The 2022 Offseason Thread

[rossihunter2]

In general, I liked what Harbs had to say at his presser. Like legitimately. Things that stood out to me were the following:

We can say we had fluke injuries but that's basically besides the point. We have to do everything we can and leave no stone unturned to do what we think we can to protect our guys. That's a great answer.

He pointed out something that was obvious and something that drove me nuts all year. Typically our defenses are quite good and because of that we do well in the field position battle. This year we were awful in field position. The subsequent product of that was 2 or 3 first down drives that ended up in punts. He called those drives empty yards drives. Gotta be better about that. I think we've seen with the switch to MacDonald and the upcoming draft likely being defense heavy, we're gonna try and fix that issue.

Last thing is the acknowledgement that we need to improve the running game and reduce the number of sacks. On the running side we get our guys back which is good but the OL could be better and in the sacks side Lamar can be better but also the protection could be better.

At the end of the day, it was let's get healthy and try and stay healthy, play better defense, Lamar play smarter, and run the ball better. It's obvious our team knows where we need to improve. The question becomes what can EDC do with his cash and draft capital to help us improve in those areas.

agree with all of that except the running game stuff - iirc, didnt he talk about not relying so much on our schemed/called running game

and the biggest thing for me was him talking about how we were missing explosive plays (and what he referred to as easy TDs)

 

[rmcjacket23]

There was no doubt Dorsey was going to get the job, don't know why people were worried.

Well he was interviewing and supposedly a front runner for the Giants OC job, to follow Daboll out the door. Would have opened up the Bills OC position.
Smart move for him to stay though. Buffalo > Giants.

 

[rossihunter2]

Well he was interviewing and supposedly a front runner for the Giants OC job, to follow Daboll out the door. Would have opened up the Bills OC position.
Smart move for him to stay though. Buffalo > Giants.

he was never leaving the bills - with the giants he wasnt going to get to call plays, with the bills he was

 

[rmcjacket23]

In general, I liked what Harbs had to say at his presser. Like legitimately. Things that stood out to me were the following:

We can say we had fluke injuries but that's basically besides the point. We have to do everything we can and leave no stone unturned to do what we think we can to protect our guys. That's a great answer.

He pointed out something that was obvious and something that drove me nuts all year. Typically our defenses are quite good and because of that we do well in the field position battle. This year we were awful in field position. The subsequent product of that was 2 or 3 first down drives that ended up in punts. He called those drives empty yards drives. Gotta be better about that. I think we've seen with the switch to MacDonald and the upcoming draft likely being defense heavy, we're gonna try and fix that issue.

Last thing is the acknowledgement that we need to improve the running game and reduce the number of sacks. On the running side we get our guys back which is good but the OL could be better and in the sacks side Lamar can be better but also the protection could be better.

At the end of the day, it was let's get healthy and try and stay healthy, play better defense, Lamar play smarter, and run the ball better. It's obvious our team knows where we need to improve. The question becomes what can EDC do with his cash and draft capital to help us improve in those areas.

Agreed. Thought it was all fairly obvious too.
The running game was what like top 5, and it seemed like an afterthought, because it was. The running game was basically "hey Lamar or Huntley, scramble and make a play with your legs". Almost no explosive plays in the running game. I'm sure we had some, but I don't recall any like 15-20 yard runs by a RB all year. That's pathetic. Even a team that throws the ball like 60-70% of the time can find a good chunk play or two per game in the running game just based on personnel groupings and defensive schemes. We seemingly couldn't.
I fully expect that to be a major point of emphasis in the offseason. Getting healthy players back will certainly be a big part of that, but no way I see our running game looking like that again.
John and Eric might be willing to make philosophical concessions towards putting more emphasis on offense/passing game, as opposed to being a defensive-first team, but there's no way they're going to tolerate having a below average defense AND a running game that's dependent on Lamar. No way that happens.

