The Well-Mannered Politics Thread

[29BmoreBird22]

Yup, and the middle class wouldn't pay a dime for it.

I have no idea how this nation is so fucked up that education is a partisan issue, but here we are. Who the hell wants nice schools and an educated workforce?

Even past that, an issue I'm currently facing is that jobs are so unwilling to take a chance on my generation due to the stigma surrounding my generation.

I got a biochemistry degree from Virginia Tech in two years and worked in a chemistry research lab for 6 months. Can't find a job in my area now because I don't have two+ years of experience. Can't demonstrate my experience and knowledge because no one wants to take a chance even though I'm fully capable and very easily moldable because I come in with zero habits or ideas of the "right way" to do things.

People view millennials and just think we're entitled, want everything handed to us, and want to do no work.

Nah, I really want to work in a research lab and make a difference. I just need a damn chance.

Just having a bachelor's means very little today. That'll get you $10 an hour at a fast food place. You almost need a master's, but to even get a master's, I need experience. To get experience, I need a job. To get a job, I need several years of experience that I couldn't reasonably be expected to have.

 

[Dom McRaven]

Even past that, an issue I'm currently facing is that jobs are so unwilling to take a chance on my generation due to the stigma surrounding my generation.

I got a biochemistry degree from Virginia Tech in two years and worked in a chemistry research lab for 6 months. Can't find a job in my area now because I don't have two+ years of experience. Can't demonstrate my experience and knowledge because no one wants to take a chance even though I'm fully capable and very easily moldable because I come in with zero habits or ideas of the "right way" to do things.

People view millennials and just think we're entitled, want everything handed to us, and want to do no work.

Nah, I really want to work in a research lab and make a difference. I just need a damn chance.

Just having a bachelor's means very little today. That'll get you $10 an hour at a fast food place. You almost need a master's, but to even get a master's, I need experience. To get experience, I need a job. To get a job, I need several years of experience that I couldn't reasonably be expected to have.

As an accounting major, I couldn't agree any more. It was very aggravating finding a job when the majority of jobs needed multiple years of experience.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

As an accounting major, I couldn't agree any more. It was very aggravating finding a job when the majority of jobs need multiple years of experience.

And I can't volunteer for an unpaid internship or an internship that pays next to nothing. I am 100% independent and pay all my bills. I do have to support myself.

 

[The Raven]

Even past that, an issue I'm currently facing is that jobs are so unwilling to take a chance on my generation due to the stigma surrounding my generation.

I got a biochemistry degree from Virginia Tech in two years and worked in a chemistry research lab for 6 months. Can't find a job in my area now because I don't have two+ years of experience. Can't demonstrate my experience and knowledge because no one wants to take a chance even though I'm fully capable and very easily moldable because I come in with zero habits or ideas of the "right way" to do things.

People view millennials and just think we're entitled, want everything handed to us, and want to do no work.

Nah, I really want to work in a research lab and make a difference. I just need a damn chance.

Just having a bachelor's means very little today. That'll get you $10 an hour at a fast food place. You almost need a master's, but to even get a master's, I need experience. To get experience, I need a job. To get a job, I need several years of experience that I couldn't reasonably be expected to have.

The notion that we're entitled is uninformed at best and moronic at worse.

I went through three unpaid internships, ran a student org for two years, worked 80 hours a week during summers, and got a 3.9 GPA in my major just to get a measly journalism job paying less than poverty wages with no potential for upward mobility. We aren't entitled. We're starved of opportunity.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

The notion that we're entitled is uninformed at best and moronic at worse.

I went through three unpaid internships, ran a student org for two years, worked 80 hours a week during summers, and got a 3.9 GPA in my major just to get a measly journalism job paying less than poverty wages with no potential for upward mobility. We aren't entitled. We're starved of opportunity.

I wish I could volunteer for an unpaid internship. I have to work over 40 hours a week just to afford my mortgage and it starves me of any time that an internship would want me to come in. Past that, though, I don't even know where I'd find one. I unfortunately live around four colleges within an hour of me, so any jobs just get snatched up by college students who can afford to volunteer and get credits for it.

The thing is, I know damn well that I'm qualified to do an entry level research position and if I'm unfamiliar with a piece of equipment, just teach me. I'll learn in a week. It's not a big deal to try to teach me.

 

[The Raven]

I wish I could volunteer for an unpaid internship. I have to work over 40 hours a week just to afford my mortgage and it starves me of any time that an internship would want me to come in. Past that, though, I don't even know where I'd find one. I unfortunately live around four colleges within an hour of me, so any jobs just get snatched up by college students who can afford to volunteer and get credits for it.

