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2018 Secondary

Lost_In_Translation said:
Wow lol. I hate the idea of Bowser going on the edge full time basically lol. He needs more coverage opportunities. He could be our best coverage backer day one and one of the best in the league in a few years.

I mean, I hope Correa succeeds but I think that Bowser would be a hell of a lot better than him.

I only bring this up because I think that even though this secondary is the best secondary we've had in YEARS, lack of pass rush killed our defense last year more than anything. Dean Pees WAS blitzing vs. the Steelers on that final drive(even though several think he wasn't). Sure, lack of secondary depth played a big part, but if we pressure Ben, it's a lot different.
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Well I watched some camp highlights that the ravens site just posted and can confirm bowser is on the strong side currently. And I actually think I was way harsh on his as an edge rusher, he needs work but he's not nearly as far off as I once thought. I watched film of other players facing houstons D And followed him, he's got a lot more tools than I thought and he looks jacked right now, far bigger than he looked at Houston.

Also if he's on the strong side he'll get plenty of coverage snaps, if pees dropped upshaw in coverage he sure as hell will drop bowser. The footage also showed a pick and a deep pass breakup in camp. Also I love how well he covers the flat and he slot area, I wouldn't wanna give him the full Middle zone(Mosley does that really well) and take away what he does best, that man is lethal dropping to the shallow/intermediate on the strong side, it's like having a slot corner with full pass rush potential
 
Lost_In_Translation said:
I'd say a top 5 secondary is where we lie. Jimmy is easily a #1 CB when he is healthy(albeit overrated by some who claim he's top 10 for bias reasons, but he's easily a number one who is good enough to take anyone on). I'd be more confident if Young were here, but something tells me that with Boykin we will be fine. He was the best slot CB in the NFL before injuries. Also a possibility Canaday breaks out, but I am not holding my breath. I think Marlon is ultimately a perfect scheme fit here, and that will benefit us greatly. If we get the Brandon Carr from last year we should be fine depth-wise.

We have three top 15 safeties in the NFL. THREE. Two in the top ten in Weddle and Jefferson. We have a good amount of depth here and that can rival anyone.

The secondary is easily in the best shape it's been in for years. The defenses dominance however will depend moreso on the pass rush. Tim Williams and/or Judon are going to need to break out
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Agreed on all accounts.
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
So what you're saying is Gilmore being lesser to jimmy makes their secondary better than ours? Malcolm butler is not as good as a healthy jimmy smith, stephon Gilmore isn't exactly a model of consistency, and their safety tandem can't even sniff ours. At best they have a #2 corner better than our #2 corner and are inferior everywhere else. If you wanna argue the broncos or giants or Vikings then it'd be hard to argue back, but your argument for the patriots is seriously weak
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Cmon man. Butler is for sure better than jimmy bro. Mcourty and weddle are probably equal. So vikes secondary better than ours but pats not? Lol
 
Lost_In_Translation said:
I'd say a top 5 secondary is where we lie. Jimmy is easily a #1 CB when he is healthy(albeit overrated by some who claim he's top 10 for bias reasons, but he's easily a number one who is good enough to take anyone on). I'd be more confident if Young were here, but something tells me that with Boykin we will be fine. He was the best slot CB in the NFL before injuries. Also a possibility Canaday breaks out, but I am not holding my breath. I think Marlon is ultimately a perfect scheme fit here, and that will benefit us greatly. If we get the Brandon Carr from last year we should be fine depth-wise.

We have three top 15 safeties in the NFL. THREE. Two in the top ten in Weddle and Jefferson. We have a good amount of depth here and that can rival anyone.

The secondary is easily in the best shape it's been in for years. The defenses dominance however will depend moreso on the pass rush. Tim Williams and/or Judon are going to need to break out
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Are you counting webb as the other safety? Cause if so thats false
 
Devin McCourtey is a very good player but I'd take Weddle over him with little hesitation every day of the week. Only two safties I'd consider over Weddle are Thomas and Collins tbh.
 
