The 2023 Offseason Thread

[rmcjacket23]

Pot calling the kettle black. There's no accountability for yourself either. Every time you're proven "wrong" on an argument you just disappear.

Exactly. So we're basing the idea that we will acquire the players we want and then fans won't blame management for the failures on what, exactly?

 

[Michael M.]

Idk I've personally consistently and uniformly been advocating for MP not an improvement. It's basically impossible to get an improvement in FA without trading. Your other alternative is to draft early. EDC chose WR early and given that he did, MP / RYS (who we clearly at least like in theory) are as good as it's gonna get.

What's funny is your bait about Marlon getting hurt. You're the one (and rightfully so) that constantly talks about the fact that it's impossible for teams to have extremely high quality depth at all positions.

Last year we didn't have starting level talent let alone depth at WR. Now we have both. And at CB, once we sign MP/RYS we're also going to have both albeit the depth might not be the absolute highest quality.

Yeah there's not gonna be true consensus on here. Some people think Stephens doesn't belong on the team. Some people think Pepe and Stephens play the same position. But for all intents and purposes, the moderate fan here is gonna be very happy with what EDC has done this year from a roster construction perspective.

In the past we've complained about complete inattention the the OL or WR rooms. Here we're fucking quibbling about 1 CB2/CB3 depending on how you think about it.

Call me out if later in the year I blame anything this season on EDC

I've been quite happy with how EDC has handled the offseason, as nerve wracking as it was. From the coaching changes to the the signing of Lamar, the draft and the undrafted free agent signings. I feel like he did a great job with what he's had to work with and deal with. I'm just not comfortable with the current CB roster but I think we"ll see an addition or 2. Will that result in a vast improvement? I don't know. I would like to see MP back for his passion and leadership, especially now with Calais gone. But you can't pay a guy just for that.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Idk I've personally consistently and uniformly been advocating for MP not an improvement. It's basically impossible to get an improvement in FA without trading. Your other alternative is to draft early. EDC chose WR early and given that he did, MP / RYS (who we clearly at least like in theory) are as good as it's gonna get.

What's funny is your bait about Marlon getting hurt. You're the one (and rightfully so) that constantly talks about the fact that it's impossible for teams to have extremely high quality depth at all positions.

Last year we didn't have starting level talent let alone depth at WR. Now we have both. And at CB, once we sign MP/RYS we're also going to have both albeit the depth might not be the absolute highest quality.

Yeah there's not gonna be true consensus on here. Some people think Stephens doesn't belong on the team. Some people think Pepe and Stephens play the same position. But for all intents and purposes, the moderate fan here is gonna be very happy with what EDC has done this year from a roster construction perspective.

In the past we've complained about complete inattention the the OL or WR rooms. Here we're fucking quibbling about 1 CB2/CB3 depending on how you think about it.

Call me out if later in the year I blame anything this season on EDC

Except there's a clear line of demarcation. At WR, you can effectively have multiple injuries to good players and still be in a position to win, because you'll still have at least two quality pass catchers left. Lets say OBJ and Flowers both suffer long term injuries. I still have Bateman and Andrews, which basically means I still at least have better pass catchers than I had for most of last season.

If I lose my top two corners, what do I have? Lets say we sign MP and RYS (which I don't think we'll sign both by the way). MP and Humphrey both get hurt long term. Who do we have? What teams are we beating with RYS at CB1?

I'm not even suggesting its realistic to think we need 6 deep at the position. But its comical how there are literally people who spent all offseason advocating that we are 4, 5, 6, deep at WR, paying no attention to anything else. And now, post-draft, people are realizing "well fuck, we're thin in some areas".

End of day, we traded Corner quality/depth for WR quality/depth. Any way you break it down, that's what we arrived at. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but there is literally no historical info at all that says that fans will just accept that as "what we wanted" if things don't go well in that regard.

 

[UPennChem]

I've been quite happy with how EDC has handled the offseason, as nerve wracking as it was. From the coaching changes to the the signing of Lamar, the draft and the undrafted free agent signings. I feel like he did a great job with what he's had to work with and deal with. I'm just not comfortable with the current CB roster but I think we"ll see an addition or 2. Will that result in a vast improvement? I don't know. I would like to see MP back for his passion and leadership, especially now with Calais gone. But you can't pay a guy just for that.

