The Grit, The "C" Team and The Endless Bloody Injuries

[29BmoreBird22]

Right, but I'm sure that's also a product of defenses playing Lamar differently than they play Huntley. They're clearly rushing Huntley differently and I've not seen teams play Lamar by giving up the kind of cushion these Corners and Safeties are giving to Huntley.

Absolutely true as well. It's weird to me teams are giving Huntley the cushion they are because he hasn't shown he can consistently challenge deep, but I imagine that'll change.

 

[rossihunter2]

1. Sure, we haven't been great in short yardage. We also haven't been great in long TD drives to win games (with Huntley), which is what would be required to happen in order to win. I prefer two yards... for obvious reasons.
2. We were certainly not moving the ball at will. That's not supportable. We had some long drives early in the game, but we also had some stalled drives in the 2nd quarter and didn't do much of anything in the 3rd quarter, which is precisely how you fall behind by 14 and end up with only 17 points scored in three quarters.
3. I'm not sure why you're focused on running up the middle in short yardage on the goal line. You could run outside in short yardage situations, and you're also ignoring the fact that running the ball, in general, near the goal line, is much harder, because you've already got a condensed field, i.e. your safeties aren't 5-10 yards off the ball when the ball is at the 2 yard line.
Teams don't have to do a ton to respect the run when you have such a condensed field. Also true when we go 3-4 wide, like we did. I would have liked a better play call too, but I certainly don't see an alignment from GB that makes me think they didn't expect or respect the run ability in that spot.
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Look at the pre-snap photo. I see single man coverage outside on Bateman to the left, I see single man coverage on Andrews (off-screen to the right), and I see single man coverage on Hollywood in the slot. I see seven white jerseys within five yards of the LOS, and another Safety who's probably playing both run and pass.

What about this look gives you any indication that the Packers don't respect the Ravens ability to run here?

Have no issue criticizing the play call, because I hated it. But I don't see the Packers selling out to stop the pass here.

also as you point out we've got man coverage and our 2 best WRs singled up on the left side of the formation with no safety anywhere in that region to help at all - i just hate that fundamentally this playcall takes away 2 of our most dangerous weapons in advantageous situations the moment the ball's snapped and we sprint right

 

[rmcjacket23]

Absolutely true as well. It's weird to me teams are giving Huntley the cushion they are because he hasn't shown he can consistently challenge deep, but I imagine that'll change.

Still a short sample size of film. I imagine that would change if he gets more looks as QB1.

 

[Simba]

I’m honestly confused and this doesn’t make a ton of sense to me. If an offense is successful who cares if it’s seen as vanilla. If the defense adjust to that vanilla offense , then Lamar and Roman will need to adjust to the new defense. Isn’t that adjustment to the adjustment part of Lamar’s development? Then it just keeps on going with the never ending chess match with the D.

Maybe Lamar’s not the guy to run a complicated offense scheme? Idk maybe he is, i couldn’t care less as long as we’re successful. It’s hard to ignore how successful Huntley has been recently compared to a Lamar. It’s certainly not because he is a better Qb , so the obvious answer to me is Roman got his head out of his ass and simplified the game plan. Why not carry that over when Lamar comes back?


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@rossihunter2 hit most of it. If you're playing this vanilla offense, you're essentially playing not to lose and taking what you get instead of trying to win. That's what we saw in Lamar's rookie year. Obviously those are different circumstances with a rookie QB, but the reality is similar... you're going to hit a defense that takes all of that dink and dunk away and then you have absolutely nothing to go off of. It worked against the Packers yesterday for the most part but take that same game plan against the Patriots or Cowboys and I would bet we get annihilated.

But the reality is that the answer is kind of twofold here. Harbaugh and Roman and co. need to simplify some things for Lamar. Get him back into a rhythm and hope he takes off from there. We know he can do so much more. It's partly on Lamar as well. But you simply can't go all vanilla and hope it's gonna work. If Mark Andrews didn't take over the game himself for the most part, that's not a good offensive showing. We had no deep passing game. Most everything in the passing game was a 3-5 yard dunk and hope for the best after the catch. It's just not sustainable. Offenses need to evolve and it has under Lamar. Speaking strictly hypothetically, even if Huntley did become a long term starter, he'd have to add so much more to his repertoire. This offense would not work for the long haul.