And yes, you mentioned the poor route running. I pointed that out several times. People on twitter or social media (and even some on here) think that Roman is drawing up plays where receivers are running into each other. I'd say that's borderline impossible. When that happens, its a personnel issue, i.e. somebody did something they're not supposed to do. We think of like Bateman and Hollywood and Andrews as these total stud players who can never do anything wrong. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they were getting buried in film sessions for chunks of the season for poor route running and missed assignments.

 

[UPennChem]

Agreed. Thought it was all fairly obvious too.
The running game was what like top 5, and it seemed like an afterthought, because it was. The running game was basically "hey Lamar or Huntley, scramble and make a play with your legs". Almost no explosive plays in the running game. I'm sure we had some, but I don't recall any like 15-20 yard runs by a RB all year. That's pathetic. Even a team that throws the ball like 60-70% of the time can find a good chunk play or two per game in the running game just based on personnel groupings and defensive schemes. We seemingly couldn't.
I fully expect that to be a major point of emphasis in the offseason. Getting healthy players back will certainly be a big part of that, but no way I see our running game looking like that again.
John and Eric might be willing to make philosophical concessions towards putting more emphasis on offense/passing game, as opposed to being a defensive-first team, but there's no way they're going to tolerate having a below average defense AND a running game that's dependent on Lamar. No way that happens.

And yes, you mentioned the poor route running. I pointed that out several times. People on twitter or social media (and even some on here) think that Roman is drawing up plays where receivers are running into each other. I'd say that's borderline impossible. When that happens, its a personnel issue, i.e. somebody did something they're not supposed to do. We think of like Bateman and Hollywood and Andrews as these total stud players who can never do anything wrong. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they were getting buried in film sessions for chunks of the season for poor route running and missed assignments.

Yeah I hear you. I was one of those people freaking out about spacing issues because duh. The thing is though, people like Kurt Warner and Steve Smith who obviously know football better than me made comments about how it was Roman's fault. So idk there was some ethos I think they had that made me believe it.

But the person I believe the most is a sincere Harbaugh talking in the offenseasin. Especially after the fact the he talked about how bad our defense was. John didn't sugarcoat anything.

So if we take the spacing issue stuff off Roman, then you can basically say 2 things. Cover 0 and the sometimes bone headed roll out right play calls. We've been over the cover 0. It honestly wasn't really a problem after the Miami game and most of the time was with Huntley where the ball was coming out very quick for dink and dunks.

If Roman would just stop calling that singularly stupid play in critical situations, that would be great but otherwise he showed the ability to adapt in a way that Wink was seemingly totally unable to despite being healthier for a longer portion of the year.

 

[UPennChem]

agree with all of that except the running game stuff - iirc, didnt he talk about not relying so much on our schemed/called running game

and the biggest thing for me was him talking about how we were missing explosive plays (and what he referred to as easy TDs)

He just said that our running efficiency was just way down compared to what it had been over the last 2 years and the majority of it was from Lamar.

 

[UPennChem]

He just said that our running efficiency was just way down compared to what it had been over the last 2 years and the majority of it was from Lamar.

I shouldn't say Wink was unable to adapt completely because he did call the game against Mahomes and Herbert correctly. But just far too often he couldn't close out games. It's weird, it's like he was adaptable on theevel of week to week to but inside a game. Come fourth quarter we were always fucked if we didn't have the ball last

 

[rossihunter2]

Yeah I hear you. I was one of those people freaking out about spacing issues because duh. The thing is though, people like Kurt Warner and Steve Smith who obviously know football better than me made comments about how it was Roman's fault. So idk there was some ethos I think they had that made me believe it.

But the person I believe the most is a sincere Harbaugh talking in the offenseasin. Especially after the fact the he talked about how bad our defense was. John didn't sugarcoat anything.

So if we take the spacing issue stuff off Roman, then you can basically say 2 things. Cover 0 and the sometimes bone headed roll out right play calls. We've been over the cover 0. It honestly wasn't really a problem after the Miami game and most of the time was with Huntley where the ball was coming out very quick for dink and dunks.

