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Lamar Jackson

SaltyDog

SaltyDog

MVP
QtR Nevermore said:
I don't see anything in those tweets that hurts his situation. In fact, his sharing the Ruiz tweets might even help by drawing attention to them and reminding everyone how good he's been.
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So you think the coaches of other teams don’t know those numbers? If any team is even thinking about paying up they definitely know his stat lines. They also know the stat where he has only won one playoff game in 3 trips, and that he’s missed games at critical times during the past 2 seasons.

The tweets may not be hurting him but they are not helping. He’s basically sparing with fans on twitter. Not a good look.
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
QtR Nevermore said:
As long as the relationship isn't broken beyond repair, the Ravens are still most likely to sign Lamar because they just need each other the most.

Right now, the Ravens decision makers have a lot of fan support and a lot of Ravens fans are 'done with Lamar etc' ( and it's not just the ones who have been waiting to be done with him ever since he was drafted, for 'reasons').

However, that support is very much a part of this moment, with Lamar unsigned and the Ravens in stasis. Fast forward to the middle of the season, with Lamar playing like his usual self somewhere else, putting that team high up in the playoff standings. Meanwhile the Ravens are bad, losing a lot of games, but, because the defense is too good, not losing quite enough to get into position to draft a QB, with only 2 late 1sts in return for their QB.

In that situation, fans will start asking why the Ravens were the only team in decades that couldn't keep their franchise QB. All the criticisms of Harbaugh losing the locker room, driving players away through loyalty to Roman and Saunders, come rushing back. All the criticism of EDC failing to re-sign or build around his QB reappears.

Harbaugh and DeCosta know that their job security is very much tied to Lamar remaining a Raven and so they'll be motivated to pay him. If the breach is mostly financial, Lamar will be back.
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A lot of weird hypotheticals in here.
1. Why are they only getting two late first rounders and who is giving it to them?
2. If we get to that point, everybody will know why we're losing, and everybody will know why they didn't keep Lamar. Basically same thing as today. The Lamar slurpers will likely leave the fanbase anyway, and the one's that stay will know the reasons for it and will understand what the transition to a new QB entails.
This franchise has lost before. It'll lose again. Most fans stayed. Some will leave. No action the Ravens can take will change that.

And if Lamar walks, it won't be because of Eric, because its not really his call. Steve knows this. Eric will get to pick another QB, and then he and John will be evaluated based on how that goes.
 
Tank

Tank

Hall of Famer
RavenRockaRolla said:
The sides are polarized. The Ravens are never going to pay what Lamar Jackson deserves and both sides know it. LJ is definitely not going to play on the Injury Tag for 32 million. Not going to ever happen, everyone knows this. The Ravens need to trade Lamar to the Colts who clearly want him. Irsay wants to sign a LJ to a big contract, just not fully guaranteed. Its doable. Don't want to give LJ up, but the relationship is broken and forcing him to play for low pay has soured LJ off Baltimore.
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Just what is it that Lamar deserves a d how is it justified?
 
A

Adreme

Ravens Ring of Honor
rmcjacket23 said:
Right, but the problem is you're assuming the other parties deal won't change during that time. Josh Allen is going to get an extension and a raise likely in the next 2-3 years. So when Lamar is making $50M in 2025 or 2026, Allen will be making at least that much, if not more.

And why do you think 15% for two years is a good return? For starters, 15% is basically the % of price inflation we've seen the last two years, which means $1.15 today was worth roughly $1 two years ago. So he's not in a better purchasing position.
Second, 7.5% annually is the long run average return on the market over a 20-30 year period, and its much, much, much higher over a 10 year period.

At the very maximum, you could argue its a neutral position to wait. The problem in this particular industry is that people don't get guaranteed contracts, and durability and production pretty much universally decline with age. Couple that with high end players basically being able to readjust their contracts when they see fit, and waiting almost never works out.
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He will get an extension in the next 2-3 years but if Lamar signs a 4-6 year deal so will he so future extensions would be even (though Allen is playing better lately so he will probably get more if they extend around the same time).

Also inflation only matters if you plan on spending the extra 20m+ immediately which you would not. You would be investing most of it and most safe investments or even normal investments would not have paid out 15% over the past 2 years (especially after the fees for making said investments). So the inflation argument is a nonfactor. The only relevant argument is can you make that 20m into 28m in 2 years and the answer is probably not with the market being relatively flat.