 

[rmcjacket23]

also as you point out we've got man coverage and our 2 best WRs singled up on the left side of the formation with no safety anywhere in that region to help at all - i just hate that fundamentally this playcall takes away 2 of our most dangerous weapons in advantageous situations the moment the ball's snapped and we sprint right

Well from what I see:
1. Bateman is clearly a decoy, which I don't necessarily have a problem with. He's basically not even running a route, and even if he only has single man coverage, I don't blame them for not just throwing a jump ball there.
2. The linebacker, I believe #59, looks to be in support on Hollywood on the slot. He drifts towards the LOS at the snap and then follows Huntley down the line. I don't know what he does if Huntley doesn't roll out. My guess is he sits down in a zone or is in run support. Doesn't look like he rushes.
3. What's extremely clear is that once he rolls right, like 3 Packers instantly realize the only person over there is Andrews, and so that's the only person he's going to.

As everybody has suggested, if he simply went to another read, he would see Hollywood working through the crossing route wide open.

I would have liked to have seen Lamar run this play, because I think he wouldn't have thrown to Andrews and would have found Hollywood on the second read.

Man coverage on the goal line is sort of a "mirage" for anybody that's not out wide, i.e. you're not going to see a slot receiver like Hollywood ever in true "man" coverage on the 2 yard line. There's just too many bodies in coverage that can knock a pass down. That's why the roll out actually "worked" if he goes to his second read, because it draws players away from Hollywood to free him up.

 

[rossihunter2]

the playbook is different ...








P.d. edromeo RSR images

sure these plays are similar in terms of the QB drops... but they are otherwise completely different - not sure what you want lamar to do on that first play (and especially given that ive seen the all-22 of that play not just the broadcast footage... everyone's covered

and that is actually a really nice play by huntley but not because of the throw or the quick read - because he actually made this read basically the moment we got to the line - what was nice was that he saw the packers defence wasnt set, and knew he had andrews over the middle straight away so he got us to the line and we quick snapped and went straight away - note that andrews didnt even really run a route, he just ran straight to the void because of the defensive disarray - that's good game awareness (which is a good skill to have) but it's not really instructive or repeatable...

 

[rossihunter2]

Well from what I see:
1. Bateman is clearly a decoy, which I don't necessarily have a problem with. He's basically not even running a route, and even if he only has single man coverage, I don't blame them for not just throwing a jump ball there.
2. The linebacker, I believe #59, looks to be in support on Hollywood on the slot. He drifts towards the LOS at the snap and then follows Huntley down the line. I don't know what he does if Huntley doesn't roll out. My guess is he sits down in a zone or is in run support. Doesn't look like he rushes.
3. What's extremely clear is that once he rolls right, like 3 Packers instantly realize the only person over there is Andrews, and so that's the only person he's going to.

As everybody has suggested, if he simply went to another read, he would see Hollywood working through the crossing route wide open.

I would have liked to have seen Lamar run this play, because I think he wouldn't have thrown to Andrews and would have found Hollywood on the second read.

Man coverage on the goal line is sort of a "mirage" for anybody that's not out wide, i.e. you're not going to see a slot receiver like Hollywood ever in true "man" coverage on the 2 yard line. There's just too many bodies in coverage that can knock a pass down. That's why the roll out actually "worked" if he goes to his second read, because it draws players away from Hollywood to free him up.

my point is not about what happened in the sense that bateman wasnt even running a route there...
my point is that you've got a great opportunity with bateman and hollywood out there to run something harder to defend - you've got all sorts of options there even down to a basic rub concept especially with both those packers at the same defensive depth

 

[rossihunter2]

 

[Simba]

Since the 2 point debate is still hot, here's my hot take... we lose regardless if we score there or not. 42 seconds left on the clock and 1 timeout for Rodgers? I'd guess they would have marched right down the field and set themselves up for the FG anyways.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Since the 2 point debate is still hot, here's my hot take... we lose regardless if we score there or not. 42 seconds left on the clock and 1 timeout for Rodgers? I'd guess they would have marched right down the field and set themselves up for the FG anyways.

