Are you happy with our defense?

[RavensMania]

There have been talks about how great our defense is this year, maybe the best in the league. How if we had a decent offense we would win games. The latter may be true, but when you watch them play, they just aren't scary. They don't have the look of a legit top defense.

They don't have an insane pass rush. They don't have a dominating run defense. The secondary has proven to be a liability at times. As much as I hate to say it, nothing about this defense is great. The slate of quarterbacks we have played this year is honestly sad, and without a doubt makes the defense look better than it is. They are good at forcing turnovers, which half the time seems to be the only thing keeping them from being exposed. Its easy to forget all the mistakes when you intercept a pass or force a fumble at the end of a drive. But backup QBs can also be faulted for a lot of those turnovers. How good is this defense really? We don't even know.

Don't get me wrong, this defense has massive potential. And some great pieces for the near future. They've even played some games this year that make you say wow, when they are clicking on all cylinders, they are almost impossible to score against. But the pass rush really worries me at times. When guys have 4+ seconds in the pocket its not gonna end well. Its gotta be fixed. This team doesn't belong in the playoffs. But if we make it, I fear a good offense with their starting QB wipes the floor with us. Because our offense is certainly never gonna help out.

How do backup quarterbacks, at times, seem to be able to drive straight down the field? How are we giving up big runs that we just weren't allowing last year? How do we improve our pass rush? Fire Dean Pees? Limit ZDS' snaps? (Yes) Play our younger guys more?

Are you content with our defense? If not, what do you think the problems are? I'm interested to see everyone's opinion on this. I know maybe I'm being overcritical, but it honestly feels like last years defense was better. And that shouldn't be.

I know where you are going with this and I agree with alot of it. Imagine how good the secondary would be if they did have a legit pass rush and as you said, the defense would look even better with just a middle of the pack offense. Sometimes I think our corners would be better receivers than our own trio. lol. That being said, lets remember this group as a whole is very young and will continue to get better.

Go back to the Saints defense the year they won the super bowl. The defense is very similar as it allowed yardage, but made turnovers everytime you blinked an eye. This is a very opportunistic defense and we are doing it without a great pass rush.

 

[rossihunter2]

I know where you are going with this and I agree with alot of it. Imagine how good the secondary would be if they did have a legit pass rush and as you said, the defense would look even better with just a middle of the pack offense. Sometimes I think our corners would be better receivers than our own trio. lol. That being said, lets remember this group as a whole is very young and will continue to get better.

Go back to the Saints defense the year they won the super bowl. The defense is very similar as it allowed yardage, but made turnovers everytime you blinked an eye. This is a very opportunistic defense and we are doing it without a great pass rush.

i think the thing that makes this defence so good is that they are opportunistic but they also make their own luck by getting hands in the passing lanes, by forcing errant throws etc.

after last night we now lead the league in turnover differential despite having an anaemic offence doing its best to give the ball away
what's crazy is the steelers differential is 0 - which tells you all you need to know really about how good they are - in fact we have less giveaways than pittsburgh - this is how bad the AFC is this year and people vaunting the steelers as a good team seem to be overlooking the fact that they arent lol

 

[NYSE5]

i think the thing that makes this defence so good is that they are opportunistic but they also make their own luck by getting hands in the passing lanes, by forcing errant throws etc.

after last night we now lead the league in turnover differential despite having an anaemic offence doing its best to give the ball away
what's crazy is the steelers differential is 0 - which tells you all you need to know really about how good they are - in fact we have less giveaways than pittsburgh - this is how bad the AFC is this year and people vaunting the steelers as a good team seem to be overlooking the fact that they arent lol

Being a homer and "hating" the Steelers is tradition but they are a good team. Outside of Baltimore far more national sources see the Steelers as a very good team, not the Ravens.

