The 2022 Offseason Thread

[D1City55]

the best team the ravens have ever put on the field (in 2019) had the worst run defence in franchise history and the only time we've ever given up more than 100 yards per game on the ground and that was despite teams not getting much of a chance to run on us because we were blowing teams out and because we destroyed teams in time of possession - think we were something like 21st in the league in ypc

that defence was a top 5 defence - top 3 in points, top 4 in yards, 7th in turnovers, 2nd in first downs, 6th in air yards (and net air yards per attempt), 4th in points per drive and 5th in percentage of drives that ended with a turnover

in 2021 not a single team ran the ball more than they passed it - more than 3/4 of the league is passing it more than 55% of the time, and nearly a 1/3 of the league passed more than 60% of the time

teams dont like running the ball unless the defence is literally begging them to do it because passing is more likely to give you better outcomes - the ravens in 2019 and somewhat in 2020 were the exception that proved the rule - it took an historic running game to even make running the ball relevant in an explosive offence

however you build your defence you have to build it around the passing game - i would sacrifice lots of yards on the ground if it meant being more effective in the passing game on defence and partly that's because the passing game is where your defence is more likely to make big plays too - interceptions and sacks dont happen on running plays

Being great against the pass happens at multiple levels. You can have a great pass rush but if you have piss poor secondary then teams will be able to mitigate your pass rush, it's far more easier when you can't stop the run. Yeah, the 2019 Ravens defense had the worst run defense in franchise history but the franchise mantra has always been stopping the run, the team puts an effort to stop the run every year. In the end ultimately it was their downfall when the Titans ran them off the field when Ryan Tannehill threw for only 88 yards.

I think Brandon Staley said this perfectly when talking about the run game. You don't need it to set up play-action, but you need to be more physical than the opposing defense. If you can move guys off the LOS and physically take a toll on their bodies, then they're going to in turn have issues when they have to rush the passer.

Again, I want us to build a pass rush but at the same time, I certainly hope the team has a plan in place for potentially replacing Campbell and Williams.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Well realistically, defenses making a team one dimensional doesn't really happen anymore. There's not a defense in this league that exists that can simply stop one unit from doing something on one side of the ball. There's no defense good enough to completely halt a teams running game, and there's no defense that's anywhere close to halting a quality passing attack.

Like we've kind of already seen the flaws in these philosophies. The 2019 Ravens were it. 6-7 minute drives, bludgeoning teams over and over again with the run, hit a bunch of play action and deep shots, win a bunch of games.

While I loved that offense, some pretty glaring holes started to occur, and were amplified in the playoffs. A mistake or two that is capitalized on by your opponent suddenly puts you down double digits, and now YOU are the team that's one dimensional.

Would also point out that the 2012 Ravens were historically one of the worst run defenses in the history of the franchise.

Pretty much three things I care about from a defense in the modern NFL...
1. Make their QB uncomfortable, which more and more, means interior pass rush.
2. Force turnovers.
3. Don't suck at the rest

Anything else you do well is a bonus. You can't be bad on an entire side of the ball, but you certainly don't have to be great at it.

Okay but the thing about this post is… I literally just said this in different words

 

[cdp]

Being great against the pass happens at multiple levels. You can have a great pass rush but if you have piss poor secondary then teams will be able to mitigate your pass rush, it's far more easier when you can't stop the run. Yeah, the 2019 Ravens defense had the worst run defense in franchise history but the franchise mantra has always been stopping the run, the team puts an effort to stop the run every year. In the end ultimately it was their downfall when the Titans ran them off the field when Ryan Tannehill threw for only 88 yards.

I think Brandon Staley said this perfectly when talking about the run game. You don't need it to set up play-action, but you need to be more physical than the opposing defense. If you can move guys off the LOS and physically take a toll on their bodies, then they're going to in turn have issues when they have to rush the passer.

Again, I want us to build a pass rush but at the same time, I certainly hope the team has a plan in place for potentially replacing Campbell and Williams.