You should feel something about the CB room because effectively it's the group that needs the most help. The beauty though, is it needs a single average/slightly above average player.

And as Jeff Z has told us repeatedly, that player is coming extremely soon

 

[UPennChem]

Except there's a clear line of demarcation. At WR, you can effectively have multiple injuries to good players and still be in a position to win, because you'll still have at least two quality pass catchers left. Lets say OBJ and Flowers both suffer long term injuries. I still have Bateman and Andrews, which basically means I still at least have better pass catchers than I had for most of last season.

If I lose my top two corners, what do I have? Lets say we sign MP and RYS (which I don't think we'll sign both by the way). MP and Humphrey both get hurt long term. Who do we have? What teams are we beating with RYS at CB1?

I'm not even suggesting its realistic to think we need 6 deep at the position. But its comical how there are literally people who spent all offseason advocating that we are 4, 5, 6, deep at WR, paying no attention to anything else. And now, post-draft, people are realizing "well fuck, we're thin in some areas".

End of day, we traded Corner quality/depth for WR quality/depth. Any way you break it down, that's what we arrived at. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but there is literally no historical info at all that says that fans will just accept that as "what we wanted" if things don't go well in that regard.

Ok but again, and I'm literally taking a play out of your book which is so funny, if your top 2 CBs suffer long term injuries, it's likely the case no matter who you are your defense and therefore team are going to suffer for it.

But even still, if Marlon and MP go down, or Marlon and Hamilton go down, you still already have depth! Pepe and ardarius exist for the slot. Stephens, JAD, KBK, and Mullen exist for the outside.

It's kinda ridiculous to say that's a neglected position like how the OL and WR rooms have been in the past. And also if your tip 2 CBs go down, EDC didn't go out there a break their legs lmfao. Football happens.

And that's why, when you look at 2021 people default (and rightfully so) to the injuries over EDC because they were extraordinarily bad.

 

[rossihunter2]

You should feel something about the CB room because effectively it's the group that needs the most help. The beauty though, is it needs a single average/slightly above average player.

And as Jeff Z has told us repeatedly, that player is coming extremely soon

And the present DB scheme is much less reliant on putting CBs on islands in tough situations…

With wink we needed good CB play for that scheme to work, we don’t necessarily need that hardcore man coverage with no help type CB play very often with MM at DC…

 

[UPennChem]

And the present DB scheme is much less reliant on putting CBs on islands in tough situations…

With wink we needed good CB play for that scheme to work, we don’t necessarily need that hardcore man coverage with no help type CB play very often with MM at DC…

THANK YOU. People are popping off in here and I have no idea why

 

[gtalk12]

in EDC we trust

 

[Willbacker]

in EDC we trust

No that was "In Ozzie we trust". Now it's "IN EDC we believe".

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I mean... are Peters or RYS special players at this stage? The whole offseason we've been saying how we wanted upgrades over Peters, and now we're saying we're content to have him back as a CB2?
If Marlon gets hurt, is adding Peters and RYS enough?

I would bite my own dick off if I ever saw a consensus on the boards that fans were actually to blame for decisions that went wrong. There is zero accountability among the fanbase. And I can't even say that's a Ravens problem.

I never once have asked for an upgrade over peters, just that peters returns as cb2 or below. Also don’t feel that a “special” player is needed there, I’ve always felt like peters was good enough to be our cb2 and the bigger issue was making sure cb3/4/5 aren’t complete liabilities

 

[redrum52]

But monken’s also adaptable - he’ll adjust to who his best players are

I love it when you talk dirty

 

[gtalk12]

I keep going back to health and development on the defense. We have a few young guys there that can hopefully take the next step. Though CB is clearly a concern, I am looking at the D-line to be able to create even more pressure than last year. Ojabo and Oweh are going to be the key to that. I fully expect Houston to be signed to us for at least one more year.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Ok but again, and I'm literally taking a play out of your book which is so funny, if your top 2 CBs suffer long term injuries, it's likely the case no matter who you are your defense and therefore team are going to suffer for it.

