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The Offensive Line Thread

btw, Perriman is looking like an absolute bust. His lack of route running, awareness and inability to hold on to the football in 50/50's is getting really, really annoying.
 
I beg you Ozzie to go sign John Greco from the Browns... TBH guys I think everyone is overrating the yanda injury. Now before you scream at me tell me, would you rather have lost Stanley, Flacco or Maclin? Look yanda is great but if we got Greco I think we would be okay. We have allowed 3 sacks this season, and one tiday was Terrance West's fault. The bengals o does suck but they easily have a top 3 d line. Jensen, Howard, and hurst have been well above expected. Next man up.
 
I've been saying all year that injuries could catch up to Yanda and we needed insurance, that was before we lost half our interior. Shattered ankle at 33, he won't be the same if he comes back and I wouldnt be mad if he retires. He deserves a rest from carrying the players around him for so long.
 
Lost_In_Translation said:
And idiotic gamble is not addressing the damn problem and relying on our players that we'rent promising to begin with.. Lewis wasn't good last year(even though members will tell you this. At best he was a decent pass blocker and a horrendous run blocker), and Ducasse was worse. LG was a clear need. Then, we picked Williams over Wagner(which was stupid as Wagner has played well in Detriot. I don't give a damn if he's not a scheme fit, he was a good Rt. He would've been fine), did nothing in the draft other than draft a massive project(I won't blame Ozzie for Sirgausa, but that's the only thing we did which is again, stupid). Did not make acquisition AFTER Lewis and Siragusa went down, and now we've got 1 great olinemen in Stanley, three question marks in Jensen, Bergstrom and Howard, a below average guy in Hurst who should honestly be a backup swing tackle.
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Lol....OK, right. We were going to pay Wagner $50 mil., 5 years? "Stupid"? LMAO! puleeezze
 
Tank said:
Lol....OK, right. We were going to pay Wagner $50 mil., 5 years? "Stupid"? LMAO! puleeezze
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Hmmm.. Yeah I'd pay him that much. Given the increasing importance of having a good RT in today's NFL given the emergence of JJ Watt, Von Miller, Mack, who all line up on the right side.. Yeah. Not a bad deal. He's clearly an above average RT. Not to mention it's clearly a passing league and he's great at that, and Wagner has done well as a run blocker so far in Detriot per PFF. Sure, the Lions saw that as an overpay but given that he's an above average player at the position, and that right tackles have become far more important than they were in the past, and the fact that he's in his physical prime? Then yes. I would have paid him. RTs that can keep the QB upright are not a cheap commodity.

Williams on the other hand is still heavily rotated out on passing downs and sure he's made some strides, but he's not very good in that facet.

I'll the RT who doesn't have to rotate out of the game on third down over the one dimensional NT. Every day of the week. Wagner was a top ten RT in the NFL during his tenure here. I get why got he got paid that much. Stop underrating the RT position.
 
Lost_In_Translation said:
Hmmm.. Yeah I'd pay him that much. Given the increasing importance of having a good RT in today's NFL given the emergence of JJ Watt, Von Miller, Mack, who all line up on the right side.. Yeah. Not a bad deal. He's clearly an above average RT. Not to mention it's clearly a passing league and he's great at that, and Wagner has done well as a run blocker so far in Detriot per PFF. Sure, the Lions saw that as an overpay but given that he's an above average player at the position, and that right tackles have become far more important than they were in the past, and the fact that he's in his physical prime? Then yes. I would have paid him. RTs that can keep the QB upright are not a cheap commodity.

Williams on the other hand is still heavily rotated out on passing downs and sure he's made some strides, but he's not very good in that facet.

I'll the RT who doesn't have to rotate out of the game on third down over the one dimensional NT. Every day of the week. Wagner was a top ten RT in the NFL during his tenure here. I get why got he got paid that much. Stop underrating the RT position.
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I said let them both walk, but if we we're going to pay 1 I'd rock with Williams, especially the way the deal was structured. Look at the the division and how the current defense is built. He's a main reason the pass rush will be as effective down the line because of the 3rd and longs he'll force. Of the two, he was worth it and I said give KO whatever he wants. Patience. I brought this up before and would like to ask again... What were peoples expectations in the off season?
 
redrum52 said:
What were peoples expectations in the off season?
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THAT WE FIXED THE DAMN OLINE. It's been a massive problem for 3 of the past four years. The defense was fine, even if you let Williams walk. We'd still be great. Otherwise the offseason was fine. I liked our draft, I liked some of acquisitions, and I thought 3 of our first four picks are gonna be great. Problem is, we ignored our biggest need. Which is stupid/bullshit.

