The Tucker, the Refs and the Fish and Chips

[QtR Nevermore]

I would say 8 drops cost the Pitt game combined with Lamar throwing a pick and snapping it when he should not. None of those are emblematic of a conservative playcalling approach. In fact they are more symptomatic of the opposite.

Of course, but it's also infuriating to give a way series with a quick, but safe, 3 and outs. We were so much better than Pittsburgh on the day that a more aggressive approach mght well have won the game despite all the drops.

 

[rmcjacket23]

By aiming for bigger chunks of yardage.

If you call a very straightforward between the tackles run (of the type that has been gaining 3 yds all day) and follow to with a pass to Zay at the LoS ( a play that hasn't yielded many big gains so far) there's very little margin of error to allow for eg. a missed block (lack of execution). You need both plays to succeed to get to a manageable third down.

With more deep passes you can mess one play up and still gain the necessary yardage to keep your offense on track.

Cool. Deeper passes also require higher degrees of execution from multiple players at the same time. And because they come with a higher risk of failure, it puts your team at a disadvantage on down and distance. Thereby reducing the playbook you have available to you on future downs, and requiring more pressure and execution on those downs.

Deeper passes isn't a good contingency for lack of execution of fundamentals. Especially when that lack of execution involves dropped passes and poor pass protection.

 

[redrum52]

Cool. Deeper passes also require higher degrees of execution from multiple players at the same time. And because they come with a higher risk of failure, it puts your team at a disadvantage on down and distance. Thereby reducing the playbook you have available to you on future downs, and requiring more pressure and execution on those downs.

Deeper passes isn't a good contingency for lack of execution of fundamentals. Especially when that lack of execution involves dropped passes and poor pass protection.

I don't think enough is being made of the OL pass protection.

 

[RavensMania]

I don't think enough is being made of the OL pass protection.

our pass blocking has not been bad at all. The worst one being John Simpson. When Mustipher was playing he was a very good pass blocker also. This past game Zeitler, Stanley, and Moses had their best games and Linderbaum wasn't far off.

 

[Adreme]

Of course, but it's also infuriating to give a way series with a quick, but safe, 3 and outs. We were so much better than Pittsburgh on the day that a more aggressive approach mght well have won the game despite all the drops.

Ignoring the bad snap and turnover, by my count the drops left 4 TDs on the table. So when you add it all up the offensive scheme for that game was setup to put up over 40 points if executed properly. You are not going to score on every possession (otherwise putting up 60-70 would be common place versus an extreme rarity). You also cannot keep throwing deep against that pass rush continuously or things will go very badly. They picked their moments and the players did not execute. Had they executed they would have scored 40 points and that is far from conservative playcalling.

 

[QtR Nevermore]

Ignoring the bad snap and turnover, by my count the drops left 4 TDs on the table. So when you add it all up the offensive scheme for that game was setup to put up over 40 points if executed properly. You are not going to score on every possession (otherwise putting up 60-70 would be common place versus an extreme rarity). You also cannot keep throwing deep against that pass rush continuously or things will go very badly. They picked their moments and the players did not execute. Had they executed they would have scored 40 points and that is far from conservative playcalling.

There's lots of truth in what you're saying but I feel slightly like I've been represented as calling for deep bombs every snap.

I just want them to include more passes of 10+ yards through the air into the mix and to keep the pass as an option throughout the game to keep defenses honest.

 

[UPennChem]

There's lots of truth in what you're saying but I feel slightly like I've been represented as calling for deep bombs every snap.

I just want them to include more passes of 10+ yards through the air into the mix and to keep the pass as an option throughout the game to keep defenses honest.

We have plenty of passes of 10+ yards

 

[QtR Nevermore]

Cool. Deeper passes also require higher degrees of execution from multiple players at the same time. And because they come with a higher risk of failure, it puts your team at a disadvantage on down and distance. Thereby reducing the playbook you have available to you on future downs, and requiring more pressure and execution on those downs.

Deeper passes isn't a good contingency for lack of execution of fundamentals. Especially when that lack of execution involves dropped passes and poor pass protection.

That's all generally true, but for the Ravens right now, I'm not sure that a pass of 10+ yards is more difficult or has a higher failure rate than trying to execute a successful running play when the defense is expecting it.

With the Ravens established tendancy to run when ahead, passes beyond the sticks might actually be easier plays to execute in certain circumstances.

 

[QtR Nevermore]

We have plenty of passes of 10+ yards

Lamar's 19th in the NFL in 10+ yard passes, so it's not bad. I'd like it higher because he's a really good Qb with the best weapons he's ever had but OK.

