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Lamar Jackson

airconteka said:
So on a $240m contract what is the maximum you would guarantee? If it's like $200m then I hardly think that would sink your franchise much differently than if it were fully guaranteed. If it goes wrong it's 5 years of pain vs 4 I guess.
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All assumptions are based off current reports that he is looking for a fully guaranteed contract. Thats my point with Watson not being the norm, it was an idiotic move by the Browns. But Lamar maybe telling the Ravens thats my starting point and with each year it goes up with a rising cap
 
BoredMarine13 said:
All assumptions are based off current reports that he is looking for a fully guaranteed contract. Thats my point with Watson not being the norm, it was an idiotic move by the Browns. But Lamar maybe telling the Ravens thats my starting point and with each year it goes up with a rising cap
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I understood your point, my question was what's your max guarantee you'd pay Lamar. Kyler with a much lesser body of work got $160m. Everyone knows Lamar is way better, he's one of 2 players to get an unanimous MVP. So tell me why you wouldn't guarantee $200m and then why realistically that's any different from a fully guaranteed $240m from an organisational risk perspective. I get you like to shit on the Browns but these non guaranteed contracts are unique to the NFL and will eventually be eradicated.
 
airconteka said:
So tell me why you wouldn't guarantee $200m and then why realistically that's any different from a fully guaranteed $240m from an organisational risk perspective.
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I would guarantee 3 year 155mil. Anything less then 50 Mil a year would be difficult to justify. That would put Lamar at 51.6 annually. That gives us control of Lamar for 4 years at just under $180 Mil. Well see were we stand with Lamar and do another extension if he is still successful
airconteka said:
non guaranteed contracts are unique to the NFL and will eventually be eradicated.
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Based on two contracts?(Cousins and Watson) Unless more players are willing to sign shorter guaranteed deals l 'm skeptical we’re going to be seeing many more players getting fully guaranteed contracts. If they get rid of the escrow rule, than yes I see it being more likely. The CBA rule mandating that any fully guaranteed money be placed into escrow needs to go. This means that even if the guarantees are paid to the player over the course of one, two, or even three years, ownership still must place all of that guaranteed money into a separate bank account. Owners don’t like to do this because they’d rather not part with money until they absolutely have to.
 
BoredMarine13 said:
I would guarantee 3 year 155mil. Anything less then 50 Mil a year would be difficult to justify. That would put Lamar at 51.6 annually. That gives us control of Lamar for 4 years at just under $180 Mil. Well see were we stand with Lamar and do another extension if he is still successful

Based on two contracts?(Cousins and Watson) Unless more players are willing to sign shorter guaranteed deals l 'm skeptical we’re going to be seeing many more players getting fully guaranteed contracts. If they get rid of the escrow rule, than yes I see it being more likely. The CBA rule mandating that any fully guaranteed money be placed into escrow needs to go. This means that even if the guarantees are paid to the player over the course of one, two, or even three years, ownership still must place all of that guaranteed money into a separate bank account. Owners don’t like to do this because they’d rather not part with money until they absolutely have to.
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So you are offering less money than Kyler got, he will never sign that.

Guaranteed contracts becoming the norm I'm basing it on the fact that other sports have far more favourable contractual arrangements and if they don't adjust kids will move to other sports.
 
airconteka said:
So you are offering less money than Kyler got, he will never sign that.
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Over the three year span of the contract Lamar would make 6 million more annually than Kyler. He would also be the highest paid player in the NFL at 51.6 annually. That's more then Rodgers who has a Super Bowl and multiple MVPs......
 
airconteka said:
Guaranteed contracts becoming the norm I'm basing it on the fact that other sports have far more favourable contractual arrangements
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NFL is the gold standard even if we don't agree with how business is conducted. The NBA, Premier League, MLB have a long way to go before they catch the NFL in terms of revenue. So maybe the NFL doesn't care how the other leagues do business?
airconteka said:
and if they don't adjust kids will move to other sports.
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Maybe, probably not. Football is king in the states and always will be. I highly doubt kids are adjusting sports based off the professional leagues stance on contract structure.
 
