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The 2021 Offseason Thread

Grim

Ravens Ring of Honor
True. But the further down in the draft you go, the likelihood of that player succeeding dwindles.

And there aren't many paths where I can see us significantly downgrading our offensive line and still being an actual SB contender. Doesn't mean we can't upgrade at like Center or even Guard, and so maybe the unit itself is fine.

But overall, if the offseason emphasis is improving pass protection for your soon to be highly paid QB, I'm not certain that trading away one of his best protectors, with no obvious replacements, is a great way to do that.

Its inevitable that he won't be here in 2022, and I understand the desire to "get value". But I better make sure that "value" includes a reasonable approach to make the whole line better.
Eh, I don't know. I think that we've shown we can draft guys in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and beyond. We've also failed at it too. The Draft is so tricky and honestly, I've said this before, but I don't think we approach the draft with a hole at RT unless we are comfortable with who we have to play there. Typically the Ravens want to have their holes filled before approaching the Draft to avoid those situations. If anything, Orlando leaving makes it harder for us to retain a pass rusher than reaching for a T. I could even see us go and sign a FA G or C to move Mekari even to RT or have a rotation there to see who can step up & just admit it will be a weakness and let it roll. My point here is one you've made a lot: there's no guarantee whoever we get to replace Brown--1st round pick or 7th round pick--will be even half as good as he is today for us this year. It is also very unlikely, even. So, I would just accept that position as a weakness before trying to force it.

Now, with that said, would I take a first round pick at OT? Hell yes! I would love it because it means if anything ever happens to Stanley you could probably switch him to LT because that player would likely be someone who could do both. Hell, we could even likely take the aging vet approach and sign some free agent guy to play RT for us as well on the cheap. I don't care if we trade Brown Jr or not honestly, it makes no difference to me. It's a win-win for us and I've said that from the beginning. Trading him would only happen if the value is right for me otherwise I keep him and keep a good player for a run. Regardless of our decision, we still need to draft a T in the Draft to address our lack of depth.
 

Simba

Staff Member
Moderator
Again, more from Lombardi. Not sure how much you want to take this is gospel but interesting nonetheless.

"JLC got the scoop from Zeus' agent, Joe Panos. Panos doesn't feed JLC unless there's a motive. We're now witnessing the results.

The Ravens don't like to do business through the media. The added noise could sway some teams to take something less just to grease the squeaky wheel. EDC doesn't operate that way. I think the Ravens are completely comfortable with Zeus playing another season under his rookie contract and then picking up what is likely to be a 3rd round comp in 2023 when Orlando leaves. From what I'm told there IS NOT a strained relationship between Zeus and the team and as such, it could work if he stays. But now that the agent (with JLC's help & now Rapoport) has kicked down that door, I think it's more likely he is traded away.

I do know that EDC put the kabash on a deal last offseason when an unseasoned agent leaked the news. The more experienced agents understand how the Ravens do business and they will contain leaks until the ink dries."
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
I don’t think it’s that serious, I think there’s nothing but respect from both sides, and if he’s traded I think he’s gonna see the grass isn’t greener, but I think he’s gonna at least force a few teams to make strong offers, whether they’re strong enough for Eric’s liking is yet to be seen

i think that's where i wonder if the relationship might sour - if there's offers on the table facilitated by Brown but EDC decides none of them are good enough - would that be enough to turn the relationship toxic or have they established that from the outset (you'd assume given how honest Ozzie was with the players that EDC would be upfront with him about the fact that it would have to be a convincing haul for us to trade him away)
 

Grim

Ravens Ring of Honor
haha - i like the "major haul" part of this lol - but idk - at least despite all this the relationship seems good between the ravens and orlando... and EDC's basically said we're not gonna stop you if you really want to go but the onus is on you to find us the deal that lets that happen

and if Orlando finds us a major haul then fine
That's exactly how I feel. I see no reason to move Orlando unless we get an "offer you can't refuse". I like the idea of getting a 2nd round pick when we would only get a third, but a Super Bowl run is worth more than that to me.
Okay to be honest the thing that brought on the "bye Felicia" was him retweeting his reasons for wanting to play LT. I just don't like negotiating through the media. That's my thing.
The media thing is tiring but this is every athlete almost now.
Again, more from Lombardi. Not sure how much you want to take this is gospel but interesting nonetheless.