If Roman would just stop calling that singularly stupid play in critical situations, that would be great but otherwise he showed the ability to adapt in a way that Wink was seemingly totally unable to despite being healthier for a longer portion of the year.

also liked that harbs was asked about the spacing issues and what went into why it was happening and he talked honestly about the philosophy of the offence and choice routes and the licence we give to andrews and hollywood (but especially andrews) to be creative and find space and that that's how lamar likes it with his receivers so they play to their strengths and their ability to have chemistry with lamar and read the field the same way and naturally that's going to create some poor spacing and some tighter windows (i like that he even name-checked KC and how they do a lot of the same things that way too with Kelce)

some of it obviously is also about poor execution - was watching some of the chiefs game and there's a play where i have no idea why watkins and duvernay are right next to each other and it seems to me that duvernay just ran the wrong route or got the wrong route depth or something (maybe he misread the coverage or something)

 

[UPennChem]

also liked that harbs was asked about the spacing issues and what went into why it was happening and he talked honestly about the philosophy of the offence and choice routes and the licence we give to andrews and hollywood (but especially andrews) to be creative and find space and that that's how lamar likes it with his receivers so they play to their strengths and their ability to have chemistry with lamar and read the field the same way and naturally that's going to create some poor spacing and some tighter windows (i like that he even name-checked KC and how they do a lot of the same things that way too with Kelce)

some of it obviously is also about poor execution - was watching some of the chiefs game and there's a play where i have no idea why watkins and duvernay are right next to each other and it seems to me that duvernay just ran the wrong route or got the wrong route depth or something (maybe he misread the coverage or something)

Yeah exactly. It's like it's great that that kind of flexibility is built in there. HOWEVER, if you are really routinely seeing horrible spacing issues and not converting big plays that's gotta be a function of the play going on too long. The question is why weren't we able to execute as intended? Obviously not every play works and not every play works against the called defense. Sometimes the defense has a player better than your player.

At the end of the day, I'd like to see Lamar have the ability to be more decisive earlier in plays by having a clean pocket.

 

[rossihunter2]

Yeah exactly. It's like it's great that that kind of flexibility is built in there. HOWEVER, if you are really routinely seeing horrible spacing issues and not converting big plays that's gotta be a function of the play going on too long. The question is why weren't we able to execute as intended? Obviously not every play works and not every play works against the called defense. Sometimes the defense has a player better than your player.

At the end of the day, I'd like to see Lamar have the ability to be more decisive earlier in plays by having a clean pocket.

idk about the play going on too long because there's rules on scramble drills that makes it easier to create natural spacing - but if guys misread the coverage or arent on the same page (or just get it wrong) then that's how you end up with spacing issues with multiple guys covered by 1 defender (which is the worst possible outcome)

 

[UPennChem]

idk about the play going on too long because there's rules on scramble drills that makes it easier to create natural spacing - but if guys misread the coverage or arent on the same page (or just get it wrong) then that's how you end up with spacing issues with multiple guys covered by 1 defender (which is the worst possible outcome)

That's totally right. I guess my point is you can only find yourself in the spacing issue sense on longer developing plays.

Now either your guys are mostly on the same page and making the right read in which case you probably most often look like KC. Or your guys are not on the same page or making the wrong read in which case you get collisions and interceptions.

My only point is when those longer developing plays happen, we need to be better at that, but also, we should be trying to be efficient without having to rely on those.

So often there's just nothing available and there's pressure immediately and then Lamar has to run for his life and try and make magic happen.

 

[rossihunter2]

That's totally right. I guess my point is you can only find yourself in the spacing issue sense on longer developing plays.

Now either your guys are mostly on the same page and making the right read in which case you probably most often look like KC. Or your guys are not on the same page or making the wrong read in which case you get collisions and interceptions.

My only point is when those longer developing plays happen, we need to be better at that, but also, we should be trying to be efficient without having to rely on those.

