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The 2021 Offseason Thread

rossihunter2 said:


which would make sense - if it is this then i dont see him getting i/red - best case is he's getting back to limited training and practicing around week 1/2 and worst case would put him back at practice after week 3
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4 weeks puts him available on the 10th, which is just before week 1. Would think that's probably a little optimistic, assuming he wouldn't practice that fourth week.

Four weeks of recovery post-surgery plus one week of practice would have him 5 weeks post surgery before the Chiefs game on SNF on the 19th.

Obviously wouldn't expect him to be a world-beater and would likely see snap limitations, but better than nothing.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
I mean its possible. The two issues I have with that is...
1. We will know more about his timeline by the time they have to make that decision. But if he's healthy by, say, September 15th, why put him on IR to make him sit another 2+ weeks? Like I guess you could make the case about getting him more practice time, but I'm not putting a key player on IR for conservativism.
2. If they did that, are they just gonna cut Levine in Week 4 when he returns? I doubt it. Honestly, if they're cutting Levine, they'll almost certainly do it to give him a chance to play elsewhere. I seriously doubt the Ravens are going to keep Levine on for 3 weeks and then dump him midseason. There's other less valued vets or early year players they'd do that to, but not Levine I don't think.

Again this will all shake out by like early September when final roster decisions are made. They'll have basically 3 weeks of surgery/recovery to figure out what his timeline is, and go from there.
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The timeline thing is a legit concern. I’ll give you that

But the Levine thing is different. The idea would be to cut him to open up that spot for cutdown day so you don’t have to expose someone. Inevitably, someone is likely to get hurt by time you have to bring Bateman back in this scenario. And if they don’t, then you just have a decision to make at that point. It’s not a cut Levine (or another vested vet) to cut him again later. It’s a cut him because he doesn’t have to go through waivers and you can then hold a young guy for a little longer and maybe you don’t have to hope they slide through waivers.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
4 weeks puts him available on the 10th, which is just before week 1. Would think that's probably a little optimistic, assuming he wouldn't practice that fourth week.

Four weeks of recovery post-surgery plus one week of practice would have him 5 weeks post surgery before the Chiefs game on SNF on the 19th.

Obviously wouldn't expect him to be a world-beater and would likely see snap limitations, but better than nothing.
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slightly less optimistic recovery timeline from this guy...
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
I wasn’t expecting Bateman back until at least mid September to begin with, none of those “potentially week 1” predictions seemed realistic at all
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as a layperson just reading around - week 3 would seem like an optimistic target for potentially a first appearance albeit on a pitch count

week 6 seems like the worst-case
 
Is it fair to say the Proche has been outcompeting Duvernay in camp? Do we think that will translate to anything in the real season?
 
Sizzle said:
1) Bateman has never had injury issues before. Who knows, the constant muscle spasms/tightness may have been due to his muscle about to give out which it ended up doing, thankfully early in the training camp; 2) Perriman hasn’t had major issues with injuries since rookie year. His problem isn’t with durability, it’s with talent
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he had another issue in year 2 where he missed camp but I don't believe he missed games that year as it was his best year.
 
RavensMania said:
he had another issue in year 2 where he missed camp but I don't believe he missed games that year as it was his best year.
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Yep! I sometimes wonder if he wasn’t held out the full year because of refusal to get surgery, and/or because the Ravens didn’t want him to look completely like a total failure in hopes of him developing eventually
 
I’m just wondering if we can ever pick a No .1 receiver that is durable .Is Torrey Smith ,a 2nd rounder, our only receiver draft pick that was successful and durable?
 
