The 2022 Offseason Thread

[UPennChem]

Not trying to be rude but I think as this board has increased in size we are now feeling the effect of a more representative Gaussian distribution on football understanding. It's becoming quite draining honestly

 

[rossihunter2]

I agree with you. Keep in mind I listed a WR at rhe end of my draft wishlist which has gotten lost in all the responses. I'm not saying they should use top draft picks, I just threw in WR at the end because I still maintain an an additional real playmaker at that position could be the difference, especially post season

but you said we needed a #1 receiver... that requires high value capital (either big contract or high draft pick)

i dont think anyone would have an issue with a cheap vet or a day 3 pick (or even a day 2 pick if the value's great) at WR to be a complementary piece or just someone to add competition to the back end of the group - but that's not a number 1 guy (or not someone you would expect to become that guy)

but to expect us to add a major playmaker at the position with a big investment seems crazy

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Sorry but I don't see Bateman or Brown as a #1 receiver. Chiefs not only have Kelce but Hill. I don't think we have that consistent one two punch, just my opinion. I'm sure a stronger O line will make some difference, but I still think we need another playmaker to take the heat off Andrews. I think the offense was better when we had an additional receiving TE threat. In addition to Stanley, I have concerns about Boyle returning to full strength. Once again, just my ipinions

Brown isn’t a #1, but he did produce like a #1 and was a top 3 most explosive receiver in the league until our starting qb went down, so have your opinion but just know what the cold hard facts are.

Why do you not see Bateman as a WR1?

 

[Michael M.]

- but that completely misses the context of why that game ended up being close... rams were running away with it before OBJ got hurt

In a way that builds my argument-OBJ is a consistently reliable deep threat. Do you find Brown to be that?

 

[JoeyFlex5]

A deep threat clutch catcher. Maybe its how they use Brown, idk, or if that will be Bateman and/ or Brown next year...but if you see Lamar running when he shouldn't, trying to force throws or running circles in the backfield, I think we"ll have our answer.

If the problem is our qb running circles in the backfield then I got news for you about which position group needs upgrading…

 

[Michael M.]

Brown isn’t a #1, but he did produce like a #1 and was a top 3 most explosive receiver in the league until our starting qb went down, so have your opinion but just know what the cold hard facts are.

Why do you not see Bateman as a WR1?

With him its too early to tell and that's in part because of the way the Ravens used him or had to use him. Last year wasn't really something you could measure him by because of all the injuries. I thought they got him to be a big bodied deep threat. Didn't see him used enough in that role. But he does have good hands and holds onto the ball when hit.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

In a way that builds my argument-OBJ is a consistently reliable deep threat. Do you find Brown to be that?

OBJ was an early difference maker but what ultimately won the rams the game? The same thing that won the bucs the ring the year before, and is the difference in damn near every super bowl. One team kept their qb upright and the other couldn’t.

 

[Michael M.]

If the problem is our qb running circles in the backfield then I got news for you about which position group needs upgrading…

See I think at times it was both-a line problem but also poor separation. The receivers couldn't even get separation from themselves at times, but that could be attributed to play scheme

 

[Michael M.]

OBJ was an early difference maker but what ultimately won the rams the game? The same thing that won the bucs the ring the year before, and is the difference in damn near every super bowl. One team kept their qb upright and the other couldn’t.

Like I said in my original post, I hope they draft 2 lineman, at least.

 

[rossihunter2]

In a way that builds my argument-OBJ is a consistently reliable deep threat. Do you find Brown to be that?

yes - Hollywood's a better deep threat than OBJ...

 

[rmcjacket23]

Idk, didn't they have Edelman, who caught everything thrown at him?

I don't think anybody really considered Edelman a "#1 WR". He was the #1 WR on that team, but that doesn't mean he would have been on every team.

 

[rmcjacket23]

They have a lot of needs this year, and most likely they won't all be addressed

Right. And WR isn't even a need. Its a luxury. So it likely will be addressed with a late draft pick or a cheap veteran FA signing... if it's addressed at all.

A WR room of Hollywood, Bateman, Duvernay and Proche is extremely reasonable in this NFL landscape.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

With him its too early to tell and that's in part because of the way the Ravens used him or had to use him. Last year wasn't really something you could measure him by because of all the injuries. I thought they got him to be a big bodied deep threat. Didn't see him used enough in that role. But he does have good hands and holds onto the ball when hit.

He’s not a big bodied deep threat and idk where you got that idea from, rashod Bateman is a monster of a route runner with respectable length and speed but by no means is he a big bodied deep threat, which btw is the absolute most overrated thing people clamor for.