We're not too far away from contending. We'd be a contending team right now if we had a good offensive line. We don't. Roman's scheme is working, but the line has still struggled. And now we just lost our best player and it's only going to get worse. We're gonna be able to run the ball as effectively. Which will force us to be pass heavy. Which will lead to more opportunities for Flacco to get killed. And then the cycle repeats itself, and we lose more games than we should.
 
Lost_In_Translation said:
Hmmm.. Yeah I'd pay him that much. Given the increasing importance of having a good RT in today's NFL given the emergence of JJ Watt, Von Miller, Mack, who all line up on the right side.. Yeah. Not a bad deal. He's clearly an above average RT. Not to mention it's clearly a passing league and he's great at that, and Wagner has done well as a run blocker so far in Detriot per PFF. Sure, the Lions saw that as an overpay but given that he's an above average player at the position, and that right tackles have become far more important than they were in the past, and the fact that he's in his physical prime? Then yes. I would have paid him. RTs that can keep the QB upright are not a cheap commodity.

Williams on the other hand is still heavily rotated out on passing downs and sure he's made some strides, but he's not very good in that facet.

I'll the RT who doesn't have to rotate out of the game on third down over the one dimensional NT. Every day of the week. Wagner was a top ten RT in the NFL during his tenure here. I get why got he got paid that much. Stop underrating the RT position.
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Spot on
 
Lost_In_Translation said:
THAT WE FIXED THE DAMN OLINE. It's been a massive problem for 3 of the past four years. The defense was fine, even if you let Williams walk. We'd still be great. Otherwise the offseason was fine. I liked our draft, I liked some of acquisitions, and I thought 3 of our first four picks are gonna be great. Problem is, we ignored our biggest need. Which is stupid/bullshit.

We're not too far away from contending. We'd be a contending team right now if we had a good offensive line. We don't. Roman's scheme is working, but the line has still struggled. And now we just lost our best player and it's only going to get worse. We're gonna be able to run the ball as effectively. Which will force us to be pass heavy. Which will lead to more opportunities for Flacco to get killed. And then the cycle repeats itself, and we lose more games than we should.
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Should have been more specific... After the FA and the draft expectations. I really saw a 8-8, maybe 9 win season. The run game is more about a sticking too it combined with a better scheme. Joe will be fine, but I am concerned about Hurst being closer to him on the OL(sarcasm)... And if you ask me, CB was our biggest concern at that time. Ozzie can't control Lewis, Nico and now Yanda getting hurt. No team plans 3 men deep at a position and that's with us still drafting Elumen... you know who I'm talking about.

I also don't think Rick would fit for our style of run game either.
 
I agree that we shouldn't undervalue the right tackle position in today's NFL, but that is true of a true NT tackle in a 3-4 that keeps the linemen off the linebackers and let's a 3-4 work. Brandon Williams is one of the best in the game and rotating him and keeping him fresh is important for the entire defense.

Our strength is our defensive line, but as fans, we certainly didn't know this after moving both Guy and trading Jensen. No one knew who was playing what position and there were many posts that went back and forth discussing this. Losing all three starters from the 2016 season along the line would have been a mistake.

Paying 50m for a right tackle imo, isn't the right thing to do, but paying BWill to keep the entire defense running like a well oiled machine was the right thing to do.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have found a replacement for Wagner, but 50m is too much. Let's hope Howard works out, because he had a good game today.
 
redrum52 said:
Should have been more specific... After the FA and the draft expectations. I really saw a 8-8, maybe 9 win season. The run game is more about a sticking too it combined with a better scheme. Joe will be fine, but I am concerned about Hurst being closer to him on the OL(sarcasm)... And if you ask me, CB was our biggest concern at that time. Ozzie can't control Lewis, Nico and now Yanda getting hurt. No team plans 3 men deep at a position and that's with us still drafting Elumen... you know who I'm talking about.

I also don't think Rick would fit for our style of run game either.
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Even then we shouldn't have been relying on Lewis at G. I still have my doubts and will be beyond infuriated if we don't address LG next offseason because of Lewis. I agree, he can't control that, but we still should have been looking for upgrades earlier in the offseason and/or have retained Wagner.
 
