Lamar Jackson

[UPennChem]

why dont you think lamar would negotiate while tagged?

Because i think the situation is cut and dry for Lamar from his perspective. I think he has a specific number plain and simple. If the Ravens offer him that number he'd sign right away. If this has to progress deep into offseason on the tag, it's because the Ravens clearly do not want to give him that number. In which case Lamar is gonna say ok you don't value me as I think I should be, I'm gonna ride out these tags as its going to maximize my total gain able wealth.

 

[rossihunter2]

Because i think the situation is cut and dry for Lamar from his perspective. I think he has a specific number plain and simple. If the Ravens offer him that number he'd sign right away. If this has to progress deep into offseason on the tag, it's because the Ravens clearly do not want to give him that number. In which case Lamar is gonna say ok you don't value me as I think I should be, I'm gonna ride out these tags as its going to maximize my total gain able wealth.

i think the only reason lamar would take his ball and go home and stop negotiating is if he doesnt want to be here and there have been no indications of that at all

 

[redrum52]

It’s a dangerous game to play if he’s really taking that route. We still don’t know if it’s true . ….He may get a massive contact at the end of the day but you start losing locker rooms. Every misstep then leads to additional scrutiny .

Agree. That said if I'm Lamar I've saved jobs and still not seen a dime or the commitment I want. Still stuck with Roman and I'm coming back to throw to *checks notes* DeSean Jackson, Andy Isabella, Demarcus Robinson and James Proche.

 

[QtR Nevermore]

I hate looking at Lamar trade scenarios because that isn't a possibility I want to consider. I don't why any Ravens fans want to think about it.

Haven't we all spent years looking at the teams who actually had a top QB, wishing it was us? Being jealous of the way they'd always make the playoffs, no matter how much they fucked up? Now we're in that exact same situation, with a team that should be picking in the top 10, preparing for the playoffs because we've got a QB, yet some people are wishing it away because they want to give EDC some picks to use on Defensive Tackles, Safeties and Guards? (Because he thinks it's so clever to take positions other teams don't value.)

 

[rossihunter2]

I hate looking at Lamar trade scenarios because that isn't a possibility I want to consider. I don't why any Ravens fans want to think about it.

Haven't we all spent years looking at the teams who actually had a top QB, wishing it was us? Being jealous of the way they'd always make the playoffs, no matter how much they fucked up? Now we're in that exact same situation, with a team that should be picking in the top 10, preparing for the playoffs because we've got a QB, yet some people are wishing it away because they want to give EDC some picks to use on Defensive Tackles, Safeties and Guards? (Because he thinks it's so clever to take positions other teams don't value.)

yeah if a trade looks imminent or happens - that's when ill start worrying about compensation lol

but right now i only want to think looking forward about the team with Lamar on it and how we design our offence and team around him in 2023 and beyond

 

[rmcjacket23]

I hate looking at Lamar trade scenarios because that isn't a possibility I want to consider. I don't why any Ravens fans want to think about it.

Haven't we all spent years looking at the teams who actually had a top QB, wishing it was us? Being jealous of the way they'd always make the playoffs, no matter how much they fucked up? Now we're in that exact same situation, with a team that should be picking in the top 10, preparing for the playoffs because we've got a QB, yet some people are wishing it away because they want to give EDC some picks to use on Defensive Tackles, Safeties and Guards? (Because he thinks it's so clever to take positions other teams don't value.)

Well, couple things:
1. I'm not jealous of the teams that make the playoffs consistently. I'm jealous of the Chiefs, Packers, Patriots (with Brady) type teams that not only make the playoffs nearly every year, but advance far in the playoffs most years and play in SBs more than once a decade (which is still a great accomplishment in the grand scheme of things).
That's not been the Ravens in the Lamar era.

2. The worst case scenario is you pay tons of money to a player that doesn't win playoff games. That's the worst case scenario. And the more money the QB makes, the more dependent you are on the GM to win drafts. So you can't have one without the other.

None of this is to say Lamar can't win playoff games. I think he can and will. Its just that he hasn't. Basically I'm paying Lamar for the exact opposite of why we paid Joe... we're paying Lamar because he's an MVP-level regular season player. That's what his career has shown to this point. If he grows into a postseason MVP level player, sky's the limit on what this franchise can do. If he doesn't, you're going to pay a lot of money for a lot of years just like 2021 and 2022. We'll keep being the team that THINKS we can beat everybody, instead of the team that DOES beat everybody.