Deebo813 said:
Are you counting webb as the other safety? Cause if so thats false
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How is it false Mr. Schrute? Webb is going to get extensive playing time as the third safety(something we use a good amount mind you), and we will use him for other roles as well. Or are you suggesting that he doesn't count as a member of the secondary? Because if that's what you are suggesting, then I'm sorry to say it, but your claim is totally asinine. Webb, even if he is not used as a safety full time, will almost undoubtedly be seeing time at slot CB, and FS, as well as strong safety at times as well(a lot of people forget that him and Weddle did switch off a fair amount last season). Sure, Jefferson and Weddle are the two starters, but the fact that they have a guy who'd be a damn good starter on 95% of the other teams in the league behind him make the defense even more dangerous. It could allow us to run certain packages(such as Jefferson at ILB on some drives) on some drives without us really missing a beat.

Just. So wrong on so many levels. Stop posting off of your back foot. It's a bad look.

If you're suggesting that Webb isn't a top 15 safety. PFF ranked him there and after a slow start Webb was really good. The defense would not be as good as it was without him there. He was a key asset for us and there's no denying it.
 
SepticeyePoe said:
Butler is only better than Jimmy if Jimmy is on IR.
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Butler makes super bowl winning play: *is national hero*
Smith makes super bowl winning play: *is scrutinized by media. Never ever recognized by anyone. Football gods make him injury prone*

Butler is a damn fine player but one of the most overrated in the league. He got lit up like a torch in the most recent SB.
 
Lost_In_Translation said:
How is it false Mr. Schrute? Webb is going to get extensive playing time as the third safety(something we use a good amount mind you), and we will use him for other roles as well. Or are you suggesting that he doesn't count as a member of the secondary? Because if that's what you are suggesting, then I'm sorry to say it, but your claim is totally asinine. Webb, even if he is not used as a safety full time, will almost undoubtedly be seeing time at slot CB, and FS, as well as strong safety at times as well(a lot of people forget that him and Weddle did switch off a fair amount last season). Sure, Jefferson and Weddle are the two starters, but the fact that they have a guy who'd be a damn good starter on 95% of the other teams in the league behind him make the defense even more dangerous. It could allow us to run certain packages(such as Jefferson at ILB on some drives) on some drives without us really missing a beat.

Just. So wrong on so many levels. Stop posting off of your back foot. It's a bad look.

If you're suggesting that Webb isn't a top 15 safety. PFF ranked him there and after a slow start Webb was really good. The defense would not be as good as it was without him there. He was a key asset for us and there's no denying it.
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Lets be honest here man. Webb is an avg S... he was a key asset for us yes, but so was every other starter on our team. Webb is not a threat whats so ever.. youre correct about the different packaging we can assemble though. And the back foot joke was lame. Why did you post it in middle of your argument? Its funny as a come back, but in the middle of your argument ?
 
Lost_In_Translation said:
Butler makes super bowl winning play: *is national hero*
Smith makes super bowl winning play: *is scrutinized by media. Never ever recognized by anyone. Football gods make him injury prone*

Butler is a damn fine player but one of the most overrated in the league. He got lit up like a torch in the most recent SB.
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You are biased i see. I guess you havent watched butler perform after that SB.
 
Deebo813 said:
Lets be honest here man. Webb is an avg S... he was a key asset for us yes, but so was every other starter on our team. Webb is not a threat whats so ever.. youre correct about the different packaging we can assemble though. And the back foot joke was lame. Why did you post it in middle of your argument? Its funny as a come back, but in the middle of your argument ?
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Hmm..
Every team in the league starts two safeties. Which means that there are 64 starting safeties in the league. Being ranked 15th = above average. Sorry. Webb would be a very good starter on most teams. And I had to add that towards the end because I forgot to include that in the earlier paragraph. My bad. But even then, my point is still valid. He's not a game breaker by any means, but is easily an above average player and a good contributor. We have three top 15 safeties on the roster: That is a fact. PFF proves it and so does his play toward the back end of the season where he played VERY well. Is he an all pro? No. But we have one on the roster already, and one that should make a few pro bowls during his time here in Jefferson. Having Webb be a backup on the team is a luxury. We are beyond lucky to be in this situation. Most teams in the NFL would be happy to have Webb as a STARTER. We have him as a backup. Do the math.