Cville-Raven said:
So he could just be IR'd and return?
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Hard to say without knowing the severity, but with Yanda, it wouldn't surprise me at all. He walked around under his own power and shrugged off trainer help. The dude is as tough as nails and if there's a chance he can return, I'm sure he'll want to.
 
RavensMania said:
I agree that we shouldn't undervalue the right tackle position in today's NFL, but that is true of a true NT tackle in a 3-4 that keeps the linemen off the linebackers and let's a 3-4 work. Brandon Williams is one of the best in the game and rotating him and keeping him fresh is important for the entire defense.

Our strength is our defensive line, but as fans, we certainly didn't know this after moving both Guy and trading Jensen. No one knew who was playing what position and there were many posts that went back and forth discussing this. Losing all three starters from the 2016 season along the line would have been a mistake.

Paying 50m for a right tackle imo, isn't the right thing to do, but paying BWill to keep the entire defense running like a well oiled machine was the right thing to do.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have found a replacement for Wagner, but 50m is too much. Let's hope Howard works out, because he had a good game today.
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It'd be one thing if we didn't have Micheal Pierce here. If we had picked Wagner, we likely wouldn't have traded Jernigan(which is good. We got robbed). And have gambled on our young talent. Which isn't a terrible gamble as several of the players we got either flashed(Pierce, who btw has looked great at NT... Welp) or were higher draft picks. Not to mention, we have Urban who has looked like a good dirty work guy in the past. We had depth. It'd be far more logical to take a gamble at a position where we have several draft picks invested rather than a position with a bunch of scrubs. That's before the benefit of hindsight. With the benefit of hindsight it looks like Pierce filling in at NT would have been more than okay(still really effective as a player), and it looks like the depth would still be an effective unit without Williams.
 
So, I know a lot of people wanted Wagner back, but at the time he was "expendable." But truly, at what point do you expect to lose two starters, your primary interior backup, and a backup interior lineman? I know a lot of people are talking about how the offensive line should have been a priority and should have been fixed, but there is zero way to anticipate losing four players along your offensive line. That is not something you plan for.
 
29BmoreBird22 said:
Hard to say without knowing the severity, but with Yanda, it wouldn't surprise me at all. He walked around under his own power and shrugged off trainer help. The dude is as tough as nails and if there's a chance he can return, I'm sure he'll want to.
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That's kinda how I feel. He has the respect that if he wants to and is physically able to, he'll play. He's the type of guy who'd take the pain.
 
29BmoreBird22 said:
So, I know a lot of people wanted Wagner back, but at the time he was "expendable." But truly, at what point do you expect to lose two starters, your primary interior backup, and a backup interior lineman? I know a lot of people are talking about how the offensive line should have been a priority and should have been fixed, but there is zero way to anticipate losing four players along your offensive line. That is not something you plan for.
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Although this is true, going with Alex Lewis at LG was/is a terrible idea I hope we don't go with in the future, and not trying to find a replacement for Wagner until later was moronic. I've been saying it for awhile, and while I've been chastised for it, LG has been a big need since KO left. Lewis didn't play that well overall. We needed more. Sure, we got Howard who looks like he's going to be okay, but still. We should have committed to the rest of the line. We got desperate, hence trading late round picks for depth.

You're right. Ozzie is incapable of predicting the future. If he could, he wouldn't have a job in the nfl, but would play the stock market every day. But that doesn't excuse the fact that he neglected the offensive line this offseason. A mistake that might ruin our season utterly, and is something we should have addressed as a top priority. In fact, I think it will kill our season. We have to play some great pass rushers this year, interior ones included, and Flacco is going to take a beating. It will be our down fall since it seems to currently be our only weakness. Yanda was great in pass pro. Always took on the best interior lineman. Which was huge. Even with the dink and dunk stuff. I expect our pass protection be a massive liability and for Flacco to get hurt more.

At this point. A Flacco injury would be somewhat unexpected.
 
Cville-Raven said:
Was that his call? I just figured the coaches put him there to overload the strength of the left side of the line.
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That was his call. Yanda would have had to go on IR if he stayed on the right side because of his shoulder injury. So he decided to play on the left side of the line. Yanda's a tough SOB.
 
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