But even still, if Marlon and MP go down, or Marlon and Hamilton go down, you still already have depth! Pepe and ardarius exist for the slot. Stephens, JAD, KBK, and Mullen exist for the outside.

It's kinda ridiculous to say that's a neglected position like how the OL and WR rooms have been in the past. And also if your tip 2 CBs go down, EDC didn't go out there a break their legs lmfao. Football happens.

And that's why, when you look at 2021 people default (and rightfully so) to the injuries over EDC because they were extraordinarily bad.

Right, but is that depth just in terms of draft picks or depth just in terms of players who've actually played before?
Like take the Oline comparison. We had depth on the Oline. It just wasn't good depth. What's difference between Tyre Phillips and Pepe Williams in terms of depth? Are we certain that Pepe is a quality depth piece? What's difference between Cleveland and JAD or any of the rookies we brought in for depth? Are they on the roster? Sure, which I guess makes them depth.

In my opinion, what you have on the roster currently at Corner pretty much mirrors the "depth" you had on the Oline in '21 and WR in '22. It's obviously May, and that could change, but I've also seen the list of FA Corners available, and its not overly impressive at all. I'd be much more inclined to attack it via trade, but that takes two to tango and it takes draft picks.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I never once have asked for an upgrade over peters, just that peters returns as cb2 or below. Also don’t feel that a “special” player is needed there, I’ve always felt like peters was good enough to be our cb2 and the bigger issue was making sure cb3/4/5 aren’t complete liabilities

Right but, per usual, you are one injury away from Humphrey being Bateman and Peters being Duvernay. Which is to say... Peters is your CB1, and the CB 3/4/5 are now elevated into more action, possibly rotating more, and thus, will potentially either shine or get exposed more.

The ONLY saving grace I have for the group currently is (which they may do anyway) Hamilton's ability to play the Nickel. They can make Stone a more full-time player.

 

[UPennChem]

Right, but is that depth just in terms of draft picks or depth just in terms of players who've actually played before?
Like take the Oline comparison. We had depth on the Oline. It just wasn't good depth. What's difference between Tyre Phillips and Pepe Williams in terms of depth? Are we certain that Pepe is a quality depth piece? What's difference between Cleveland and JAD or any of the rookies we brought in for depth? Are they on the roster? Sure, which I guess makes them depth.

In my opinion, what you have on the roster currently at Corner pretty much mirrors the "depth" you had on the Oline in '21 and WR in '22. It's obviously May, and that could change, but I've also seen the list of FA Corners available, and its not overly impressive at all. I'd be much more inclined to attack it via trade, but that takes two to tango and it takes draft picks.

I can understand what you're saying. And I could simply turn out to be wrong on this next statement. Time will tell. But my expectation is that the depth a CB we will have this year following adding MP/RYS will be better than the OL depth 20 or 21, but it won't be amazing. Ultimately meaning if we suffer a big injurg there we will absolutely feel it, but I don't think it will kill us if there aren't other really substantial injuries compounding with it.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I can understand what you're saying. And I could simply turn out to be wrong on this next statement. Time will tell. But my expectation is that the depth a CB we will have this year following adding MP/RYS will be better than the OL depth 20 or 21, but it won't be amazing. Ultimately meaning if we suffer a big injurg there we will absolutely feel it, but I don't think it will kill us if there aren't other really substantial injuries compounding with it.

It will vary based on players, obviously, but in general, I would expect a day 2 or even day 3 pick on the Oline to contribute faster than I would expect the same pick at Corner. I think the learning curve in the league is just that much steeper at that position group.

So for me, I don't expect much out of JAD or Kelly in '23. Kelly is a 5th round rookie, who I think ideally is a gameday inactive most weeks, and JAD just didn't play much at all last year.

Maybe I have lower expectations than others, but its a pretty small list, league wide, of year 1 contributors from day 3 Corners. Many of them, if they have blossom, are like year 3/4 type guys.