The Titans also took advantage of good field positions because if costly turnovers.
Staley's credo is to stop the pass first though. @rmcjacket23 explained it perfectly. Force errors, make qb uncomfortable and it will lead to more turnovers i.e better field position - >better chance to score points

 

[D1City55]

Its not going to happen in one year. Nobody ever thought it would. But I don't want to replace Brandon Williams with Brandon Williams. I want to replace Brandon Williams with somebody who will actually play on passing downs and not be on the sideline, like BWill has been for years. It might take two guys to do that. It might take two guys to do it, but I know I can get a pretty good run stopping lineman at really any point in the draft or even cheaply in FA. That's not a concern for me.

Focus on getting Dlineman who can get to the QB is a priority for the offseason. Its probably the second biggest priority behind upgrading the Oline. We certainly have cap and draft resources to make that happen.

And if it means we do a worse in the run game but better in pass rush, I'm 1000% for it.

I mean, if we're being honest here if Brandon Williams was supposed to be a multi-dimensional player on the DL then the Ravens were foolish to give him that contract, to begin with but that was never what they expected out of him. Prior to that contract, he's never shown the ability to rush the passer but when he missed games we clearly saw what he meant to this defense. Brandon Williams is a 2 gapping NT so you can't really expect him to be a great pass rusher. Also, sometimes their job is to take on double teams, soak up blockers and keep contain, they might not be asked to rush the passer at all.

It's hard to find guys who play that role and can get in the backfield in a hurry because they're quite honestly not the quickest guys on the DL even though they're usually the strongest. Haloti Ngata comes to mind but he was a special type of player, outside of him those types of players don't exist at that position. Vita Vea is another name that comes to mind.

I'm huge on getting a guy who can do both, I mean why wouldn't you be? At the same time if a space-eater like Jordan Davis is there in the 1st and we take him, then I would understand. He's not particularly high on my board but I would understand the pick. Granted moving back for him makes sense but if that's our draft target then again, I'm not going to fuss over it.

 

[rossihunter2]

Being great against the pass happens at multiple levels. You can have a great pass rush but if you have piss poor secondary then teams will be able to mitigate your pass rush, it's far more easier when you can't stop the run. Yeah, the 2019 Ravens defense had the worst run defense in franchise history but the franchise mantra has always been stopping the run, the team puts an effort to stop the run every year. In the end ultimately it was their downfall when the Titans ran them off the field when Ryan Tannehill threw for only 88 yards.

I think Brandon Staley said this perfectly when talking about the run game. You don't need it to set up play-action, but you need to be more physical than the opposing defense. If you can move guys off the LOS and physically take a toll on their bodies, then they're going to in turn have issues when they have to rush the passer.

Again, I want us to build a pass rush but at the same time, I certainly hope the team has a plan in place for potentially replacing Campbell and Williams.

except the titans didnt run the ravens off the field - they only really started getting going in the running game in the 2nd half
the titans won that day on the turnover battle and ravens not being able to finish drives - if you look at the box score it makes it look like derrick henry was unstoppable but he had 2 big plays - 1 of which came on a drive where they ended up punting

obviously that one 66 yd run was important to help salt the game away but idk that the titans really beat us with the run - they beat us with defence

 

[Dom McRaven]

Absolutely. He looks like the prototype ravens safety based on what we saw from winks usage, and obviously macdonalds usage of him. He’s a big time athlete, he’s elite lining up at slot corner, has the movement skills to match up slot receivers and the size to take on TEs as well, and he’s an all around pretty competent safety in general, quick to read what’s happening in front of him, breaks all over the field with great pursuit and often turns what looks like a big gain into a modest gain by just eating up ground really fast for a tackle. Makes plays in the intermediate pass game.

is not a ball hawk or a single high type, has the range for it but just doesn’t excel there, probably because he appears to be more of a reactionary kinda player.

if we landed him in round 2 I’d lose my shit with excitement, if we took him at 14 I’d be livid, if we traded back and got him in the mid-late 20s I’d be unhappy. He’s a good safety for todays nfl being a potentially elite nickel db and starting caliber safety at the same time, and he’s a great fit here, but first round I just don’t know

one of my favourite prospects so far - just not sure he's going to be in range of any of our picks - ive got a 1st round grade on him but i dont think he's going to be worthy of the 14th pick

but i think he's long gone by 45

my notes on Hill so far:

- 6’0 192lbs

- Fluid athlete – great hips, good feet, explosive and fast – awesome burst, long speed and change of direction skills

- Not particularly long

- Versatile alignments – can man cover out of the nickel, play split-safety, in the box, middle of the field, even sometimes at outside corner etc.

