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Lamar Jackson

Brady was the top paid QB in the league a couple times, and it's hard to prove anything using him when you have the greatest QB ever and possibly the greatest coach ever.

You keep saying it's a fact that teams have done better with QBs on a rookie deal but there's zero actual stats to prove it. When you look at playoff history it hasn't shown any increase in wins for rookie deal QBs.
When Tom Brady was the highest paid, or among them, that was when the Patriots had their playoff drought. The moment he started taking less suddenly they started winning again. When Brady made the SB in NE he was generally between 10-13% of their teams cap which is current dollars is between 22m-30m per year. Now to be fair to the data he was higher that one year in Tampa (though how they pulled that off kind is why they are basically done this year).

To go back even further, aka the start of the salary, only adds 1 name to that list and that is 2009 Peyton Manning at over 16% (who also was 14%) and then after we have 2015 Matt Ryan and then after that a whole of 10-13% or far less as many were under rookie deals. Basically the data shows the opposite what you say it does. It shows you either you have a QB taking below market value OR you have a rookie. Other options seemingly include having a generational top 1 talent at QB that comes along every 15 years. So if you do not have that the data shows you either have a QB take less or you accept just hanging around, sometimes making the divisional around before getting bounced but you are not going to make the SB, but you can sell your fandom the lie that you have a chance.
 
I'm undeniably cynical about the Ravens right now.

I think the team's on-field and off-field philosophies are a bad fit with today's NFL. I think the key decsion makers are stale and complacent and I think wrecking your relationship with your star QB - something that's basically unheard of in the NFL- should be a sackable offense.

Things I do like about the current Ravens... well, Marlon Humphrey seems very likable, but that's about it.
I think we are in a great position. I want Lamar the hell out of here and this seems like a great way to get him. Also in addition to Marlo,
Marcus Williams, JK Dobbins, Mark Andrews, Lindy, Hammy, Ro, Madubuike
 
I think we are in a great position. I want Lamar the hell out of here and this seems like a great way to get him. Also in addition to Marlo,
Marcus Williams, JK Dobbins, Mark Andrews, Lindy, Hammy, Ro, Madubuike
Lamar has pretty much destroyed the Ravens free agency plans this year and has severely hurt our prospects this upcoming season with his unreasonable fully guaranteed demands that no other team wants to give him either.

At this point , the Ravens would jump for joy to get rid of him for 2 1st round picks.

I don't know of any other person that doesn't believe in what I just said.

Many just think he could have played against Cincy and didn't due to not having a long term contract.
 
I think we are in a great position. I want Lamar the hell out of here and this seems like a great way to get him. Also in addition to Marlo,
Marcus Williams, JK Dobbins, Mark Andrews, Lindy, Hammy, Ro, Madubuike
It's a pretty good roster. Definitely one that could be genuinely competitive with Lamar at QB, but not one that could compete without him.

It's the team building philosophy that really annoys me. The heavy investment in low value positions is a plan to raise the floor of the team. Look at the players you listed - a Safety, RB, TE, Center, Box Safety/slot corner, inside linebacker, interior D Line and you could add Kicker too. It's not the recipe for wins in January.

I genuinely think the Ravens built this way because EDC and Harbaugh's #1 priority is preserving their own jobs, and they know that taking the top players at the cheaper positions means they'll never bottom out and get sacked.

They're getting away with it because the owner has checked out and isn't pushing them to be more ambitious. There's no one in a position of power in that building who cares enough to take the risks necessary to actually try to win.
 
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

5 years ago people insisted that this crop of teams (Seahawks, Eagles, etc) could keep their success going and fight for a Super Bowl once they paid their QB and none of them could. 5 years from now when none of these current teams can, we are going to be sitting here having this exact conversation where you, or someone who shares your position, will be saying that the next crop of teams who are dominant (perhaps whoever Caleb Williams goes to as an example) with a rookie will be able to sustain it and the last group with Tua and Allen and Hurts were not reflective of what will happen now.

The fallacy you cite is actually one of the most improperly used fallacies in the world. It has one strict application and that is when a decision is made without context it does not lend itself to proving or disproving what the next decision will be. Its most common correct application is in gambling as people often win making the provably wrong decision but they lose in the end because in the long run you can prove what is likely to happen. That is the important part. If I gave you 10 random instances where a 10-0 team played an 0-10 team and gave you even odds, and a straight up game, would you really bet on the 0-10 team ever? The 0-10 team will probably win 1 of those 10 or maybe even 2 but you will lose in the long run betting on the 0-10.

Or to give a more concrete example, if I gave you 35-1 odds that the Texans would win the Super Bowl would you take that bet, and bet on the Texans to win it all? If past performance truly does not indicate future results, you should take that bet, but, and we both know this it would be a terrible bet to take.