So today, you've basically got a Marlon/Stephens/Pepe combo in my eyes, with the caveat that Hamilton could play more SCB than true Safety potentially. They'll add veterans to the group. Just remains to be seen what that looks like.

If that group stays healthy, I won't have many concerns. If there's an injury or two, it can become problematic in a hurry. If I had an injury or two to WR, Oline, or even ILB, I'm far less concerned.

 

[UPennChem]

It will vary based on players, obviously, but in general, I would expect a day 2 or even day 3 pick on the Oline to contribute faster than I would expect the same pick at Corner. I think the learning curve in the league is just that much steeper at that position group.

So for me, I don't expect much out of JAD or Kelly in '23. Kelly is a 5th round rookie, who I think ideally is a gameday inactive most weeks, and JAD just didn't play much at all last year.

Maybe I have lower expectations than others, but its a pretty small list, league wide, of year 1 contributors from day 3 Corners. Many of them, if they have blossom, are like year 3/4 type guys.

So today, you've basically got a Marlon/Stephens/Pepe combo in my eyes, with the caveat that Hamilton could play more SCB than true Safety potentially. They'll add veterans to the group. Just remains to be seen what that looks like.

If that group stays healthy, I won't have many concerns. If there's an injury or two, it can become problematic in a hurry. If I had an injury or two to WR, Oline, or even ILB, I'm far less concerned.

I don't disagree that the depth is worse there. It is. That being said if you can trot out Marlon, MP/RYS and Hamilton with Stephens and Pepe primarily in the wings that's pretty decent.

I don't want to have to see JAD or KBK.

But it's basically impossible to be able to sustain 2 major injuries at every position group and be fine. Our basically one group that can't is CB/S. But they can probably weather 1 each.

Praying for health

 

[Dom McRaven]

Except there's a clear line of demarcation. At WR, you can effectively have multiple injuries to good players and still be in a position to win, because you'll still have at least two quality pass catchers left. Lets say OBJ and Flowers both suffer long term injuries. I still have Bateman and Andrews, which basically means I still at least have better pass catchers than I had for most of last season.

If I lose my top two corners, what do I have? Lets say we sign MP and RYS (which I don't think we'll sign both by the way). MP and Humphrey both get hurt long term. Who do we have? What teams are we beating with RYS at CB1?

I'm not even suggesting its realistic to think we need 6 deep at the position. But its comical how there are literally people who spent all offseason advocating that we are 4, 5, 6, deep at WR, paying no attention to anything else. And now, post-draft, people are realizing "well fuck, we're thin in some areas".

End of day, we traded Corner quality/depth for WR quality/depth. Any way you break it down, that's what we arrived at. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but there is literally no historical info at all that says that fans will just accept that as "what we wanted" if things don't go well in that regard.

A few moments after we drafted Zay, I knew we were gonna play the game of risk when we eventually drafted a CB (no chance in my mind we weren't). Just based on the AFC alone, I'd rather "sacrifice" CB depth for WR depth.

I'll take my chances of having to win games like 34-30 or 30-24. I don't see this defense as elite until our young pass-rushers show us more AND one of Pepe or Stephens take the next step. If the CB room becomes a big issue by the end of the season, I'm sure EDC will address it one way or another.

He did a pretty good job addressing OL in 2022 after what happened in 2021. WR is self-explanatory from this past season to now.

 

[BoredMarine13]

The only one's who are going to do that are the ones who don't think adding MP/RYS (which will happen) is not enough. But there's really not a good argument to be made that that isn't enough.

Stephens has been fine and if he's outside CB3 that's amazing. Slot has so much depth it's crazy. And outside has depth too just not upper echelon depth.

You just project the fanbase as extremely stupid when it's a handful of people that have a certain bias or just don't know what they're talking about.

I bet you 99% board would say post RYS signing, that if the team fails this year its their own damn fault not EDC

I like RYS, but i feel like we’re setting ourselves up for failure and over valuing him and his possible contributions

 

[rmcjacket23]

I like RYS, but i feel like we’re setting ourselves up for failure and over valuing him and his possible contributions

I think we're setting us up for failure by overvaluing pretty much any Corner who's on the FA market right now. Especially one's that haven't played for us.