The thing is, I know damn well that I'm qualified to do an entry level research position and if I'm unfamiliar with a piece of equipment, just teach me. I'll learn in a week. It's not a big deal to try to teach me.

It's bullshit. That's the only way to describe it. That sucks. I hope something works out soon. It's unbelievable that you're having a hard time with a STEM degree.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

It's bullshit. That's the only way to describe it. That sucks. I hope something works out soon. It's unbelievable that you're having a hard time with a STEM degree.

I got a job at VT a year after I graduated and when I moved, I moved to an area with very little in the way of research labs and the surrounding cities have colleges that sap up the jobs.

And even when I get an interview, it's, "Do you have experience doing this in the real world?" Well, no, but I did it several times in a classroom setting and am very willing to learn if you feel my skills need polishing. "NEXT!"

 

[cobrajet]

What you're telling me is that you don't want to live in a more skilled, smarter country with a workforce that attracts new businesses. Good luck with that.

The cost of higher ed has increased more than doubled the cost of inflation since the 90s. In the 1960s, you could put yourself through college working 10 hours a week at minimum wage. Now, you'd have to work 44 hours a week at minimum wage just to pay for college, let alone rent. That's not reasonable.

Student loan debt is so exceedingly high it's actually draining the economy. Most of us can't afford homes because of student loans. And past that, we don't have disposable income that drives the rest of the economy.

Anything else? Do you like living in a world that's not as smart and skilled as it could be? God forbid we invest in the future.

The skills gap is killing job creation. Any take on that? Probably not, right? Do you not see that a lack of skilled workers is hurting our economy? Not your problem, right?

Yet again, @K-Dog shows up with a passive aggressive reaction and no substance.

It would be way too incredibly draining on the taxpayers and drive our debt up even incredibly higher. It also does not seem fair to the millions of citizens who already struggled to pay for their college expenses, especially if they had to work and go to school at the same time, like I did. So we had to pay for our own schooling and now pay for everyone else’s too?
A few questions:
Would these be State schools only or do we have to pay for Ivy League Colleges?
Would we only be paying for degrees in limited fields like engineering or are we paying for the arts also?
Would we pay for students to attend out of state schools in which students would need living expenses and housing?
Would students have to score a certain level on their SAT’s in order for them to qualify?
Would students that failed a course because they did not study or partied too much have to pay the money back?
To save money do we send them to community college to get their AA Degree before we send them on to get their Bachelors Degree?
Do we pay for a Master’s Degree or Doctorate Degree also?
Do we forgive all the massive student loan debt out there?
You want the Republicans to get on board with this, but are you saying to pay for this they have to cut things that are important to them like military spending or would the Democrats be willing to put their money where their mouth is with this liberal idea and take the hits to their programs to implement this?

 

[cobrajet]

You say that like everybody's desire is to become a cop in Baltimore.

Not really, because it costs a lot of money for all the training if someone’s heart is not in it. It pays the bills though, has decent benefits, and the job security is nice. The hours and working conditions can be a little rough sometimes.

 

[cobrajet]

I wish I could volunteer for an unpaid internship. I have to work over 40 hours a week just to afford my mortgage and it starves me of any time that an internship would want me to come in. Past that, though, I don't even know where I'd find one. I unfortunately live around four colleges within an hour of me, so any jobs just get snatched up by college students who can afford to volunteer and get credits for it.

The thing is, I know damn well that I'm qualified to do an entry level research position and if I'm unfamiliar with a piece of equipment, just teach me. I'll learn in a week. It's not a big deal to try to teach me.

Where you caught up in that housing bubble? I took a hit on that one myself.

 

[Somerset Ravens]

Even past that, an issue I'm currently facing is that jobs are so unwilling to take a chance on my generation due to the stigma surrounding my generation.

I got a biochemistry degree from Virginia Tech in two years and worked in a chemistry research lab for 6 months. Can't find a job in my area now because I don't have two+ years of experience. Can't demonstrate my experience and knowledge because no one wants to take a chance even though I'm fully capable and very easily moldable because I come in with zero habits or ideas of the "right way" to do things.

People view millennials and just think we're entitled, want everything handed to us, and want to do no work.

Nah, I really want to work in a research lab and make a difference. I just need a damn chance.