As a ravens fan it’s pretty stale that we had anquan boldin for 3 years and since then 95% of the fanbase has begged for a “big bodied” guy who makes contested catches. For one, mark andrews is that. two, most receivers who lean on contested catches don’t make it in the nfl, and three, you’re leaving out that the likes of anquan boldin and other “contested catch” receivers are also ELITE technicians in one way or another and those guys don’t grow on trees. Yeah let’s just go draft larry Fitzgerald this year and then Lamar can scramble the second the ball is snapped and heave it up every play, winning formula.

 

[rossihunter2]

See I think at times it was both-a line problem but also poor separation. The receivers couldn't even get separation from themselves at times, but that could be attributed to play scheme

i dont have the stats for 2021, but in 2020, Hollywood was the 3rd best separator in the league in terms of separation per route - only Tyreek Hill and either Davante Adams or Justin Jefferson (can't remember which) created more separation than hollywood and that was before we added Bateman to take more attention away from him

we know the receivers separated because this team despite lamar's injury was still able to move the ball in the passing game even without a downfield threat late in the year

 

[Michael M.]

yes - Hollywood's a better deep threat than OBJ..

.

He’s not a big bodied deep threat and idk where you got that idea from, rashod Bateman is a monster of a route runner with respectable length and speed but by no means is he a big bodied deep threat, which btw is the absolute most overrated thing people clamor for.

As a ravens fan it’s pretty stale that we had anquan boldin for 3 years and since then 95% of the fanbase has begged for a “big bodied” guy who makes contested catches. For one, mark andrews is that. two, most receivers who lean on contested catches don’t make it in the nfl, and three, you’re leaving out that the likes of anquan boldin and other “contested catch” receivers are also ELITE technicians in one way or another and those guys don’t grow on trees. Yeah let’s just go draft larry Fitzgerald this year and then Lamar can scramble the second the ball is snapped and heave it up every play, winning formula.

Yes I loved Boldin and the offense was never the same after they cut him over a $2 million dispute

 

[JoeyFlex5]

See I think at times it was both-a line problem but also poor separation. The receivers couldn't even get separation from themselves at times, but that could be attributed to play scheme

@rossihunter2 whats that stat that had Hollywood separating vs man coverage at a ridiculous rate?

Have we seen the mountain of film that shows Lamar reading a separating receiver but having to tuck and scramble because he doesn’t have time to throw to his FIRST read?

 

[Michael M.]

@rossihunter2 whats that stat that had Hollywood separating vs man coverage at a ridiculous rate?

Have we seen the mountain of film that shows Lamar reading a separating receiver but having to tuck and scramble because he doesn’t have time to throw to his FIRST

Right. And WR isn't even a need. Its a luxury. So it likely will be addressed with a late draft pick or a cheap veteran FA signing... if it's addressed at all.

A WR room of Hollywood, Bateman, Duvernay and Proche is extremely reasonable in this NFL landscape.

I would love to see Duvernay and Proche get more involved in the offense. A balanced use of all of them in combination with Andrews, could be the way to go.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I would love to see Duvernay and Proche get more involved in the offense. A balanced use of all of them in combination with Andrews, could be the way to go.

Well yeah, and a lot of that falls on Greg Roman, Lamar, and the OL, and adding another wr wouldn’t be a good start to trying to get our current guys the ball more lol

 

[rossihunter2]

@rossihunter2 whats that stat that had Hollywood separating vs man coverage at a ridiculous rate?

Have we seen the mountain of film that shows Lamar reading a separating receiver but having to tuck and scramble because he doesn’t have time to throw to his FIRST read?

you talking about the 3rd in the league in separation per route run?
since entering the league he's been in and around the top 5 every year in yards per route run (obviously i imagine that was massively hit by the 6 games without lamar this year)
also at least after the colts game (not sure what the stat is now), had the 3rd most TDs on vertical routes since entering the league

 

[rmcjacket23]

I would love to see Duvernay and Proche get more involved in the offense. A balanced use of all of them in combination with Andrews, could be the way to go.

Well its never going to be purely balanced, mostly because Bateman and Hollywood are obviously levels above those two as WRs.
Regardless, its still just one football. There's really no good reason to reduce target shares of Hollywood or Andrews, and Bateman will obviously do more this year anyway. Couple that with, what I would bet, will be more emphasis on running the ball more this offseason (now that we should have our actual RBs back), as well as perhaps using Dobbins more out of the backfield as a pass catcher, and there just isn't going to be the volume available to a 4th pass catcher in my eyes.

This offense struggles to maintain quality target share for three pass catchers, let alone four.