I'll say this as well...I don't think its a foregone conclusion this franchise goes into the tank if Lamar leaves. I think it may for a year or two, but there are exceptional QBs coming out of pretty much every single draft class these days. And there's no reason to think we can't land one of them.

I also totally disagree this is a team that's picking in the top 10 without Lamar. I think this team wins 6-7 games this year with Huntley, and I'm not a fan of Huntley. And that's like the floor. If you had a different QB that's better than Huntley but not Lamar, I think this could be an 8-9 win team.

This team, with Huntley at QB, is basically the same level of teams as the Browns, Steelers, Jets, Titans, Commanders-type teams are today. Those aren't bad teams. They're just average teams.

 

[Dom McRaven]

@JAAM , let's raise the stakes. We both #SIIE'd Lamar to a long-term extension. If we fail and Lamar leaves via trade or FA next offseason or whatever, I'm retiring the #SIIE forever.

 

[rmcjacket23]

why dont you think lamar would negotiate while tagged?

I think its possible. I think he'll "negotiate", but said negotiation might involve "here's my number... I'm not budging".

If you're Lamar, you pretty much know you can make $100M in the next two years by doing literally nothing additional. No negotiations or anything, and you'll get $100M over the next two years. May be for two different teams, but you know the Ravens will give you $45M next year, and you can be pretty confident somebody, including maybe the Ravens, will pay you $50-55M in 2024.

That's essentially market value. He can get market value for the next two years while not negotiating literally anything.

AND, after that, he's a totally unrestricted FA, meaning he can get market value again... at 28. Can still play for the Ravens, or play for literally anybody willing to pay you.

So there are plenty of scenarios I see where Lamar says "I'll take market value for the next two years, play for the Ravens, and then see what happens after that". And the only thing that would change his mind is whether or not he'll come down off whatever arbitrary price he wants.

Now, on the flip side, my sense for the Ravens is a) they have zero interest in Lamar hitting the actual FA market and b) if they get to a point where they think he will, they will look to trade him for top dollar almost immediately.

 

[Thezone27]

Yeah, these picks aren't realistic in my eyes. They don't factor in the idea that a team acquiring him needs to pay him market value immediately.
3 first rounders is fine and a couple additional picks, but like you're talking like 10 total draft picks. That ain't happening in this universe.

Texans for sure won't do that, because there's no possible way they value the #1 overall pick in the draft that low compared to Lamar. Like no matter which QB they take at #1, that QB isn't like 10 high draft picks worse than Lamar.

Whoever came up with these trade scenarios needs to pass the joint immediately.

I tried shutting them down, but I was shut down.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I tried shutting them down, but I was shut down.

OK, do us all a favor... don't post idiot posts from other sites on here. Those people have no clue what they're talking about. No need to perpetuate their bad opinions.

 

[OURavensFan]

RSR had a trade scenario where we trade with the Falcons and the guy was bragging about then we’d sign Geno Smith. And we’d draft a pass rusher and RB in the 1st.

Please god just sign Lamar

 

[OURavensFan]

Well, couple things:
1. I'm not jealous of the teams that make the playoffs consistently. I'm jealous of the Chiefs, Packers, Patriots (with Brady) type teams that not only make the playoffs nearly every year, but advance far in the playoffs most years and play in SBs more than once a decade (which is still a great accomplishment in the grand scheme of things).
That's not been the Ravens in the Lamar era.

2. The worst case scenario is you pay tons of money to a player that doesn't win playoff games. That's the worst case scenario. And the more money the QB makes, the more dependent you are on the GM to win drafts. So you can't have one without the other.

None of this is to say Lamar can't win playoff games. I think he can and will. Its just that he hasn't. Basically I'm paying Lamar for the exact opposite of why we paid Joe... we're paying Lamar because he's an MVP-level regular season player. That's what his career has shown to this point. If he grows into a postseason MVP level player, sky's the limit on what this franchise can do. If he doesn't, you're going to pay a lot of money for a lot of years just like 2021 and 2022. We'll keep being the team that THINKS we can beat everybody, instead of the team that DOES beat everybody.

