPA... at a position of need model. They don't just say "WR is our biggest need, we must take a WR in round 1". But the reality is, like every other team in the league, we'll go into the draft with several needs across several positions. And our draft picks, not coincidentally, almost always fill those positions. Especially true at the top end of the draft. When you get into the late rounds, they're all dart throws, so sure, we may draft a RB in the 6th or 7th, even though we may not need one.

If the best player available when we pick in the 1st round is a RB, we won't take him. It doesn't matter how high he's ranked or what the pundits think about it. The Ravens "board" is designed in a way that said player will never be the best player on the board at that point. They don't just arbitrarily rank all players in a vacuum. They focus on positions that this team needs to upgrade, and work from there.

And in 2021, there's very few positions where we couldn't use an upgrade, so the board becomes much more wide open. They could use a first round pick legitimately on anything besides QB, RB, and MAYBE Corner, and even then, I don't think Corner is out of the question. I could legitimately justify them using a first round pick on literally every other non-ST position on the field. We could use upgrades at every spot.

And that's saying something from a playoff team.

Okay, I just said I don’t think we have to pick an OT in the first or second. The third round pick is a comp
, so yeah—I’m good with that. That’s what I originally said too was 3rd is fine but I don’t think we’re required to take one before then either. I just don’t think we’re compelled to take one before the 3rd. I think we’re fine. As for your point on drafting a 6th or 7th round pick, I disagree there because I think we absolutely do think that they would think those guys are “strong efforts” to replace Brown and come in and contribute based on what I saw before. I can’t remember the position or draft but I know we did something similar and I thought that was a bit stupid. I also agree on BPA because we clearly take best player available at positions we could use.