Agree. For me, the most likely outcome, regardless of choice, is that we don't see the ball on offense again the rest of the game. Whether that's regulation, OT, etc. The only way we see the ball again is through the flip of a coin, and I'm not convinced it gets that far.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

Still a short sample size of film. I imagine that would change if he gets more looks as QB1.

I would agree 100%.

 

[Argentina Raven]

sure these plays are similar in terms of the QB drops... but they are otherwise completely different - not sure what you want lamar to do on that first play (and especially given that ive seen the all-22 of that play not just the broadcast footage... everyone's covered

and that is actually a really nice play by huntley but not because of the throw or the quick read - because he actually made this read basically the moment we got to the line - what was nice was that he saw the packers defence wasnt set, and knew he had andrews over the middle straight away so he got us to the line and we quick snapped and went straight away - note that andrews didnt even really run a route, he just ran straight to the void because of the defensive disarray - that's good game awareness (which is a good skill to have) but it's not really instructive or repeatable...

If Huntley did it, Lamar can do it.
the only benefit I'm going to give you is that Cleveland protected better than Powers.
I compare Lamar with jordan, do you have the record-breaking jordan who lost in play off, or do you have the jordan 6 rings.
Lamar is at that fragile point of marking an era or being a one hit wonder.
if they justify everything, it will not improve

 

[rossihunter2]

If Huntley did it, Lamar can do it.
the only benefit I'm going to give you is that Cleveland protected better than Powers.
I compare Lamar with jordan, do you have the record-breaking jordan who lost in play off, or do you have the jordan 6 rings.
Lamar is at that fragile point of marking an era or being a one hit wonder.
if they justify everything, it will not improve

but what specifically is it that huntley did?

 

[RavensMania]

If Huntley did it, Lamar can do it.
the only benefit I'm going to give you is that Cleveland protected better than Powers.
I compare Lamar with jordan, do you have the record-breaking jordan who lost in play off, or do you have the jordan 6 rings.
Lamar is at that fragile point of marking an era or being a one hit wonder.
if they justify everything, it will not improve

Peyton Manning lost a lot of games in the playoffs before winning.

 

[Argentina Raven]

decide quickly who to throw and do it

 

[RavensMania]

decide quickly who to throw and do it

no question he holds the ball too long.

 

[Deebo813]

How lamar runs, he basically sees the players already in position ya know… like he can anticipate where and which angle a defender is gonna take just like all great runners.. well, he needs to learn the same with this passing skill set. Imo, i think he struggles to read defenses presnap or he just not comfortable/confident predicting a defenders movement..

 

[Militant X 1]

no question he holds the ball too long.

If Lamar could get that ball out of his hands to an open receiver as quickly as Huntley does, he would become more lethal.

 

[BoredMarine13]

because that vanilla offence was down 14 points late in the game and needed a prevent defence and some 4th and medium conversions to stay in the game - it moved the ball and it even scored a couple of TDs but vanilla means it's not challenging for the defence - and if not for mark andrews destroying darnell savage and the packers playing some weird soft coverage then

that's the reason you care about vanilla offence - obviously it's fine when it works but it's not threatening the defence really and becomes really hard to score in the redzone - luckily the packers only had 10 men on the field on 1 of our TDs and mark andrews played bully ball on 2 others

Lol any other excuses we should throw in there to discredit Roman or Huntley this week? Just give the guys their due already. If the past two weeks are any indication of what to expect from a vanilla offense, sign me up for more


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[29BmoreBird22]

Lol any other excuses we should throw in there to discredit Roman or Huntley this week? Just give the guys their due already. If the past two weeks are any indication of what to expect from a vanilla offense, sign me up for more


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Well, that's the thing- it won't be the norm. I very highly doubt any team plays a Tyler Huntley led offense as soft as the Packers did in any future games.