BoredMarine13 said:
Over the three year span of the contract Lamar would make 6 million more annually than Kyler. He would also be the highest paid player in the NFL at 51.6 annually. That's more then Rodgers who has a Super Bowl and multiple MVPs......
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The impasse clearly appears about guarantees so can't see that deal happening.
 
BoredMarine13 said:
NFL is the gold standard even if we don't agree with how business is conducted. The NBA, Premier League, MLB have a long way to go before they catch the NFL in terms of revenue. So maybe the NFL doesn't care how the other leagues do business?

Maybe, probably not. Football is king in the states and always will be. I highly doubt kids are adjusting sports based off the professional leagues stance on contract structure.
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No doubt NFL earns the most revenue but ultimately they protect that revenue by having the greatest product by attracting the greatest athletes. Kids are adjusting but their parents are and with all the challenges around CTE etc thinking that you don't need to catch up with other leagues is short sighted imo.
 
airconteka said:
No doubt NFL earns the most revenue but ultimately they protect that revenue by having the greatest product by attracting the greatest athletes. Kids are adjusting but their parents are and with all the challenges around CTE etc thinking that you don't need to catch up with other leagues is short sighted imo.
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Maybe. The issues I have with this are:
1. Fully guaranteed contracts doesn't solve anything related to CTE. Most people that have CTE a) will never know they had it, even when they're dead and b) aren't pro football players. They're high school players, college players, etc. The fraction of kids who will ever make the NFL is so small that I don't see how going to fully guaranteed contracts is going to solve the big picture problem.
2. NFL is obviously an inherently more dangerous sport than pretty much any other pro sport, which is why the franchises aren't likely to start doing full guarantees for players. One significant injury to a player under a fully guaranteed contract for years, and you've got yourself tens of millions of dollars being flushed down the toilet.
3. You could make somewhat of an argument that fully guaranteed contracts would hurt the product, i.e. decrease the motivation of players. If I sign Lamar to a six year deal, fully guaranteed, what's driving him? It's artificial or personal at that point, not monetary. One of the strongest possible motivators in any walk of life is large amounts of income, and one of the reasons so many players play so well for so long is because they know that, if they don't, they'll be forced into involuntary retirement.

End of day, I actually could, theoretically, see NFL teams going to fully guaranteed contracts. It has a precisely 0% chance of happening at a 50% revenue share, however. If players were willing to take, say, a 20-30% paycut across the board, in exchange for fully guaranteed contracts, MAYBE that's enticing. An arbitrary percentage for sure, but the players don't have anywhere in the stratosphere enough power to get fully guaranteed deals at the current revenue sharing level. The owners would lock them out and play with amateurs long, long, long before that happened. And people would still watch too.
 
Give him a huge 50M signing bonus and 15M salary in year one, then and the rest over 4 more years guaranteed over that period at 45M/yr. That gives him bragging rights on the larger signing bonus and the highest yearly salary. Anything short of those two benchmarks, I don't think he signs. And if we do well this year the price goes up by 25%.
 
airconteka said:
I understood your point, my question was what's your max guarantee you'd pay Lamar. Kyler with a much lesser body of work got $160m. Everyone knows Lamar is way better, he's one of 2 players to get an unanimous MVP. So tell me why you wouldn't guarantee $200m and then why realistically that's any different from a fully guaranteed $240m from an organisational risk perspective. I get you like to shit on the Browns but these non guaranteed contracts are unique to the NFL and will eventually be eradicated.
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For me, I don't really have an answer.
The Watson deal isn't on the table for me if I'm Steve.

I'm half intrigued to just let Lamar do this year and next year on the tag, and see what happens. Realistically, next year on the tag is a good barometer because a) it'll extremely limit what we can do in FA, due to the huge price tag and b) it'll make it very hard, if not impossible, to do what fans want, which is give some stud, veteran WR somewhere that nobody can name.