 

[rossihunter2]

Being a homer and "hating" the Steelers is tradition but they are a good team. Outside of Baltimore far more national sources see the Steelers as a very good team, not the Ravens.

i just think the media attitude is different when the steelers play - they've had a lot of luck and while you need more than luck for 9-2 and im not saying they are a bad team but they arent 9-2 good - they've had a couple of lucky breaks to be that close to the pats in terms of record

 

[DeVito52]

ravens have a top of the league defense.
bottom of the league offense.
more cap is being spend on the offense then the defense.

ravens fan logic is to still bitch about the defense.

they are 2nd in points allowed.
1st in turnovers.
top 10 in yards allowed.
top 10 in sacks.
only 5 teams are spending less of the cap on defense!!!

they are over performing big time.

what we know is that the defense is the biggest reason we have a shot at a WC spot.

wish you where so overcritical about the offense and flacco....

The offense fucking sucks. Joe Flacco fucking sucks. I’m just speaking on behalf of what I see from the defense. Maybe they are that good because we play jokes of offenses. I just wanted to see everyone’s opinion. Playing devils advocate.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

The offense fucking sucks. Joe Flacco fucking sucks. I’m just speaking on behalf of what I see from the defense. Maybe they are that good because we play jokes of offenses. I just wanted to see everyone’s opinion. Playing devils advocate.

I mean, you can only play who is on your schedule. I think we'll know more after Pitt and Det.

 

[rossihunter2]

i just think the media attitude is different when the steelers play - they've had a lot of luck and while you need more than luck for 9-2 and im not saying they are a bad team but they arent 9-2 good - they've had a couple of lucky breaks to be that close to the pats in terms of record

and to emphasise my point i see pittsburgh's offence pretty similarly to our defence - when it's on it wrecks the game for the other team but it's inconsistent - the difference is that their defence has enough players to tighten up and our offence is anaemic

 

[DeVito52]

I mean, you can only play who is on your schedule. I think we'll know more after Pitt and Det.

Of course. I mean i didn’t mean for my post to sound so critical of the defense. Of course they’re the only reason we are competitive. The main reason for my post was that I wanted to know everyone’s opinions on the biggest holes and problems with our defense and what they think could help fix it. i.e. our pass rush

 

[29BmoreBird22]

Of course. I mean i didn’t mean for my post to sound so critical of the defense. Of course they’re the only reason we are competitive. The main reason for my post was that I wanted to know everyone’s opinions on the biggest holes and problems with our defense and what they think could help fix it. i.e. our pass rush

Our pass rush is maddening. Goes from DPoW to invisible with a penalty in one game (looking at you, Judon). And it isn't like the Texans got the ball out fast, either. Savage held the ball a lot.

 

[Oldfaithful]

Defense is fine. Draft additions from the past two years have been paying off dividends. I would love to see this defense next offseason when Tavon Young comes back and Humphrey has more time to develop. Our secondary would be a no fly zone. I also expect Weddle to have a turnaround next season. He hasn't lost a step athletically, he's just been positioned poorly. It's also why Jefferson has been struggling.

I'm not part of the fire Pees crowd, but there are two things that he does that piss me off a little.

1. The usage of the safeties. The way we use our safeties at times is a little maddening. We alternate the roles of Jefferson and Weddle far more often than anyone thinks. Effectively switching them between FS and SS. While it sounds good in theory, makes the defense unpredictable, it has two problems in my opinion.

• Weddle has never been the most athletic safety in the world. He's always been about high football IQ and positioning. This season, his positioning has been off, but hasn't been the total liability some make it out to be. He is much better served to be playing the FS role because he's the QB of the secondary. He excels in the SS role for sure, but he played just as much FS last season too(if you never realized). He excels at both. I think reducing his responsibilities a little would help out for sure.
• Jefferson doesn't have quite the range Webb did in coverage. This makes it harder for us to get away with them switching off their roles all the time. Jefferson is good in coverage(yes.. He is.. You know who you are), but his role is far better suited in the box. I do agree with certain members who say that we need to play him more in the box. We did yesterday and he played a very good game. I think he's starting to come on. Which is good. He's an identity setter on the defense.