"JLC got the scoop from Zeus' agent, Joe Panos. Panos doesn't feed JLC unless there's a motive. We're now witnessing the results.

The Ravens don't like to do business through the media. The added noise could sway some teams to take something less just to grease the squeaky wheel. EDC doesn't operate that way. I think the Ravens are completely comfortable with Zeus playing another season under his rookie contract and then picking up what is likely to be a 3rd round comp in 2023 when Orlando leaves. From what I'm told there IS NOT a strained relationship between Zeus and the team and as such, it could work if he stays. But now that the agent (with JLC's help & now Rapoport) has kicked down that door, I think it's more likely he is traded away.

I do know that EDC put the kabash on a deal last offseason when an unseasoned agent leaked the news. The more experienced agents understand how the Ravens do business and they will contain leaks until the ink dries."
What deal did EDC put the "kabash" on last year? Or is it undisclosed?
 

Corvus Purpura

Practice Squad
it is dumb albeit ive been reading about lane johnson and he apparently went through a lot of the same mentality stuff about being RT - was helped by the reminder that there's not really much difference anymore and that the best pass rushers are often rushing from his side

but also worth noting he's the best RT in the league but his contract would only be the 4th highest at LT

i guess orlando really took what his dad said to heart and doesn't care that the NFL has changed since then because his dad said it and he wants to honour that - which i completely understand - just a bit bizarre that this is only becoming an issue now - obviously idk orlando brown sr lol but got to think he'd be more happy that his son was playing in multiple pro bowls for the Ravens even at RT than being an LT just anywhere

but the prestige of that LT spot seems to be the 1 thing we can't give Orlando

Just to throw a grenade of something completely different into the discussion, what about trying Stanley at RT with Orlando on the left?
(I know, Stanley has been paid, might have the same emotional issues with respect to the right side, etc.)
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
i think that's where i wonder if the relationship might sour - if there's offers on the table facilitated by Brown but EDC decides none of them are good enough - would that be enough to turn the relationship toxic or have they established that from the outset (you'd assume given how honest Ozzie was with the players that EDC would be upfront with him about the fact that it would have to be a convincing haul for us to trade him away)
If it sours on his way out the door then oh well, I just don’t think there could be enough bad blood, it’s been nothing but love since he got here and he’s been a highly respected player and he should understand that value matters, considering he’s doing all of this to begin with.
 

JAAM

Hall of Famer


Major haul indeed.
 

JAAM

Hall of Famer
Would a tag and trade for ARob even make sense financially if we’re sending over Brown? Lots of Bears fans floating that around.
 

Grim

Ravens Ring of Honor
Would a tag and trade for ARob even make sense financially if we’re sending over Brown? Lots of Bears fans floating that around.
What else would they include because that seems a bit stupid to just tag ARob to trade him when we could've signed him in FA. They would still need to give up a bit to even make that deal because all it gives us is the opportunity to negotiate exclusively with him or have him for a year if he wants to play here (seems like it, just saying the obvious)
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Just to throw a grenade of something completely different into the discussion, what about trying Stanley at RT with Orlando on the left?
(I know, Stanley has been paid, might have the same emotional issues with respect to the right side, etc.)

but why would we do that?

my real question would be would Orlando have the same issue if our Qb was left-handed lol...
 

