Lamar Jackson

[ravenslord]

I'll chime in and say I think most coaches and players are going to come back. This was not the season anyone thought it was going to be and that has to leave a bad taste in the mouth for them. If money and opportunity allow us to keep just about everyone, I think they do; furthermore, I'd argue that most of them want another go at what I feel like is a Mulligan of a season.

Let’s face it, if we were healthy with Stanley , Peters , Dobbins , etc we would probably be the top seed in the AFC playoff hunt right now .

 

[D1City55]

definitely a schematic and philosophical overhaul required in the passing game

we just didnt have answers schematically (and execution-wise) to take advantage of opportunities defenders were giving us which shouldnt be the case with the skill position group we've got (and it's going to be even better with JK and Gus back next year too)

ironically, despite it being the biggest issue right now, the OL is the easiest part of this offence to fix - just need better and healthier players... the tricky part of this offseason is going to be how do we fix this passing game so that we have answers to cover-0 and things like (and not just answers but how do we overcome it and destroy it so that teams stop wanting to use it)

i think there's going to have to be a significant amount of self-evaluation going on - and that's the coaching staff first - and Harbs needs to look honestly at this offence and make a decision about whether he thinks Roman can fix these things because we know lamar isnt going anywhere so we know that part of this offseason is going to be about helping lamar overcome these things and we've got no evidence right now that roman can do that for him

IMO, more than anything, they need 5 guys on the OL who can flat out hold their blocks against four and five man fronts. The Ravens earlier in the season relied on extra blockers with Ricard and a TE to block the blitz, it worked against Denver who blitzed us at a rate of 56% but Cincinnati was the first team to adjust to this and had 6 DBs back and pretty much bet on them covering longer then we could find a guy open. They came in with a variety of looks and once Mekari went down the OL seemed to follow suit. If they can have 5 guys who can block without the need of having too many extra blockers it will make a world of a difference.

As far as Cover 0 goes, that Dolphins game Miami decided to play the sticks and make it hard for us to throw short crossing patterns with a LB and CB crashing down on those slant routes. Watkins decided to have a nightmare game by pulling up on a TD pass against the blitz(Good throw given the pressure) and then fumbling on a slant that was returned for a TD. I liked some of the screens we saw given how hard Miami was playing against the sticks, some of it worked and better blocking on one play and better vision by Duvernay and he could've had a huge play. Against Pittsburgh, I thought we had some success against the cover 0 looks we saw. Pittsburgh threw a bunch of delayed blitzes that we had trouble with and I think on some other plays the OL didn't do a good job with zone blitz packages we saw. Outside of the Miami game, I don't think the cover 0 looks were that big of a problem.

I agree that Roman needs to be more creative, that's #2 on the list IMO but they brought in a passing game coordinator this season, I wonder how much of the onus for the passing game falls on him compared to Roman. Roman calls the plays but it's not only him we have to single out here. I think for as long as we've all been watching the team it's just lacked creativity in the passing game, you made a good point about Harbaugh needing to do self-reflection, I couldn't agree more.

 

[rossihunter2]

IMO, more than anything, they need 5 guys on the OL who can flat out hold their blocks against four and five man fronts. The Ravens earlier in the season relied on extra blockers with Ricard and a TE to block the blitz, it worked against Denver who blitzed us at a rate of 56% but Cincinnati was the first team to adjust to this and had 6 DBs back and pretty much bet on them covering longer then we could find a guy open. They came in with a variety of looks and once Mekari went down the OL seemed to follow suit. If they can have 5 guys who can block without the need of having too many extra blockers it will make a world of a difference.

As far as Cover 0 goes, that Dolphins game Miami decided to play the sticks and make it hard for us to throw short crossing patterns with a LB and CB crashing down on those slant routes. Watkins decided to have a nightmare game by pulling up on a TD pass against the blitz(Good throw given the pressure) and then fumbling on a slant that was returned for a TD. I liked some of the screens we saw given how hard Miami was playing against the sticks, some of it worked and better blocking on one play and better vision by Duvernay and he could've had a huge play. Against Pittsburgh, I thought we had some success against the cover 0 looks we saw. Pittsburgh threw a bunch of delayed blitzes that we had trouble with and I think on some other plays the OL didn't do a good job with zone blitz packages we saw. Outside of the Miami game, I don't think the cover 0 looks were that big of a problem.