 

[UPennChem]

Lamar's 19th in the NFL in 10+ yard passes, so it's not bad. I'd like it higher because he's a really good Qb with the best weapons he's ever had but OK.

Yeah drops hurt that and there could be more but I also saw Lamar was number 1 in accuracy on 10+ yard attempts.

 

[QtR Nevermore]

Yeah drops hurt that and there could be more but I also saw Lamar was number 1 in accuracy on 10+ yard attempts.

All the more reason to do so more often.

 

[rmcjacket23]

That's all generally true, but for the Ravens right now, I'm not sure that a pass of 10+ yards is more difficult or has a higher failure rate than trying to execute a successful running play when the defense is expecting it.

With the Ravens established tendancy to run when ahead, passes beyond the sticks might actually be easier plays to execute in certain circumstances.

Or you can do passes in the 4,5,6 yard range, which is just an extension of the run game. If you're ineffective at running the ball, you don't have to throw the ball 10+ yards down the field every team in order to compensate for it.

Also doing things like utilizing RBs in the passing game (with check-downs on longer routes) is an option.

 

[Tank]

Of course, but it's also infuriating to give a way series with a quick, but safe, 3 and outs. We were so much better than Pittsburgh on the day that a more aggressive approach mght well have won the game despite all the drops.

Without the 2 turnovers late in the game we win, despite the drops

 

[Jacquouille]

I don't know if it's been mentionned much, so I just wanted to emphasize how much a bitch jet lag can be. I studied 6 months in Cambodia, time difference was similar to what the team went through.

When I got there I couldn't get out of bed for a week, I tried as much as I could to get moving and 10 minutes out of my room I couldn't open my eyes.
I'm glad the team traveled early and was able to avoid injuries on that field and with the fatigue.

 

[airconteka]

Without the 2 turnovers late in the game we win, despite the drops

Without the drops the turnovers dont happen

 

[Tank]

Without the drops the turnovers dont happen

That could be true, who knows. So we win either way without a different approach which was the point.

 

[Truth]

Well sure but why they are not getting opportunities is the question. They’ve both missed games Bate 1, OBJ 2, so there’s that, but does that explain the disparity? Is it Monken? Is it Lamar’s lack of confidence in them? Is it Harbaugh’s conservative game plans? As for OBJ I had zero expectations, especially after being out in 2022, but hope that he would produce. Same with Bateman. He hasn’t been able to stay on the field (healthy), and when he’s there he has not shown very much. I’m just hoping that as the year and this offense progresses, both will get their opportunities, and both will produce. We’re only 6 games in and on top of our division. I’m good with that for now.

It's a question we likely couldn't answer without being in the building. Centered on production, the point becomes a loop. They're not targeted because they're not producing, they're not producing because they're not targeted. Until they've seen volume, how they'd fare with any considerable targets will also remain unanswered and therefore open to debate. Conscious conversation has objectively been an issue. Our production drops in every quarter, with our numbers being abysmal in the 4th. At 3.8 yards per play, we're 2nd to last in the league. Conversely, as it stands, Lamar Jackson is the highest graded intermediate passer in the NFL, and the 5th highest graded deep passer, with 0 turnover worthy throws in each quadrant (I hope I'm not jinxing him here). So regardless of the personnel used, our choice to lean away from a successful facet in favor of a largely ineffective approach has arguably played a part in our disappointingly close wins and frustrating losses. I'm personally content with the 4-2 record, but we've essentially given the other 2 games away. If we remain as stagnant offensively, that number could unfortunately grow. I'm not clamoring for gun-slinging with leads, but there has to at least be a happy medium that helps us seal those leads away.

 

[Willbacker]

Monken did shift to quick screens on 1st down to Flowers in the 4th qtr after it seemed like calling Edwards for them 1 yd pops was getting nowhere so he did some change up but it would be nice to bring some other forms of not only passing but running when we're trying to close out games besides the obvious up the gut plays. Do those on 2nd down but there is a total lack of 1st down calls. If you're trying to run clock maybe try a pitch but I would like to see more timing passes on short hooks and crossing patterns with a checkdown as a last option just to keep teams guessing. Just can't keep calling Gus up the middle on 1st downs and watching him get stacked especially if they're showing an 8 man front.

This is my personal preference but I would to see less boot option and more straight dropbacks. Lot of times that middle opens up for Lamar instead of cornering him to one side of the field.