Just having a bachelor's means very little today. That'll get you $10 an hour at a fast food place. You almost need a master's, but to even get a master's, I need experience. To get experience, I need a job. To get a job, I need several years of experience that I couldn't reasonably be expected to have.

Being one the older posters on this board I do not see millennials as feeling entitled or wanting everything handed to them. Certainly there are some millennials like that as there are with every generation.

The problem I see millennials facing is a tight job market. If you are an employer with a job to fill and you have two applicants willing to work for the same wage, have the same educational background but one has experience in the field.
Who do you choose? Sadly the applicant with no experience loses out. I feel sorry for the millennials.

 

[Inqui]

What you're telling me is that you don't want to live in a more skilled, smarter country with a workforce that attracts new businesses. Good luck with that.

The cost of higher ed has increased more than doubled the cost of inflation since the 90s. In the 1960s, you could put yourself through college working 10 hours a week at minimum wage. Now, you'd have to work 44 hours a week at minimum wage just to pay for college, let alone rent. That's not reasonable.

Student loan debt is so exceedingly high it's actually draining the economy. Most of us can't afford homes because of student loans. And past that, we don't have disposable income that drives the rest of the economy.

Anything else? Do you like living in a world that's not as smart and skilled as it could be? God forbid we invest in the future.

The skills gap is killing job creation. Any take on that? Probably not, right? Do you not see that a lack of skilled workers is hurting our economy? Not your problem, right?

Yet again, @K-Dog shows up with a passive aggressive reaction and no substance.

The student debt issue is legitimately going to hamper growth for a generation, and not just because of people paying off debt ad infinitum. Debt shocks traumatise an economy because they put people off going into debt down the line where they otherwise would have been fine with borrowing - which wrecks spending and growth levels in the long run. That's why Japan's had bugger all growth for decades and it'll take a new mindset from a new generation to change that.

As for free education, over here (as I believe is the case in most countries) the government handles the student loans, and they're interest-free as long as you stay in the country. Instead of having a separate mortgage-level debt owed, my taxes are a shade higher until that balance gets squared. That does a better job of internalising the costs and benefits of higher education, as well as improving the prospects for social mobility (since the government doesn't care about your credit rating or any arbitrary metrics such as what school you went to).

Since the question of what gets cut has already been asked, let me get the ball rolling with something I brought up about 20 pages back. The NSA's budget as of 2013 was about $52.6 billion, which looks rather bloated against its German counterpart's $981 million (converted to US dollars). In 2014 Germany asked the head of CIA activities in Germany to leave the country (something asked only of "pariah states like North Korea and Iran") because the agency got caught spying on the German government. The CIA's local contact only got caught when he sent the same stuff to the Russian embassy (the German agency had previously cleared all contact with US agencies because they were trusted allies, but contacts with Russia are all monitored as a manner of due course). There are 17 US intelligence agencies (said German agency is its only one) and they have so much money they literally don't know what to do with it.

 

[The Raven]

It would be way too incredibly draining on the taxpayers and drive our debt up even incredibly higher. It also does not seem fair to the millions of citizens who already struggled to pay for their college expenses, especially if they had to work and go to school at the same time, like I did. So we had to pay for our own schooling and now pay for everyone else’s too?
A few questions:
Would these be State schools only or do we have to pay for Ivy League Colleges?
Would we only be paying for degrees in limited fields like engineering or are we paying for the arts also?
Would we pay for students to attend out of state schools in which students would need living expenses and housing?
Would students have to score a certain level on their SAT’s in order for them to qualify?
Would students that failed a course because they did not study or partied too much have to pay the money back?
To save money do we send them to community college to get their AA Degree before we send them on to get their Bachelors Degree?
Do we pay for a Master’s Degree or Doctorate Degree also?
Do we forgive all the massive student loan debt out there?
You want the Republicans to get on board with this, but are you saying to pay for this they have to cut things that are important to them like military spending or would the Democrats be willing to put their money where their mouth is with this liberal idea and take the hits to their programs to implement this?

Dude, we wouldn't have to cut shit to make it happen. Senator Sanders proposed a new tax on Wall Street speculation to pay for it. Rich pay for it. It would not be draining.

It wouldn't be fair? By that logic, we shouldn't have smart phones, TV, or free high school, for that matter. Fuck you mean not fair? My dad didn't have a smart phone at my age, so I guess we shouldn't have smart phones now because it's not fair? High school wasn't free for all way back in the day. Guess this isn't fair to them. No. That's not how society works. Society moves forward and makes progress.

It would, of course, only be public schools.