- Oily hips and great footwork – flexible athlete

- Bundle of energy and effort – will chase down plays from the other side of the field and get in on the play

- Great awareness in zone coverage – understands his leverage, his help and what the whole field in front and behind him look like – just consistently demonstrating real intelligence and quick processing

- Route-recognition, play-recognition – good feel – pre-snap recognition - probably good film-study – have seen him bait QBs into poor throws so that he can make plays on the ball

- Good ball skills

- Intelligence and communication pops off the screen – often communicating and signaling pre and post-snap – clearly leading that secondary to keep guys in the right place to help guys pick up and pass off receivers in the coverage

- Breaks on the ball like lightning when he decides to go – great closing speed

- You see that explosion on blitzes too

- Aggressive attacking the LoS in the running game – will take on pullers with force and good technique – will run the alley and attack screens with effectiveness

- Physical – not backing down from a contest or a block

- Can overreact to jabs in man coverage and bite – technique off the release could be better especially when lined up at the LoS – has a tendency to try and get overly-physical and can lose his rhythm – has good recovery quickness and the ability to flip his hips to mirror

- Pedal is a little choppy – think that might be partly why he sometimes ends up opening up early in man coverage and can delay his break by a fraction

- Really good staying in phase but has the speed to recover if a receiver gets a step – probably why he gets aggressive at the LoS because he trusts himself to recover

- Good wrap tackler

he is the brother of Justice Hill, he has to be

Brother @JAAM , I don't know bruh. I'll support you if this is one of YOUR #SIIE candidates, but I'm just..............not feeling it. Though we need an improvement at the safety position.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I mean, if we're being honest here if Brandon Williams was supposed to be a multi-dimensional player on the DL then the Ravens were foolish to give him that contract, to begin with but that was never what they expected out of him. Prior to that contract, he's never shown the ability to rush the passer but when he missed games we clearly saw what he meant to this defense. Brandon Williams is a 2 gapping NT so you can't really expect him to be a great pass rusher. Also, sometimes their job is to take on double teams, soak up blockers and keep contain, they might not be asked to rush the passer at all.

It's hard to find guys who play that role and can get in the backfield in a hurry because they're quite honestly not the quickest guys on the DL even though they're usually the strongest. Haloti Ngata comes to mind but he was a special type of player, outside of him those types of players don't exist at that position. Vita Vea is another name that comes to mind.

I'm huge on getting a guy who can do both, I mean why wouldn't you be? At the same time if a space-eater like Jordan Davis is there in the 1st and we take him, then I would understand. He's not particularly high on my board but I would understand the pick. Granted moving back for him makes sense but if that's our draft target then again, I'm not going to fuss over it.

1. They never envisioned Williams as a pass rusher. His contract wasn't on the level of quality interior pass rushers. People thought $10M was a lot for a run stopper, until I and everybody else pointed out that quality, interior pass rushers couldn't be had for $10M a year. They were $13-15M a year players, or more. Haloti Ngata, who was a good interior pass rusher, but not spectacular, basically signed a bigger deal than Williams, and they were many years apart and Williams signed during a much bigger cap era.
2. I agree it would be great to get somebody that does both. Typically, those players are drafted very early these days, and aren't as easy to find later in the draft. Hence why I said its more likely that they'll replenish the Dline with multiple players with multiple different skill sets. I just think in prior years they've put less emphasis on finding DLineman who can get to the QB, and more on space eaters who can fill gaps for OLBs. I think they need to change that.

I would not be happy drafting an interior lineman who doesn't get pressure on the QB in the first round, and especially as high as we're drafting. You can get some very solid edge rushers, premier Olineman, or defensive playmakers in that section of the draft almost routinely.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Brother @JAAM , I don't know bruh. I'll support you if this is one of YOUR #SIIE candidates, but I'm just..............not feeling it. Though we need an improvement at the safety position.