So often there's just nothing available and there's pressure immediately and then Lamar has to run for his life and try and make magic happen.

idk that that's true tbh - we had tons of spacing issues against the dolphins despite those plays being over straight away
probably just the worst called game of roman's ravens career - but i have to imagine that guys were just getting it wrong because we'd have 2 guys lined up next to each other running the exact same route - not even an idiot schemes the play that way so i have to imagine one of the receivers has got the playcall wrong or runs the wrong route because there's no way roman's still employed if that's the case

just looking at the dolphins game - i just have to imagine that guys were getting stuff wrong because otherwise im not sure how roman made it to week 12 let alone to 2022 - i have noticed that watkins is often involved in the spacing issues in 2021 and i wonder if maybe he's just not quite on the same wavelength as the rest of the offence and i do have to wonder if that's why his snaps disappeared towards the end of the year even though he was supposedly healthy

 

[UPennChem]

idk that that's true tbh - we had tons of spacing issues against the dolphins despite those plays being over straight away
probably just the worst called game of roman's ravens career - but i have to imagine that guys were just getting it wrong because we'd have 2 guys lined up next to each other running the exact same route - not even an idiot schemes the play that way so i have to imagine one of the receivers has got the playcall wrong or runs the wrong route because there's no way roman's still employed if that's the case

just looking at the dolphins game - i just have to imagine that guys were getting stuff wrong because otherwise im not sure how roman made it to week 12 let alone to 2022 - i have noticed that watkins is often involved in the spacing issues in 2021 and i wonder if maybe he's just not quite on the same wavelength as the rest of the offence and i do have to wonder if that's why his snaps disappeared towards the end of the year even though he was supposedly healthy

That's really interesting. Thanks for that!

 

[Adreme]

Having had time to think about it, and from my debate about Roman the other day, I think I now agree with getting rid of Wink but for a different reason than most: for the first time in forever free agent players are doing better elsewhere.

It used to be an almost annual tradition where free agent Raven defenders would get a big deal and fail to perform: Kruger, Reed, McPhee just to name a few. However, lately the opposite has been true. ZDS, Judson, and Yannick have all been better away from the Ravens then with them. If your players are having more success elsewhere and that coach isn’t Reid or BB, that is a massive indictment of you as a coach.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Having had time to think about it, and from my debate about Roman the other day, I think I now agree with getting rid of Wink but for a different reason than most: for the first time in forever free agent players are doing better elsewhere.

It used to be an almost annual tradition where free agent Raven defenders would get a big deal and fail to perform: Kruger, Reed, McPhee just to name a few. However, lately the opposite has been true. ZDS, Judson, and Yannick have all been better away from the Ravens then with them. If your players are having more success elsewhere and that coach isn’t Reid or BB, that is a massive indictment of you as a coach.

Well its also a massive indictment of the FO to not be able to evaluate those things and retain players who they think still have room to grow.

Its not as simple as I'm about to make it out to be, but like it used to be that we'd have to choose between Yanda or Grubbs. Like we'd have two good players at many positions groups and understand you can't pay both simultaneously, and make a choice. I can live with that all day long.

It's tough to swallow when you're letting Judon walk and you really have nothing clue to his level to replace him with. Basically it seems we chose Bowser over him, but they weren't really that comparable to me.

 

[Deebo813]

Crazy how people are finally surprised that racism goes on in the nfl lol..

 

[Davesta]

There was no doubt Dorsey was going to get the job, don't know why people were worried.

it came the same day as Harbs presser and confirmation that GRo is staying. So people wanted to compound the cries

 

[Adreme]

Well its also a massive indictment of the FO to not be able to evaluate those things and retain players who they think still have room to grow.

Its not as simple as I'm about to make it out to be, but like it used to be that we'd have to choose between Yanda or Grubbs. Like we'd have two good players at many positions groups and understand you can't pay both simultaneously, and make a choice. I can live with that all day long.

It's tough to swallow when you're letting Judon walk and you really have nothing clue to his level to replace him with. Basically it seems we chose Bowser over him, but they weren't really that comparable to me.

Sometimes it was not even about room to grow. Yannick was good before he got to Baltimore, bad while here, and good when gone. Judon was good while here, and instantly reached all pro status when leaving. That is more than improvement to me. That is "these players are clearly not being used to their full potential".

 

[JO_75]

 

[JAAM]

I hope we make up for last time and sign him lol