Pay for all degrees. Discriminating would require more bureaucracy, and arts degrees CAN lead to viable careers outside the arts. Not everyone has the math skills to be an engineer. Should they not have a chance to find a career without math skills?

The "free college" idea I believe only covers cost of tuition, not fees (room and board), so no, I guess we wouldn't necessarily be paying for housing.

I think yes, students should have to score adequately on the SAT to qualify/

I think colleges already do a decent job at handling failing students and the method should probably continue.

I'm not sure if we'd actually be saving money by sending them to community college first. If we did that, we'd like need to hire more teachers, thereby driving up the cost.

Advanced degrees aren't yet what's halting job creation, so let's not make it free, but let's put a dent in it. Make a Master's cost what a Bachelor's does now, Ph. D what a Master's costs.

And again, the only thing Republicans would have to sacrifice is allowing a tax on the rich, which we all know goes against the very fabric of their being. They wouldn't have to cut a thing. They'd just have to tax Wall Street and the top 1 percent just a little bit more to make it happen without any cuts at all.

 

[The Raven]

The student debt issue is legitimately going to hamper growth for a generation, and not just because of people paying off debt ad infinitum. Debt shocks traumatise an economy because they put people off going into debt down the line where they otherwise would have been fine with borrowing - which wrecks spending and growth levels in the long run. That's why Japan's had bugger all growth for decades and it'll take a new mindset from a new generation to change that.

As for free education, over here (as I believe is the case in most countries) the government handles the student loans, and they're interest-free as long as you stay in the country. Instead of having a separate mortgage-level debt owed, my taxes are a shade higher until that balance gets squared. That does a better job of internalising the costs and benefits of higher education, as well as improving the prospects for social mobility (since the government doesn't care about your credit rating or any arbitrary metrics such as what school you went to).

Since the question of what gets cut has already been asked, let me get the ball rolling with something I brought up about 20 pages back. The NSA's budget as of 2013 was about $52.6 billion, which looks rather bloated against its German counterpart's $981 million (converted to US dollars). In 2014 Germany asked the head of CIA activities in Germany to leave the country (something asked only of "pariah states like North Korea and Iran") because the agency got caught spying on the German government. The CIA's local contact only got caught when he sent the same stuff to the Russian embassy (the German agency had previously cleared all contact with US agencies because they were trusted allies, but contacts with Russia are all monitored as a manner of due course). There are 17 US intelligence agencies (said German agency is its only one) and they have so much money they literally don't know what to do with it.

There's definitely room to cut but not from the NSA, CIA, or anything to do with defense or law enforcement. That's the new third rail of American politics. Touch it, you die.

 

[cobrajet]

Dude, we wouldn't have to cut shit to make it happen. Senator Sanders proposed a new tax on Wall Street speculation to pay for it. Rich pay for it. It would not be draining.

It wouldn't be fair? By that logic, we shouldn't have smart phones, TV, or free high school, for that matter. Fuck you mean not fair? My dad didn't have a smart phone at my age, so I guess we shouldn't have smart phones now because it's not fair? High school wasn't free for all way back in the day. Guess this isn't fair to them. No. That's not how society works. Society moves forward and makes progress.

It would, of course, only be public schools.

Pay for all degrees. Discriminating would require more bureaucracy, and arts degrees CAN lead to viable careers outside the arts. Not everyone has the math skills to be an engineer. Should they not have a chance to find a career without math skills?

The "free college" idea I believe only covers cost of tuition, not fees (room and board), so no, I guess we wouldn't necessarily be paying for housing.

I think yes, students should have to score adequately on the SAT to qualify/

I think colleges already do a decent job at handling failing students and the method should probably continue.

I'm not sure if we'd actually be saving money by sending them to community college first. If we did that, we'd like need to hire more teachers, thereby driving up the cost.

Advanced degrees aren't yet what's halting job creation, so let's not make it free, but let's put a dent in it. Make a Master's cost what a Bachelor's does now, Ph. D what a Master's costs.

And again, the only thing Republicans would have to sacrifice is allowing a tax on the rich, which we all know goes against the very fabric of their being. They wouldn't have to cut a thing. They'd just have to tax Wall Street and the top 1 percent just a little bit more to make it happen without any cuts at all.

I wouldn’t mind the rich paying a little more and I would be willing to compromise on a few of your proposals. I can tell you more about what points I like later, have to roll to work.

 

[Somerset Ravens]

There's definitely room to cut but not from the NSA, CIA, or anything to do with defense or law enforcement. That's the new third rail of American politics. Touch it, you die.