It’s probably the Michigan thing lol… I struggle with Michigan prospects myself. But ojabo and hill I feel really good about, I feel pretty decent about Hassan Haskins too actually

 

[JAAM]

Brother @JAAM , I don't know bruh. I'll support you if this is one of YOUR #SIIE candidates, but I'm just..............not feeling it. Though we need an improvement at the safety position.

I’d be happy with it IF we moved back into the 1st after we select at 14. I keep seeing him go in the 20’s. I’d love to jump back in and scoop him up, unless we get Sauce at 14…

 

[JAAM]

Yea I don’t give a shit anymore about having some dominant ass run defense. I’ll be okay at being average against the run, especially if it means moving on from slow, non athletic guys that can’t rush the passer

 

[Dom McRaven]

It’s probably the Michigan thing lol… I struggle with Michigan prospects myself. But ojabo and hill I feel really good about, I feel pretty decent about Hassan Haskins too actually

You feel that Ojabo would make it to us at #14?

 

[Dom McRaven]

I’d be happy with it IF we moved back into the 1st after we select at 14. I keep seeing him go in the 20’s. I’d love to jump back in and scoop him up, unless we get Sauce at 14…

I am of the mindset that Sauce goes into top 10.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

You feel that Ojabo would make it to us at #14?

I kinda do

 

[rossihunter2]

I kinda do

whether we take him if he gets there is another question entirely - he's the same as oweh in the exact opposite kind of way lol - ojabo's got some advanced pass rushes but he's raw and at times even a liability in the running game - we're gonna see how much they value run defence at 14 if he's available for sure

 

[All_black_everything]

Ojabo and Oweh would be a hell of a tandem to have chasing these QBs around. Would just need someone else on the interior to help Madubuike. I wouldn’t hate it tbh.

then draft Faalele in round 2!

 

[rossihunter2]

Ojabo and Oweh would be a hell of a tandem to have chasing these QBs around. Would just need someone else on the interior to help Madubuike. I wouldn’t hate it tbh.

then draft Faalele in round 2!

definitely a fun story with them being high school team-mates too

 

[All_black_everything]

definitely a fun story with them being high school team-mates too

Not the draft talk section but I think I’d actually prefer Travon Walker there lol either way I’m stoked for the draft this year

 

[Deebo813]

I mean, if we're being honest here if Brandon Williams was supposed to be a multi-dimensional player on the DL then the Ravens were foolish to give him that contract, to begin with but that was never what they expected out of him. Prior to that contract, he's never shown the ability to rush the passer but when he missed games we clearly saw what he meant to this defense. Brandon Williams is a 2 gapping NT so you can't really expect him to be a great pass rusher. Also, sometimes their job is to take on double teams, soak up blockers and keep contain, they might not be asked to rush the passer at all.

It's hard to find guys who play that role and can get in the backfield in a hurry because they're quite honestly not the quickest guys on the DL even though they're usually the strongest. Haloti Ngata comes to mind but he was a special type of player, outside of him those types of players don't exist at that position. Vita Vea is another name that comes to mind.

I'm huge on getting a guy who can do both, I mean why wouldn't you be? At the same time if a space-eater like Jordan Davis is there in the 1st and we take him, then I would understand. He's not particularly high on my board but I would understand the pick. Granted moving back for him makes sense but if that's our draft target then again, I'm not going to fuss over it.

People thought that brandon would magically start getting sacks after 4yrs of showing us its not possible

 

[Deebo813]

Yea I don’t give a shit anymore about having some dominant ass run defense. I’ll be okay at being average against the run, especially if it means moving on from slow, non athletic guys that can’t rush the passer

AMEN!!

 

[rossihunter2]

Not the draft talk section but I think I’d actually prefer Travon Walker there lol either way I’m stoked for the draft this year

100% - travon walker's definitely gonna be one of my pound the table guys

here are 3 of the first 4 lines in my notes on him:

• Freak – unreal mix of athleticism, power, violence, length
• Violence in his hands – has the power in his strikes to literally take OL off their feet at the point of attack and cause whiplash – rag-dolling OL over and over
• His play-strength and general violence really are a sight to behold – constantly collapsing entire offensive lines from the backside, blowing up pullers, walking back OL on the front-side while stacking to re-set the LoS in the offensive backfield before shedding