The correct use of that fallacy is to accept that the trends over time will tend to continue regardless of individual outliers. Its the reason teams pay great players because they performed well and based on past players of similar age and playtime that is likely to continue. To truly follow through on that fallacy you should never pay anyone and trade all your picks to maximize 6th and 7th round picks because if past performance does not matter you can just draft 70 random players each year and have a contender because you took more shots. Yes this is an insane notion but that is the fundamental problem with that taking that "fallacy" literally. In business there are always people who think they can succeed where others failed and they usually fail but sometimes they do succeed but that does not make the latter correct more often than not (and when they do it is not by following the exact same formula).
Yeah except none of the examples you're citing are comparable to NFL teams constructing rosters. No two teams have assembled their roster in the same way. They're not doing the same thing over and over again. They're doing very, very, very different things over and over again. No two teams are alike in terms of how they construct their roster, how they allocate their salary cap, how they deal with injuries, coaching, etc. The differences outweigh the similarities by a gigantic margin.

The teams you referenced, like Seattle and Philly, didn't sustain success because once the QB stopped playing well, its a wrap. They had QBs producing at mid-tier levels, which resulted in the teams having mid-tier results. That's kind of the baseline of the argument. Is your QB playing well? If he is, you're in a great spot, regardless of how expensive he is. If he's not, you're probably fucked, regardless of how expensive he is.

Your betting analogy is total shit also. It's pretty clear you don't bet very often or understand markets.
Would I take the Texans at 35-1 to win the SB? No. Why would 35-1 be a good price for them? That implies that nearly every team has an equal opportunity to win. Why would that be true? How did you arrive at 35-1?
If you said it was 200-1, which is what the current market odds are, would I bet the Texans? Sure, why not? The nature of betting is based on risk/reward. So how much am I required to wager? If its $5, sure, I'll put $5 on the Texans at 200-1. What's the worst case scenario? I lose $5?

History says you shouldn't bet on the Jets to win the SB. Anybody really going to mock taking them at 14-1 to win it today? Good luck with that.

Same thing with your little 10-0 vs 0-10 analysis. Why would I accept an even $ wager, when the true odds would be between 5-10x? Just because historical actions can sometimes predict future events, doesn't mean there's an even probability of it happening, because there isn't.

I'm not really sure if you understand how statistical modeling works.
 
I've thought about this a lot and I think that teams probably were never going to even try and negotiate with Lamar until after the draft. Think about it.

Firstly, why commit to Lamar right now without seeing how the draft board falls. Maybe AR15 at pick number 10 or something is far more palatable.

Secondly, with Lamar on your team your draft pick next year is definitely going to be lower than this year so wait till after the draft, get your guy that could help your team with Lamar this year and give up less meaningful capital starting next year.

Finally, teams probably didn't expect the nonexclusive and were likely not financially set up for a Lamar immediately. So the barrier is quite high in many different ways to get him.

I'm not saying it will happen by any means, but I'd not be surprised if someone potentially made an offer after the draft dust settles
 
I dnt see the hype in herbert and never have.. big arm who throws for a lot of yards… hasnt done anything and always throws ints in 2nd half of football.. havent showed he is a winner at all.
Yeah he's actually just so mid. All stats and no winning. His record is atrocious
 
Yeah he's actually just so mid. All stats and no winning. His record is atrocious
I mean, wins aren't a QB stat. The Chargers are often injury riddled, working with subpar weapons on offense, and some really bad OCs in recent history. Not saying Herbert is on the level of Mahomes or Burrow, but he's probably the only reason they've been competitive in many of their games. He's definitely top ten in the league.
 
I mean, wins aren't a QB stat. The Chargers are often injury riddled, working with subpar weapons on offense, and some really bad OCs in recent history. Not saying Herbert is on the level of Mahomes or Burrow, but he's probably the only reason they've been competitive in many of their games. He's definitely top ten in the league.
Which would make him mid. Idk if you know I mean the slang term mid. Not meaning middle like around QB16
 
Which would make him mid. Idk if you know I mean the slang term mid. Not meaning middle like around QB16
Mid means mediocre, and no QB in the top ten is mediocre. Not unless you think there's only four or five QBs in the league that can be called good.
 
Lamar has pretty much destroyed the Ravens free agency plans this year and has severely hurt our prospects this upcoming season with his unreasonable fully guaranteed demands that no other team wants to give him either.

At this point , the Ravens would jump for joy to get rid of him for 2 1st round picks.

I don't know of any other person that doesn't believe in what I just said.

Many just think he could have played against Cincy and didn't due to not having a long term contract.
FUCK lamar
 
FUCK lamar
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