UPennChem said:
Is it fair to say the Proche has been outcompeting Duvernay in camp? Do we think that will translate to anything in the real season?
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Man I want to see a ton of Proche in preseason. If he shines in preseason I have no qualms about putting him 4th in the depth chart. Once Watkins misses his yearly games, Proche will be in the slot as a starter and I believe he’ll do fantastic
 
ravenslord said:
I’m just wondering if we can ever pick a No .1 receiver that is durable .Is Torrey Smith ,a 2nd rounder, our only receiver draft pick that was successful and durable?
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Chill my man! I was the biggest against all of Bateman’s muscle tightness… but I think it majorly stems from this injury he’s getting corrected now. I feel it finally gave out completely. Otherwise the guy has been very very durable and tough
 
Simba said:
The timeline thing is a legit concern. I’ll give you that

But the Levine thing is different. The idea would be to cut him to open up that spot for cutdown day so you don’t have to expose someone. Inevitably, someone is likely to get hurt by time you have to bring Bateman back in this scenario. And if they don’t, then you just have a decision to make at that point. It’s not a cut Levine (or another vested vet) to cut him again later. It’s a cut him because he doesn’t have to go through waivers and you can then hold a young guy for a little longer and maybe you don’t have to hope they slide through waivers.
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I understand this. My point is whatever fringe roster player I'm "keeping" for this... what is that player going to do? Most likely be a gameday inactive for those weeks anyway? So I'm not even sure how that player is benefiting me on Sunday, and if he is, then he likely won't be the one getting cut when Bateman returns.

I mean its not exactly position for position (since that's not how teams look at things), but if Bateman goes on IR, it would mean we would potentially carry another WR, since we're down one.
So hypothetically we want to carry six receivers on the 53 man. Bateman goes to IR. Who are the six receivers? Hollywood, Duvernay, Watkins, Wallace look like the four locks. Bateman would be the 5th, but he's on IR. So you've got two spots left. Proche is having a hell of a camp by all accounts, so he gets a spot. So it's your sixth guy, who lets just say, is Boykin.

Are we dressing six on gameday? Highly doubt it. That fringe roster player we kept is likely in street clothes on Sunday, and then we're dropping him when Bateman returns. He provides no value on Sunday. I think you could say that for just about any player, regardless of position, since there's 5 guys per week who won't dress.

Which is why I say... what's the point? The only way that makes sense is if you get to a point at cut time when you realize Bateman isn't playing by week 3. Then sure, if the guy isn't coming back in 3 weeks, put him on IR. If I think I have a chance of him being active in week 2 or week 3, I'm not putting him on IR just to keep a fringe roster player who won't play on Sunday's. Said player still has to go on waivers in week 4 or whenever we cut, and they may even have a better chance of making somebody else's team at that point.
 
UPennChem said:
Is it fair to say the Proche has been outcompeting Duvernay in camp? Do we think that will translate to anything in the real season?
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they play 2 different positions and have 2 different roles - there's some crossover but duvernay's gonna be asked to do stuff on the outside and in motion that proche won't be - likewise we're probably not asking duvernay to run some of the shorter/intermediate routes in the slot that proche's gonna be asked to make

there will be a role for both - especially with bateman sidelined for a little while
 
rmcjacket23 said:
I understand this. My point is whatever fringe roster player I'm "keeping" for this... what is that player going to do? Most likely be a gameday inactive for those weeks anyway? So I'm not even sure how that player is benefiting me on Sunday, and if he is, then he likely won't be the one getting cut when Bateman returns.

I mean its not exactly position for position (since that's not how teams look at things), but if Bateman goes on IR, it would mean we would potentially carry another WR, since we're down one.
So hypothetically we want to carry six receivers on the 53 man. Bateman goes to IR. Who are the six receivers? Hollywood, Duvernay, Watkins, Wallace look like the four locks. Bateman would be the 5th, but he's on IR. So you've got two spots left. Proche is having a hell of a camp by all accounts, so he gets a spot. So it's your sixth guy, who lets just say, is Boykin.

Are we dressing six on gameday? Highly doubt it. That fringe roster player we kept is likely in street clothes on Sunday, and then we're dropping him when Bateman returns. He provides no value on Sunday. I think you could say that for just about any player, regardless of position, since there's 5 guys per week who won't dress.