I agree that Roman needs to be more creative, that's #2 on the list IMO but they brought in a passing game coordinator this season, I wonder how much of the onus for the passing game falls on him compared to Roman. Roman calls the plays but it's not only him we have to single out here. I think for as long as we've all been watching the team it's just lacked creativity in the passing game, you made a good point about Harbaugh needing to do self-reflection, I couldn't agree more.

quick note - we dont have a passing game coordinator we have a pass game specialist

david culley was our passing game coordinator and he's now the HC in Houston
Keith "Dubb" Williams is a pass game specialist - he's not the coordinator, he's basically a route-running specialist coach who works with the WRs, TEs, RBs on their route running and has at times even worked with the DBs too

Greg Roman is the only offensive coach who's a coordinator (or has coordinator in their title)

that first play against Miami to watkins is a great example of a play we need to make or have the ability to make more consistently because these are the kinds of looks we're going to keep seeing until we prove that they're not effective anymore

and obviously better OL personnel will help but not many teams have 5 good starters across their OL - but what's notable about the best OL groups in the league is that they have at least 2 (and in some cases 3) top level talented OL

 

[Dom McRaven]

no idea tbh i keep flip-flopping either way - so much of it will depend on factors we have no access to like lamar's feelings about the offence and roman because Lamar doesn't air grievances in public at all (doesnt air anything lol)

but if i have to... im gonna say 70% probability he stays

Nooooo!! I was hoping it would be a 70% the other way lol!

I think the loss of Gus and Dobbins helped his job security to an extent. With them, our running isn't good. It's not even great. It's ELITE....damn near immortal.

 

[JAAM]

I think the loss of Gus and Dobbins helped his job security to an extent. With them, our running isn't good. It's not even great. It's ELITE....damn near immortal.

Wait are we #SIIE’ing a new OC? Or what are your thought on the situation, brother?

 

[Dom McRaven]

Wait are we #SIIE’ing a new OC? Or what are your thought on the situation, brother?

Not there yet. Next season we will have these receivers with a year under their belt PLUS the return of our RBs. Barring another cursed ass season, this offense has the potential to be even better than 2019.

 

[JAAM]

Not there yet. Next season we will have these receivers with a year under their belt PLUS the return of our RBs. Barring another cursed ass season, this offense has the potential to be even better than 2019.

Yea but I never saw any improvement in Roman’s schemes even after being called out by Warner and Steve Smith. His concepts scare the shit out of me

 

[OURavensFan]

Funny how Lamar was in the MVP conversation early in the year then faded . He faded because of massive injuries to the team. It's as simple as that.
Put Mahomes,Rodgers,etc behind our line as they would have gotten destroyed.

Or Burrow when he realized he can’t throw jump balls to Higgins or Chase

 

[RavensMania]

The off season begins with coaching decisions to be made, Lamar's extension, Bozeman decision and the status of injured players coming back healthy, especially the status of Stanley. A very dramatic off season to say the least.

I have my doubts we will extend Bozeman due to the recent information from Zrebiec that they are far apart and he's asking top 5 money.

 

[ndub]

I have my doubts we will extend Bozeman due to the recent information from Zrebiec that they are far apart and he's asking top 5 money.

Hell no he doesn't deserve top 5 money lol

 

[Nurps]

I never saw he was asking top 5 money although I did read that they werent very close on an agreed number.

 

[purplepittabread88]

sure - only thing i think might play into this (at least with Roman) is that it seemed like 2020 might have been the mulligan when we look at the passing game and how it didnt really develop from 2019 and we blamed that on OL injuries and then trotted out something even less effective with even more injuries in 2021

at what point do we stop blaming injuries and covid on the lack of schematic development in the passing game

Yea. At the end of the day all I think is that we have had Lamar Jackson for 4 years and have ONE playoff win. That’s not acceptable no matter what injuries or mulligans, 4 years is a big enough sample size to show that something in the bigger picture is wrong

 

[purplepittabread88]

I think the loss of Gus and Dobbins helped his job security to an extent. With them, our running isn't good. It's not even great. It's ELITE....damn near immortal.

Exactly, to Roman losing two pro bowl rbs is like any other offense losing there top 3 wrs.

 

[purplepittabread88]

IMO, more than anything, they need 5 guys on the OL who can flat out hold their blocks against four and five man fronts. The Ravens earlier in the season relied on extra blockers with Ricard and a TE to block the blitz, it worked against Denver who blitzed us at a rate of 56% but Cincinnati was the first team to adjust to this and had 6 DBs back and pretty much bet on them covering longer then we could find a guy open. They came in with a variety of looks and once Mekari went down the OL seemed to follow suit. If they can have 5 guys who can block without the need of having too many extra blockers it will make a world of a difference.

As far as Cover 0 goes, that Dolphins game Miami decided to play the sticks and make it hard for us to throw short crossing patterns with a LB and CB crashing down on those slant routes. Watkins decided to have a nightmare game by pulling up on a TD pass against the blitz(Good throw given the pressure) and then fumbling on a slant that was returned for a TD. I liked some of the screens we saw given how hard Miami was playing against the sticks, some of it worked and better blocking on one play and better vision by Duvernay and he could've had a huge play. Against Pittsburgh, I thought we had some success against the cover 0 looks we saw. Pittsburgh threw a bunch of delayed blitzes that we had trouble with and I think on some other plays the OL didn't do a good job with zone blitz packages we saw. Outside of the Miami game, I don't think the cover 0 looks were that big of a problem.