2. It's been addressed, but at times our rotation of OLBs is a little maddening as well. Suggs is still a beast, but it would be best to reduce his snaps going forward to preserve him. Judon looks like he's reached his potential.. which is fine. He's a good linebacker. Not a star like some expected, but I see him as a good #2 OLB. But why Za'Darius Smith, who has no pass rush moves or bend, continues to get significant playing time over Williams and Bowser on pass rushing downs continues to astound me. Bowser's athletic ability is off the charts, and Williams is a damn good athlete as well with a wide plethora of pass rushing moves. Za'Darius is the definition of a straight line. he's a decent run defender, but misses sacks far too often for me to like him,


Only real weakness this defense has is ILB #2. Which brings me to the question, why aren't we rotating Bowser in there? He's damn good in coverage and athletic enough to keep up with any TE in the league. We could use someone with his skillset in that regard.


That said.. Defense is fine. I'd prefer to go get a HC who was a former DC (Vabrel or whatever his name is, or Austin are my top two choices for a head coaching position) because they know how to maximize talent, which this defense has a lot of, and scheme around deficiencies. But overall I think the defense is fine. I'm happy with how they're playing overall but would like to see a few changes

 

[Ravensnation5220]

Defense is fine. Draft additions from the past two years have been paying off dividends. I would love to see this defense next offseason when Tavon Young comes back and Humphrey has more time to develop. Our secondary would be a no fly zone. I also expect Weddle to have a turnaround next season. He hasn't lost a step athletically, he's just been positioned poorly. It's also why Jefferson has been struggling.

I'm not part of the fire Pees crowd, but there are two things that he does that piss me off a little.

1. The usage of the safeties. The way we use our safeties at times is a little maddening. We alternate the roles of Jefferson and Weddle far more often than anyone thinks. Effectively switching them between FS and SS. While it sounds good in theory, makes the defense unpredictable, it has two problems in my opinion.

• Weddle has never been the most athletic safety in the world. He's always been about high football IQ and positioning. This season, his positioning has been off, but hasn't been the total liability some make it out to be. He is much better served to be playing the FS role because he's the QB of the secondary. He excels in the SS role for sure, but he played just as much FS last season too(if you never realized). He excels at both. I think reducing his responsibilities a little would help out for sure.
• Jefferson doesn't have quite the range Webb did in coverage. This makes it harder for us to get away with them switching off their roles all the time. Jefferson is good in coverage(yes.. He is.. You know who you are), but his role is far better suited in the box. I do agree with certain members who say that we need to play him more in the box. We did yesterday and he played a very good game. I think he's starting to come on. Which is good. He's an identity setter on the defense.

2. It's been addressed, but at times our rotation of OLBs is a little maddening as well. Suggs is still a beast, but it would be best to reduce his snaps going forward to preserve him. Judon looks like he's reached his potential.. which is fine. He's a good linebacker. Not a star like some expected, but I see him as a good #2 OLB. But why Za'Darius Smith, who has no pass rush moves or bend, continues to get significant playing time over Williams and Bowser on pass rushing downs continues to astound me. Bowser's athletic ability is off the charts, and Williams is a damn good athlete as well with a wide plethora of pass rushing moves. Za'Darius is the definition of a straight line. he's a decent run defender, but misses sacks far too often for me to like him,


Only real weakness this defense has is ILB #2. Which brings me to the question, why aren't we rotating Bowser in there? He's damn good in coverage and athletic enough to keep up with any TE in the league. We could use someone with his skillset in that regard.


That said.. Defense is fine. I'd prefer to go get a HC who was a former DC (Vabrel or whatever his name is, or Austin are my top two choices for a head coaching position) because they know how to maximize talent, which this defense has a lot of, and scheme around deficiencies. But overall I think the defense is fine. I'm happy with how they're playing overall but would like to see a few changes

I totally disagree on the notion that weddle hasent lost a step because he has. The safety usage is fine in my eyes. Weddle and Jefferson just have to play better and they have. Weddle was always a great athlete, look at his combine numbers comming out of college. Hes become more football Savy and high IQ guy witb age, but the plays he's missing are just because hes a step too slow getting back. As well as poor placement but he used to be able to get back in time, hes starting to slow down and hes fighting it. At least thats my opinion

 

[Sooky]

I still feel the defense is slightly under performing when giving some of these chunk plays but I think they are over performing with these turnovers which gives the team a chance. If this team is +2 in turnover differential each game this team will beat most teams. If this team is +3 in turnover differential I actually think they have a chance to challenge the Patriots and Steelers if Koch keeps punting the way he has and the defense keeps performing the way they are.