Which is why I say... what's the point? The only way that makes sense is if you get to a point at cut time when you realize Bateman isn't playing by week 3. Then sure, if the guy isn't coming back in 3 weeks, put him on IR. If I think I have a chance of him being active in week 2 or week 3, I'm not putting him on IR just to keep a fringe roster player who won't play on Sunday's. Said player still has to go on waivers in week 4 or whenever we cut, and they may even have a better chance of making somebody else's team at that point.
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Injuries are the point. In this scenario, let's just say Bateman goes on IR, but he needs to be on the 53 to start the season. What are you more likely to cut - a young guy that would have to go through waivers or a veteran that doesn't have to go through waivers and is re-signed the day that Bateman goes on IR? It's the latter 10 times out of 10. Sure, that young guy you keep may not matter and may never play, but there's literally no harm. You need to fill up to 53 anyways. Why expose someone you like to some extent for no reason? Maybe you make it to week 4 and no one got hurt and then you have a tough decision to make. That's actually a blessing, but we know the reality is that someone will likely go down and then you have the roster spot to bring back Bateman without losing the young guy or the veteran. We literally did this same thing with Justin Forsett a number of years back.
 
rossihunter2 said:
they play 2 different positions and have 2 different roles - there's some crossover but duvernay's gonna be asked to do stuff on the outside and in motion that proche won't be - likewise we're probably not asking duvernay to run some of the shorter/intermediate routes in the slot that proche's gonna be asked to make

there will be a role for both - especially with bateman sidelined for a little while
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This is 100% true. I feel like given the nature of things, Proches role will be larger though. Just seems like less competition in the slot compared to the outside.
 
Simba said:
Injuries are the point. In this scenario, let's just say Bateman goes on IR, but he needs to be on the 53 to start the season. What are you more likely to cut - a young guy that would have to go through waivers or a veteran that doesn't have to go through waivers and is re-signed the day that Bateman goes on IR? It's the latter 10 times out of 10. Sure, that young guy you keep may not matter and may never play, but there's literally no harm. You need to fill up to 53 anyways. Why expose someone you like to some extent for no reason? Maybe you make it to week 4 and no one got hurt and then you have a tough decision to make. That's actually a blessing, but we know the reality is that someone will likely go down and then you have the roster spot to bring back Bateman without losing the young guy or the veteran. We literally did this same thing with Justin Forsett a number of years back.
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Right but it depends on the situation and what "young guy" we're talking about. It may not be a young guy at all. It may just mean a young Secondary player gets a roster spot over somebody like Miles Boykin, whom we could keep for 3-4 weeks and then release, or we could just release him at cuts and not worry about it.

Sure, we did it with Forsett. And there's a reason it's been five years since we've done it, and I'd also point to the fact that Forsett made it on the roster for all of like a month before we cut him again, permanently. And that may play out in whatever decisions are made between the "veteran" they're cutting and then bringing back. They may tell them "it's only a procedural thing" and then realize that can turn into a permanent thing just weeks later. That's why it's not done that frequently.
 
UPennChem said:
This is 100% true. I feel like given the nature of things, Proches role will be larger though. Just seems like less competition in the slot compared to the outside.
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i think that misunderstands how much hollywood, watkins and bateman would/will play in the slot - they'll all play there - duvernay won't play x but he will play z or some slot - but those 3 ahead of him in the depth chart will play all 3 spots depending on play design etc.

i think proche's got a chance to carve himself out a niche but duvernay's already got a ton of snaps and yes we've added 2 WRs to the room since last year but we've also lost snead and dez and boykin's not gonna be taking those snaps anymore either and add that to the fact that he hardly played down the stretch and i think he's gonna be playing a lot - i think he could see ~40% of the offensive snaps - i dont think proche's getting near that
 
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