I agree that Roman needs to be more creative, that's #2 on the list IMO but they brought in a passing game coordinator this season, I wonder how much of the onus for the passing game falls on him compared to Roman. Roman calls the plays but it's not only him we have to single out here. I think for as long as we've all been watching the team it's just lacked creativity in the passing game, you made a good point about Harbaugh needing to do self-reflection, I couldn't agree more.

I really don’t think scheme against cover 0 is a problem, I think Lamar not being able to take check forms or quick passes was a problem. Obviously that’s hopefully fixable but with praises criticisms are fair too.

 

[ndub]

I really don’t think scheme against cover 0 is a problem, I think Lamar not being able to take check forms or quick passes was a problem. Obviously that’s hopefully fixable but with praises criticisms are fair too.

I think it’s very feasible that Lamar does play hero ball at times when he feels it’s needed (against superior teams/when his team is injured a lot/when things don’t go the way they should/high stakes playoffs/etc) and thus he was constantly looking for the big play due to this.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Yea. At the end of the day all I think is that we have had Lamar Jackson for 4 years and have ONE playoff win. That’s not acceptable no matter what injuries or mulligans, 4 years is a big enough sample size to show that something in the bigger picture is wrong

Well I'd really consider it three years. He was barely even a QB his "rookie" year.
I'm not really losing too much sleep over it. 1-2 in two years in the playoffs isn't that terrible in the grand scheme of things. I consider the loss to Tennessee two years ago to be a major disappointment (as the #1 seed), but last year I wasn't surprised by it at all.
As for this year, just shows you that having a good or even great QB isn't enough.
I go and look at his peer group:
Josh Allen has 2 playoff wins in his first three full seasons
Deshaun Watson has 1 playoff win his first three full seasons
Dak Prescott has 1 playoff win in his first four full seasons
Kyler Murray has 0 playoff wins in his first two full seasons

I'd even point you to Peyton Manning, who didn't win a playoff game until his 6th season.

Guys like Mahomes and Brady who win a bunch very early are largely outliers in history.

 

[RavensMania]

Yea. At the end of the day all I think is that we have had Lamar Jackson for 4 years and have ONE playoff win. That’s not acceptable no matter what injuries or mulligans, 4 years is a big enough sample size to show that something in the bigger picture is wrong

yes, but those losses shouldn't be pinned on Lamar outside of maybe 2018 and tbh, he's the reason we have even been in the playoffs and in contention this season.

 

[RavensMania]

Well I'd really consider it three years. He was barely even a QB his "rookie" year.
I'm not really losing too much sleep over it. 1-2 in two years in the playoffs isn't that terrible in the grand scheme of things. I consider the loss to Tennessee two years ago to be a major disappointment (as the #1 seed), but last year I wasn't surprised by it at all.
As for this year, just shows you that having a good or even great QB isn't enough.
I go and look at his peer group:
Josh Allen has 2 playoff wins in his first three full seasons
Deshaun Watson has 1 playoff win his first three full seasons
Dak Prescott has 1 playoff win in his first four full seasons
Kyler Murray has 0 playoff wins in his first two full seasons

I'd even point you to Peyton Manning, who didn't win a playoff game until his 6th season.

Guys like Mahomes and Brady who win a bunch very early are largely outliers in history.

This post needs to be bookmarked. I've used the Peyton Manning scenario on multiple occasions with friends and relatives,but the rest of the examples just show how rare it is.

 

[rossihunter2]

I really don’t think scheme against cover 0 is a problem, I think Lamar not being able to take check forms or quick passes was a problem. Obviously that’s hopefully fixable but with praises criticisms are fair too.

not sure that's entirely true though - i think there's that perception because our passing game has shrunk in recent weeks - but not much of that is against cover-0 type looks

taking checkdowns and quick passes is only a solution to cover-0 in that it stops teams from being able to play cover-0 and blitz like hell against you because you're ahead of the sticks

but on 3rd down our answer to those blitzes just werent there

for sure you can criticise lamar for not checking down enough and for holding onto the ball too long - but those things are unrelated to cover-0

 

[ndub]

not sure that's entirely true though - i think there's that perception because our passing game has shrunk in recent weeks - but not much of that is against cover-0 type looks

taking checkdowns and quick passes is only a solution to cover-0 in that it stops teams from being able to play cover-0 and blitz like hell against you because you're ahead of the sticks

but on 3rd down our answer to those blitzes just werent there

for sure you can criticise lamar for not checking down enough and for holding onto the ball too long - but those things are unrelated to cover-0

Actually my man, checking down/throwing a quick pass and not holding on to the ball too long is precisely two of the answers against cover 0… on any down…. Do that, get them out of cover 0, and there you go.