I kind of gave up on the offense until they prove anything which won't likely happen. They are 31st or whatever in offense in the league, but I think that is skewed because of the team just running the ball out in games they are ahead. Still definitely a bad offense that needs to improve. Luckily the defense and special teams are putting them in places to succeed.

 

[Tru11]

The offense fucking sucks. Joe Flacco fucking sucks. I’m just speaking on behalf of what I see from the defense. Maybe they are that good because we play jokes of offenses. I just wanted to see everyone’s opinion. Playing devils advocate.

alright man i got cha

 

[rossihunter2]

@Lost_In_Translation 's post just reminded me but jeez ZDS is awful rushing the passer - he literally fell over on a texans play in the redzone when he was free and just had to change direction slightly - this guy doesnt move laterally, he just falls over

 

[allblackraven]

@Lost_In_Translation 's post just reminded me but jeez ZDS is awful rushing the passer - he literally fell over on a texans play in the redzone when he was free and just had to change direction slightly - this guy doesnt move laterally, he just falls over

He looked really surprised when he saw Savage still has the ball

 

[rossihunter2]

He looked really surprised when he saw Savage still has the ball

it was like he got there, decided that savage would throw the screen so he wanted to make it easier by not playing contain or going after savage, he just fell over

 

[Oldfaithful]

I totally disagree on the notion that weddle hasent lost a step because he has. The safety usage is fine in my eyes. Weddle and Jefferson just have to play better and they have. Weddle was always a great athlete, look at his combine numbers comming out of college. Hes become more football Savy and high IQ guy witb age, but the plays he's missing are just because hes a step too slow getting back. As well as poor placement but he used to be able to get back in time, hes starting to slow down and hes fighting it. At least thats my opinion

Then let me rephrase it. Weddle's game has been far more predicated around proper placement and high football IQ. Speed isn't the issue since he's still good in coverage, and it's obvious upon further examination of the tape that Weddle's miscuses have been mostly mental. His play is an issue, not his body, and he likely has another year left of good play. He's not a total liability here like other people claim. The biggest probems on the defense right now are that Webb is playing the slot corner role... And HE'S clearly lost a step and is better suited at safety at this point of his career, and we don't have good ILB #2...

I do think a change from Pees to a more creative mind could be beneficial, but this defense is the only reason we are in a potential playoff spot. It's a damn good unit.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Webb at slot corner is unnecessary and hurts us, if you want 2 safeties plus a moneybacker then Webb and Jefferson can take turns, Webb can be absolutely brilliant on db blitzes and sniffing out screens and is still a good safety, and Jefferson is best suited for box plays and also blitzes well, but Webb as a full time slot corner is just creating a liability on your defense and I don't get it, with canady and hill back, we need them to play the slot.

Peanut has had a knack for making plays but also has a knack for missing them, bowser needs to be rotated with him and really bowser needs a starters snap count, he is the kinda guy you send to do every task possible because he's a versatile athletic freak and the fact that he's getting no snaps helps explain why you feel unsure of the defense, you feel unsure because it's fucking stupidly managed.

Stop letting ZDS pass rush in such heavy doses, he can't stay on his fucking feet and never could, give those snaps to tim Williams and stop forcing him to set the edge ffs

 

[mc_red23]

It's got to be incredibly difficult to have any sort of big issues with the defense when the offense is as bad as it is. If the offense was up to scratch then maybe we could get picky with the defense but it's thanks to them, and special teams, that we have any chance at all of getting into the playoffs.

 

[TheCity5]

Think about what this defense can do if they had an offense that could finish drives? We got 6 wins off of our defense off of three shut outs. This defense is very legit but they most of all need to see the field less.

I will this this though, last year, our offense in the final five weeks of the season improved and we were able to finish drives, and score points. I think I remember some in our own media saying that the defense was just as liable as the offense in the final weeks of the season for how things turned out, now that's not true but the offense certainly got better and that was at week 13. Outside of that horrid performance against Cincinnati they looked like a middle of the pack offense. That's just what you have to hope here. It's never too late but I have zero confidence in it.