And I think its all fair. If Lamar plays under what I assume is the exclusive tag next year, probably looking at a cap hit of at least $40M, and probably closer to $45M. So he'll be taking up at least 20% of the total cap space. If he can win doing that, then I'd open up the check book. If he can't, then that's about as good as its going to get for him on a long term deal. So then, if I'm Steve, I'm just asking "what am I getting for it".

A $50M AAV is what I'd be seeking if I'm Lamar, which means it's a question of years and guarantees. If he wants the most guarantees ever, then you've gotta do like a 7-8 year deal at $350-400M, with like $250M guaranteed. My guess is the Ravens won't do that.

If Lamar actually just wants a fully guaranteed contract, then I'd just go for like a 3 year, $150M, fully guaranteed deal, and call it a day. Maybe go a little lower on the AAV, since most people knows AAV is bullshit anyway. But, of course, the shorter the deal, the less cap flexibility you have.
 
All of the sports channels are saying the following two things.

1) Lamar wants a fully guaranteed deal
2) Bisciotti is blocking a fully guaranteed deal

They're reporting these almost as if they're facts though. Super weird
 
UPennChem said:
All of the sports channels are saying the following two things.

1) Lamar wants a fully guaranteed deal
2) Bisciotti is blocking a fully guaranteed deal

They're reporting these almost as if they're facts though. Super weird
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Was that Sportscenter? It would make sense. Such a weird spot to be in as a fan because I think Lamar deserves to ask for a Watson like deal and I'd be pumped for him if he got it. I also want to be competitive in free agency and that much money going to one player makes it difficult.
 
Ellicottraven said:
Has anybody given any thought to how this rookie class may end up being if both Kolar and Ojabo ball out this season??
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I haven't, mostly because I don't see a path to Kolar having significant playing time. I'm not even sure he has a clear path to a gameday active unless an injury happens.
 
BoredMarine13 said:
Was that Sportscenter? It would make sense. Such a weird spot to be in as a fan because I think Lamar deserves to ask for a Watson like deal and I'd be pumped for him if he got it. I also want to be competitive in free agency and that much money going to one player makes it difficult.
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It was Good Morning Football, SportsCenter, and Jalen and Jacoby
 
Ellicottraven said:
Has anybody given any thought to how this rookie class may end up being if both Kolar and Ojabo ball out this season??
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pretty hard for Kolar to ball out if both Andrews is having a good year and Likely is getting maybe 500 yards.

Looks like the Ravens 2nd TE is again the better player. Yes, it's a bit soon to say that, but it does look like it.
 
BoredMarine13 said:
I would guarantee 3 year 155mil. Anything less then 50 Mil a year would be difficult to justify. That would put Lamar at 51.6 annually. That gives us control of Lamar for 4 years at just under $180 Mil. Well see were we stand with Lamar and do another extension if he is still successful

Based on two contracts?(Cousins and Watson) Unless more players are willing to sign shorter guaranteed deals l 'm skeptical we’re going to be seeing many more players getting fully guaranteed contracts. If they get rid of the escrow rule, than yes I see it being more likely. The CBA rule mandating that any fully guaranteed money be placed into escrow needs to go. This means that even if the guarantees are paid to the player over the course of one, two, or even three years, ownership still must place all of that guaranteed money into a separate bank account. Owners don’t like to do this because they’d rather not part with money until they absolutely have to.
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I completely agree that this guaranteed money part is the clog that is stopping owners, especially our own Steve Bisciotti. Putting away that kind of money in escrow makes absolutely no sense. They should replace it with personal guarantees from the team owners/teams. However, they can still keep the yearly payout for guaranteed sums in escrow beginning of that year as a compromise.
 
Ellicottraven said:
I completely agree that this guaranteed money part is the clog that is stopping owners, especially our own Steve Bisciotti. Putting away that kind of money in escrow makes absolutely no sense. They should replace it with personal guarantees from the team owners/teams. However, they can still keep the yearly payout for guaranteed sums in escrow beginning of that year as a compromise.
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Exactly this. Owners who are actively working businessmen need those funds. Khalil Mack got traded because the Vegas relocation left mark davis relatively broke and didn’t have the funds to guarantee his deal
 
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