As for the risk reward, Lamar had about the worst 2 years possible for him to have had. He played barely above average football and missed the ends of the past 2 years with injury and was STILL offered the big deal because 4 seasons ago he won MVP. The risk was seemingly nonexistent once he won that MVP. Here is how crazy it is. Daniel Jones had 1 year of average football in his entire career and got a contract barley lower (that starts at the same time). It was not even above average. It was decidedly average.
 
BoredMarine13

BoredMarine13

Ravens Ring of Honor
gtalk12 said:
There's like 2 factions of extremists in here lmfao
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I’m enjoying both. My head knows Lamar is what’s best for this team to win a SB. My heart says fuck him, let’s be petty and dump him.
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Adreme said:
He will get an extension in the next 2-3 years but if Lamar signs a 4-6 year deal so will he so future extensions would be even (though Allen is playing better lately so he will probably get more if they extend around the same time).

Also inflation only matters if you plan on spending the extra 20m+ immediately which you would not. You would be investing most of it and most safe investments or even normal investments would not have paid out 15% over the past 2 years (especially after the fees for making said investments). So the inflation argument is a nonfactor. The only relevant argument is can you make that 20m into 28m in 2 years and the answer is probably not with the market being relatively flat.

As for the risk reward, Lamar had about the worst 2 years possible for him to have had. He played barely above average football and missed the ends of the past 2 years with injury and was STILL offered the big deal because 4 seasons ago he won MVP. The risk was seemingly nonexistent once he won that MVP. Here is how crazy it is. Daniel Jones had 1 year of average football in his entire career and got a contract barley lower (that starts at the same time). It was not even above average. It was decidedly average.
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1. I certainly don't think the last two years are the "floor" for Lamar. Obviously, he could simply be more injured than he already was, and obviously, there's no guarantee a new OC will be better for him. Its entirely possible that a new OC installs a more pass-focused offense, asks Lamar to run and scramble less, and we find out that doesn't fit Lamar's skill sets.
Neither of those things happening would surprise anybody who has watched Lamar play the last 4-5 years.
2. Daniel Jones got a contract that was a) shorter in length than the one Lamar was offered, b) was 20% less in AAV, and c) roughly 50% less in practical and gtd at signing guarantees. Jones deal also contains zero guaranteed $ beyond year 2.

Not to mention the obvious caveats, which is that pretty much anybody would assume Allen will have a longer career than Lamar, and at the moment, it seems more likely Lamar will be in year 7 or even year 8 of his career before he signs a long term deal. And the franchise tag isn't even a market-value deal for him.
 
Edgar

Edgar

Ravens Ring of Honor
Hypothetically, If Lamar Jackson were to sit out in 2023, Do the ravens Have any sort of rights to him In 2024 is he A free agent Able to sign Where ever he wishes?
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Edgar said:
Hypothetically, If Lamar Jackson were to sit out in 2023, Do the ravens Have any sort of rights to him In 2024 is he A free agent Able to sign Where ever he wishes?
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If he sits out, he doesn't earn an accrued season. So the Ravens would still have the ability to tag him next year and the year after. He literally only gets to FA next year if the Ravens allow him to.
 
BoredMarine13

BoredMarine13

Ravens Ring of Honor
Davesta

Davesta

Ravens Ring of Honor
Edgar said:
Hypothetically, If Lamar Jackson were to sit out in 2023, Do the ravens Have any sort of rights to him In 2024 is he A free agent Able to sign Where ever he wishes?
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I believe Lamar needs to show up by week 9 or 10 to have a accrued season. If he sits out the whole year, it’s like he’s pushing franchise tag year 1 to next year. So if he wants to crank out these 2 back-to-back tags for true free agency, gotta show up mid season.
 
QtR Nevermore

QtR Nevermore

Pro Bowler
rmcjacket23 said:
A lot of weird hypotheticals in here.
1. Why are they only getting two late first rounders and who is giving it to them?
2. If we get to that point, everybody will know why we're losing, and everybody will know why they didn't keep Lamar. Basically same thing as today. The Lamar slurpers will likely leave the fanbase anyway, and the one's that stay will know the reasons for it and .
This franchise has lost before. It'll lose again. Most fans stayed. Some will leave. No action the Ravens can take will change that.

