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Lamar Jackson

rossihunter2 said:
you only have at most 11 qbs ahead of joe?

Off the top of my head Ill see how many i can name:

Drew Brees
Pat Mahomes
Jared Goff
Aaron Rodgers
Phillip Rivers
Andrew Luck
Tom Brady
Matt Ryan
Carson Wentz
Kirk Cousins
Mitch Trubisky
Big Ben
Russel Wilson
Cam Newton
Deshaun Watson
Matt Stafford

those are just the inarguable ones
you could make arguments for more qbs to be ahead of him as well
10-12 is laughable - maybe in 2014 you could say he was 10-12 but not anymore
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I kind of think Stafford and Joe are close in rankings personally. That’s just my opinion though.
 
redrum52 said:
This is why I usually end my back and forth after that question. When you have an understanding of where the person is ranked by both parties, you can see where either side is coming from and decide if it the conversation is worth it.
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good point
 
rossihunter2 said:
those sections are not fixed though - its not like there's always a top 10 group of elite qbs, then the next 10 average guys and then a group of 12 bad qbs

better qbs coming in just makes the elite section larger and the good section larger - you end up in a league with fewer bad qbs not the same number...

and you literally gave me 2011 as an example and there are at least 5 more competent qb situations in 2018 than in 2011 - that's not insignificant - that means that the league has at least 15% better qb situations... likely more... 15% is a lot

you're arguments about qb play literally assumes that defences improve at the same rate - which quite clearly they dont - in fact they are getting worse - which makes the relative level of qb play even higher than it was before... that means more teams with good offensive play which invariably means a higher level of play all around the nfl
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My argument has literally nothing to do with defenses playing better.
 
rossihunter2 said:
rivers has had some awful coordinators and head coaches
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Yeah he’s had bad coaching but still produced that’s why I think he’s on another tier compared to Joe. He’s done well despite bad coaching but Joe seems to fight through the bad coaching but doesn’t get over the hump
 
3-4ravdef509 said:
Wouldn’t take Luck over him based on injury, but perhaps on talent and play. I wouldn’t take Watson yet , Newton, Cousins, Stafford or Trubisky yet

So that puts him 10-12 like I said.
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then i dont know what you're watching - we must be watching a completely different sport
 
redrum52 said:
This is why I usually end my back and forth after that question. When you have an understanding of where the person is ranked by both parties, you can see where either side is coming from and decide if it the conversation is worth it.
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haha it took this long - but ive finally got my answer on that account lol
 
3-4ravdef509 said:
You guys seem to be quick on qbs that only have one two or less years of good play. I’m just not of that thought process.
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It is true that there isn’t much tape on those young QBs wirh one year, but Mahomes along with many others mentioned are going to be here to stay. Not a fan of Dak and I’m not totally on board with Mitch Prescott, but most of the top QBs drafted in the last three drafts have done very well and yes they have had very good coaching, for the most part.
 
Militant X 1 said:
ABSOLUTELY!

LoaK8L2.gif
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oh man i cant wait to see billy dee in star wars again
 
3-4ravdef509 said:
You guys seem to be quick on qbs that only have one two or less years of good play. I’m just not of that thought process.
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when has flacco ever shown a level of play equivalent to some of these guys (apart from 4 playoff games and those playoff games are now 6 years ago)
 
Grim said:
I kind of think Stafford and Joe are close in rankings personally. That’s just my opinion though.
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that's probably fair - id personally say stafford's clearly the better qb right now but i think you could make a case given the play of both this year that they might be similar

but you could also add in plenty of other qbs like even andy dalton who would go ahead of joe at the moment tbh (which is crazy given what we all thought of dalton pre-2015)
 
Grim said:
Yeah he’s had bad coaching but still produced that’s why I think he’s on another tier compared to Joe. He’s done well despite bad coaching but Joe seems to fight through the bad coaching but doesn’t get over the hump
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that really shouldnt ever have been an argument tbh - rivers is a different class to joe in terms of pure quarterbacking
 
RavensMania said:
It is true that there isn’t much tape on those young QBs wirh one year, but Mahomes along with many others mentioned are going to be here to stay. Not a fan of Dak and I’m not totally on board with Mitch Prescott, but most of the top QBs drafted in the last three drafts have done very well and yes they have had very good coaching, for the most part.
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im a big fan of that Mitch Prescott kid who plays for the Chicago Cowboys
 
RavensMania said:
It is true that there isn’t much tape on those young QBs wirh one year, but Mahomes along with many others mentioned are going to be here to stay. Not a fan of Dak and I’m not totally on board with Mitch Prescott, but most of the top QBs drafted in the last three drafts have done very well and yes they have had very good coaching, for the most part.
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When you look back through NFL history there are countless examples of one year or two year wonders.
 
This Flacco convo is like me saying Megatron is still top 5 wr right now. The last few years don't matter cause if you remember back, he was at the top of his game. In the NFL you must consistently come to work and produce. No one cares about the back in the day stories until the cleats are hung up.
 
3-4ravdef509 said:
Marino at least played in a Super Bowl and was considered the best. Rivers isn’t considered even top 5 right now or at any point in his career.

Plenty of qbs make it eventually or came out of weak draft classes or eras with far less competent quarterback play. Rivers might make It eventually in a weak HOF class but doubtful it’s going to be easy at this point.
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Hahahahahahaha you think Rivers has never been a top 5 QB. Hahahaha when did you start watching football last year?
 
In a league with Brady, Rodgers, Peyton before he retired, Brees, Ben, Ryan and other quarterbacks with rings and playoff success , yeah he’s never really been top 5 and if he has it was like once or twice
 
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