Where would you propose making those cuts? Wouldn't be hard to come up with substantial funding for education without hurting the entitlement programs? What would be the cost of paying for free community college? I realize there will be benefit from that type of program but what is the cost now?

 

[Willbacker]

Dude, we wouldn't have to cut shit to make it happen. Senator Sanders proposed a new tax on Wall Street speculation to pay for it. Rich pay for it. It would not be draining.

It wouldn't be fair? By that logic, we shouldn't have smart phones, TV, or free high school, for that matter. Fuck you mean not fair? My dad didn't have a smart phone at my age, so I guess we shouldn't have smart phones now because it's not fair? High school wasn't free for all way back in the day. Guess this isn't fair to them. No. That's not how society works. Society moves forward and makes progress.

It would, of course, only be public schools.

Pay for all degrees. Discriminating would require more bureaucracy, and arts degrees CAN lead to viable careers outside the arts. Not everyone has the math skills to be an engineer. Should they not have a chance to find a career without math skills?

The "free college" idea I believe only covers cost of tuition, not fees (room and board), so no, I guess we wouldn't necessarily be paying for housing.

I think yes, students should have to score adequately on the SAT to qualify/

I think colleges already do a decent job at handling failing students and the method should probably continue.

I'm not sure if we'd actually be saving money by sending them to community college first. If we did that, we'd like need to hire more teachers, thereby driving up the cost.

Advanced degrees aren't yet what's halting job creation, so let's not make it free, but let's put a dent in it. Make a Master's cost what a Bachelor's does now, Ph. D what a Master's costs.

And again, the only thing Republicans would have to sacrifice is allowing a tax on the rich, which we all know goes against the very fabric of their being. They wouldn't have to cut a thing. They'd just have to tax Wall Street and the top 1 percent just a little bit more to make it happen without any cuts at all.

I cant say for sure what the ramifications would be with Wall St but something tells me they'll work around a tax and 401k's will start getting screwed up and again the middle class will carry the brunt of the burden. Anytime you try to tax the wealthy it all rolls down hill mostly in the ways of higher prices on services or goods. As for taxing the 1% that would mean corporations that are already paying high taxes and leaving the country cuz of this so what we'll end up with is a bunch of overeducated unemployed. Not a good plan imo. How come Dems never just want to lower the amount of entitlement programs to pay for all this "free stuff"? Its always taxing somebody.More taxes. More taxes. More taxes. Then we watch the govt blow our money.

Whats also this myth about Republicans always being for the rich. The top richest areas vote democrat. Silicon Valley. Manhattan. New Jersey. All the counties surrounding DC. Hollywood. Long Island. Republicans just want lower taxes in general and yes that includes the rich.

 

[Willbacker]

Even past that, an issue I'm currently facing is that jobs are so unwilling to take a chance on my generation due to the stigma surrounding my generation.

I got a biochemistry degree from Virginia Tech in two years and worked in a chemistry research lab for 6 months. Can't find a job in my area now because I don't have two+ years of experience. Can't demonstrate my experience and knowledge because no one wants to take a chance even though I'm fully capable and very easily moldable because I come in with zero habits or ideas of the "right way" to do things.

People view millennials and just think we're entitled, want everything handed to us, and want to do no work.

Nah, I really want to work in a research lab and make a difference. I just need a damn chance.

Just having a bachelor's means very little today. That'll get you $10 an hour at a fast food place. You almost need a master's, but to even get a master's, I need experience. To get experience, I need a job. To get a job, I need several years of experience that I couldn't reasonably be expected to have.

Just keep throwing resumes out there and you probally got to be willing to move. Sincerely good luck I know its not easy but I didn't find a real good steady job until my late 20's. Before that I bounced around quite a bit.

 

[rossihunter2]

Yup, and the middle class wouldn't pay a dime for it.

I have no idea how this nation is so fucked up that education is a partisan issue, but here we are. Who the hell wants nice schools and an educated workforce?

the fact that education, planned parenthood, healthcare in general are all partisan is crazy - its almost like the rich dont give a shit about the poor and the older generations dont want to share with younger generations

 

[rossihunter2]

Just keep throwing resumes out there and you probally got to be willing to move. Sincerely good luck I know its not easy but I didn't find a real good steady job until my late 20's. Before that I bounced around quite a bit.

difference is our generation cant afford to bounce around in the US because of crippling student debt and in the UK because of a severe housing crisis and student debt