JAAM

Hall of Famer
What else would they include because that seems a bit stupid to just tag ARob to trade him when we could've signed him in FA. They would still need to give up a bit to even make that deal because all it gives us is the opportunity to negotiate exclusively with him or have him for a year if he wants to play here (seems like it, just saying the obvious)
Oh they talked about swapping 1sts as well. Didn’t mention that
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Eh, I don't know. I think that we've shown we can draft guys in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and beyond. We've also failed at it too. The Draft is so tricky and honestly, I've said this before, but I don't think we approach the draft with a hole at RT unless we are comfortable with who we have to play there. Typically the Ravens want to have their holes filled before approaching the Draft to avoid those situations. If anything, Orlando leaving makes it harder for us to retain a pass rusher than reaching for a T. I could even see us go and sign a FA G or C to move Mekari even to RT or have a rotation there to see who can step up & just admit it will be a weakness and let it roll. My point here is one you've made a lot: there's no guarantee whoever we get to replace Brown--1st round pick or 7th round pick--will be even half as good as he is today for us this year. It is also very unlikely, even. So, I would just accept that position as a weakness before trying to force it.

Now, with that said, would I take a first round pick at OT? Hell yes! I would love it because it means if anything ever happens to Stanley you could probably switch him to LT because that player would likely be someone who could do both. Hell, we could even likely take the aging vet approach and sign some free agent guy to play RT for us as well on the cheap. I don't care if we trade Brown Jr or not honestly, it makes no difference to me. It's a win-win for us and I've said that from the beginning. Trading him would only happen if the value is right for me otherwise I keep him and keep a good player for a run. Regardless of our decision, we still need to draft a T in the Draft to address our lack of depth.
In a normal year, I'd agree with you. We'd look to add a veteran RT, so that going in the draft, we're not pigeon-holed there. This year, however, there's so little cap space available, and a good chunk of it may be going either to retain players we already had last year (pass rushers) or to extend Lamar. In which case, the ability to add a Tackle in FA becomes that much more challenging. In addition, I've looked at the Tackle FA market, and as it stands today, I don't know that I remember a year worse than this one to need a Tackle in FA. That could change with roster cuts, but that's what I see today. Its total garbage. Like Fluker looks good in this market.

The added advantage of keeping Brown another year, knowing you have the same problem next year, is well, another year. You can two drafts to add Tackles instead of one, and you get two FA periods. More money likely to be available next year, and it would be hard for it to be a worse FA class than it is now.

If Orlando Brown were a FA this offseason, given how bad that market is, he would get AT LEAST $20M annually, and I'm not convinced he wouldn't be the highest paid Tackle in league history. And I don't think he is the best Tackle in the league, but the market is just so egregious right now.

So regardless of whether they trade him or not, I think they need to add two Tackles this offseason into the mix, through a combination of draft picks and/or free agent signings.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
not sure that moving up 7 spots in R1 is really enough to justify taking on 14m extra cap that we can't spread across multiple years
I would say taking on a franchise tagged player at any position that's not Kicker or Punter, at this point, is pretty much impossible, given our cap situation. We can't afford to take on one year, high-end market value deals. Anybody we could trade for or sign, with a respectable or higher price point, would have to be on a multi-year deal.
 

redrum52

Hall of Famer
honestly with the way lamar's been hesitant to throw contested balls i think we just have to find a guy who separates

not much good having someone who wins in contested situations if lamar's never gonna but the ball in that spot to contest

i dont really care how they separate but i want someone who's great in the route more than i want someone who's great at the catch-point


partly i suppose it could be about trust and maybe if we had someone who was a baller at the catch-point lamar might be less hesitant to throw but idk

allen robinson is clearly both of those things which is why it's rare someone like him hits the market (maybe a top 5-10 route-runner in the league right now and also great at the catch-point)

but if i had to pick one of those traits i want the separation

allen robinson would be amazing for Lamar but i think it's more about the intermediate route-running and separation than it is about the "big-body"

Your first 2 points are the reasons I think people are crazy for wanting Golladay. How often have we seen Lamar just trust guys outside of Andrews? Robinson is my preferred choice, too, but realize it's highly unlikely.
 
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