I'll say this as well...I don't think its a foregone conclusion this franchise goes into the tank if Lamar leaves. I think it may for a year or two, but there are exceptional QBs coming out of pretty much every single draft class these days. And there's no reason to think we can't land one of them.

I also totally disagree this is a team that's picking in the top 10 without Lamar. I think this team wins 6-7 games this year with Huntley, and I'm not a fan of Huntley. And that's like the floor. If you had a different QB that's better than Huntley but not Lamar, I think this could be an 8-9 win team.

This team, with Huntley at QB, is basically the same level of teams as the Browns, Steelers, Jets, Titans, Commanders-type teams are today. Those aren't bad teams. They're just average teams.

I don’t think Huntley can get us 6 wins, we would have the leagues worst offense with him.

the ravens have been held to 17 or fewer points in five straight games (lamar jackson has only played one quarter in this span).

The last time baltimore failed to score more than 17 points in five consecutive games was 2005, when kyle boller and anthony wright were its qbs.

 

[rmcjacket23]

RSR had a trade scenario where we trade with the Falcons and the guy was bragging about then we’d sign Geno Smith. And we’d draft a pass rusher and RB in the 1st.

Please god just sign Lamar

On Geno, Seahawks got the better end of that deal because Wilson sucks, not because Geno is great.
Geno isn't in the long term answer there or anymore. And if Seattle opts not to draft a QB high next year, they're going to figure that out.

 

[Thezone27]

On Geno, Seahawks got the better end of that deal because Wilson sucks, not because Geno is great.
Geno isn't in the long term answer there or anymore. And if Seattle opts not to draft a QB high next year, they're going to figure that out.

Well it does seem like quarterbacks do suspiciously well in Seattle. Maybe it is Pete Carroll, and not the QBs themselves. It sure seems like WIlson is bad.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I don’t think Huntley can get us 6 wins, we would have the leagues worst offense with him.

the ravens have been held to 17 or fewer points in five straight games (lamar jackson has only played one quarter in this span).

The last time baltimore failed to score more than 17 points in five consecutive games was 2005, when kyle boller and anthony wright were its qbs.

Maybe. It's not exactly apples to apples, because offensive output can correlate with defensive output, but...
If the Ravens scored exactly 17 points in every game throughout the season this year, they'd be 8-7-1.

With Huntley at QB and a largely healthy roster (basically what we have today), I think the Ravens would beat the Jets, Saints, Panthers, Broncos and Falcons. And I think they'd split with the Browns and Steelers. Not totally unconvinced we wouldn't beat the Patriots either.

 

[RavensMania]

if (and it's a big if) we beat the Bengals and the NFL does a random generator, we could win the division, even though we would have 1 more loss due to playing one more game.

 

[RavensMania]

Well it does seem like quarterbacks do suspiciously well in Seattle. Maybe it is Pete Carroll, and not the QBs themselves. It sure seems like WIlson is bad.

partly due to Lockett and Metcalf as well as a good running backs.

 

[OURavensFan]

if (and it's a big if) we beat the Bengals and the NFL does a random generator, we could win the division, even though we would have 1 more loss due to playing one more game.

I thought they’re only doing that for the Chiefs schedule to determine the 1 seed? But if they’re doing it to Bengals we could still lose that random generator draw

 

[RavensMania]

I thought they’re only doing that for the Chiefs schedule to determine the 1 seed? But if they’re doing it to Bengals we could still lose that random generator draw

maybe that is the case, but I'm not sure what they plan on doing with the other teams that this is going to affect. They are basically giving them the higher seed even though if they lost they would end up being the wild card.......even though we beat them twice (assuming we win this weekend) and had a better divisional record.

 

[OURavensFan]

maybe that is the case, but I'm not sure what they plan on doing with the other teams that this is going to affect. They are basically giving them the higher seed even though if they lost they would end up being the wild card.......even though we beat them twice (assuming we win this weekend) and had a better divisional record.

Yea, but if they had beaten the Bills that would still have been the case. Right now it looks like it’s going to be us at Bengals for the wild card which honestly may just be what this team needs, play a division rival, those games are always close and equalizing. If we win that we have serious momentum