And if Lamar walks, it won't be because of Eric, because its not really his call. Steve knows this. Eric will get to pick another QB, and then he and John will be evaluated based on how that goes.
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1. They'll get 2 late 1sts because any interested teams with a high pick this year will wait until after the draft to sign him. With Lamar at QB, they're unlikely to be picking before the 20s in the following 2 drafts. Ideas that the Ravens could negotiate higher compensation outwith the tag are just wishful thinking.

2. "Everybody will know why we're losing" and "will understand what the transition to a new QB entails" but when Lamar is on a new team on a contract that won't look much different to the Burrow, Herbert or Hurts deals they might ask why those teams were able to keep their QBs and why the Ravens are needing to start again. I think you're over-estimating the patience of a losing fanbase, especially when the people that put the team in that losing position are still in their jobs.
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
QtR Nevermore said:
1. They'll get 2 late 1sts because any interested teams with a high pick this year will wait until after the draft to sign him. With Lamar at QB, they're unlikely to be picking before the 20s in the following 2 drafts. Ideas that the Ravens could negotiate higher compensation outwith the tag are just wishful thinking.

2. "Everybody will know why we're losing" and "will understand what the transition to a new QB entails" but when Lamar is on a new team on a contract that won't look much different to the Burrow, Herbert or Hurts deals they might ask why those teams were able to keep their QBs and why the Ravens are needing to start again. I think you're over-estimating the patience of a losing fanbase, especially when the people that put the team in that losing position are still in their jobs.
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1. Interested teams with a high pick this year that are trading for Lamar are going to end up giving up more than two first round picks anyway. Not to mention that, depending on the team, Lamar isn't going to be the catalyst to a quick change. If Houston, for example, decides not to take a QB, and trade for Lamar later, they're not going to be a good team this year anyway, so the pick will still be decent. At least top 20, likely top 10-15. All depends on the landing spot.
Realistically, a trade post-draft is unlikely unless a team whiffs in the draft entirely. Said trade is very likely to happen before the draft, or in 2024.
2. Because everybody will know that the reason Lamar didn't sign here was because he didn't want to take the contracts similar to those guys. He wanted more, and couldn't get it. And by the time he realized it, it was too late. Those three guys allowed agents to get them deals timely, and not piss away time on Twitter trolling fans instead of, ya know, calling teams about playing for them.
3. I'm not over-estimating fan patience. I'm under-estimating it. Keep in mind the patience of a fanbase lasts about a month before they start bitching.
The difference is they never move past the bitching phase. The people that are Lamar fans and not Ravens fans aren't going to wait around to see if we're winning or losing anyway. They'll jump ship quick.
People after that will bitch, but they'll still watch, still buy tickets, still buy merch. That's kind of what fans do. They talk the talk, but they don't walk the walk.

We pretty much know this is true by just looking at almost literally every other fanbase. The Jets sell out every game and have a huge TV audience. They've only sucked for decades.
The only franchise I see that has a tangible impact on "lack of patience" is Washington, and it took decades of bad Ownership and incompetence to get to that point.
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Davesta said:
I believe Lamar needs to show up by week 9 or 10 to have a accrued season. If he sits out the whole year, it’s like he’s pushing franchise tag year 1 to next year. So if he wants to crank out these 2 back-to-back tags for true free agency, gotta show up mid season.
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Well and realistically, the whole "he might sit out half the season" thing isn't real.
For starters, he's not the kind of player that can just roll out of bed and play great QB weekly. We've seen that already. With a new OC and likely new weapons, he'll need at least some preseason to be ready for the season.
So if he actually did that, I doubt the Ravens would actually even play him. They'll have rolled half a year with another QB anyway, so they'd just finish it out. He'd probably be inactive, get paid, and we'd look to trade him in the offseason. Let the market decide what they think about his approach and how it will impact his comp value.
 
J

JackPoet

Practice Squad
Hey Lamar, in case you check these boards, just remember.......

Your Mama said there’ll be days like this
There’ll be days like this, your Mama said.
 
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