Deebo813 said:
You are biased i see. I guess you havent watched butler perform after that SB.
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Oh.. I have. He's very good. Not nearly as good as people like you make him out to be. One of the most overrated pros in the league and he's still a top 20 CB. I'd say him and a healthy Jimmy are actually equals.
 
Hmm..

Jimmy= Butler. Butler is overrated as they come. Both are very good players but Jimmy is given a ton of responsibility and not much safety help.
Gillmore > Carr. Just stating facts.
Boykin > Any slot CB they've got. Just saying. He was the best slot CB in football at one point.
Marlon is likely a better player than most of the depth the patriots have at corner.
Weddle> McCourtey. Not by much, but Weddle does have a slight edge given his higher football IQ and the fact that he alone made our secondary that much better last year.
Jefferson>>> Chung. Sorry bud. Jefferson is a borderline all pro type talent. Chung is a journeyman.
Webb>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any third safety they've got.

They may have a better cornerback corps. But our secondary as a whole is a lot better.
 
Top 20? Omg lol.. healthy jimmy smith id say is a top 5 cb. That yr we went 8-8 and we played basically all the top wrs in the lg including calvin was the best ive seen by him.
 
Deebo813 said:
Cmon man. Butler is for sure better than jimmy bro. Mcourty and weddle are probably equal. So vikes secondary better than ours but pats not? Lol
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Butler is without question inferior to jimmy smith and you are he only non-pats fan on earth boneheaded enough to disagree. He is as inconsistent as Gilmore and has gotten toasted when facing upper level competition, jimmy on the other raises his play and has absolutely embarrassed every high tier wr except for green and Cooper who he was injured against every time he faced them.

And McCourty is also nowhere near Weddle, get fucking real man, mccourty is only marginally better than Webb was last year at safety, and he's our goddamn backup. you are grossly misinformed
 
Deebo813 said:
Top 20? Omg lol.. healthy jimmy smith id say is a top 5 cb. That yr we went 8-8 and we played basically all the top wrs in the lg including calvin was the best ive seen by him.
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I wouldn't say he's top 5. Top 10-20 is a lot more reasonable. Jimmy is a great cover corner, but given that the NFL has become a passing league. There's a lot more very good cover corners than there used to be. Peterson, Sherman, Peters, Harris, Talib, Norman, Gillmore, Hayward, Verrett, Jenkins, Trufant, Rhodes, Darby, Amerson, Butler, DRC, Breaux(very underrated), Jimmy himself, Bouye played very well last season, are all very good players who are easily #1 corners who can take on just about anyone coverage wise.

You want to say Jimmy is top 15 or even top 10? fine. You can make that argument. But top 5? That's a hard sell.
 
Both Weddle and McCourty are elite safeties. Both unsurprisingly graded out in the Top 4 last season. McCourty graded out as the league's best cover safety last season and he's arguably been one of the best safeties in the league. Likely one of the most versatile as well considering the fact that he spent half a season at corner and half at safety a couple years ago, playing at a high level at both positions. I personally feel that each can be appreciated without devaluing the other.
 
The two most important parts of being a corner are how often you are targetted and what hapoens when you are. Jimmy is top 5 at both of those and thats with our defense asking him to do that without safety help. There are VERY few players who can do what he did so yes he is top5.
 
Truth said:
Both Weddle and McCourty are elite safeties. Both unsurprisingly graded out in the Top 4 last season. McCourty graded out as the league's best cover safety last season and he's arguably been one of the best safeties in the league. Likely one of the most versatile as well considering the fact that he spent half a season at corner and half at safety a couple years ago, playing at a high level at both positions. I personally feel that each can be appreciated without devaluing the other.
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I think you could make an argument for either. Personally I'd rather have Weddle even though McCourty is good himself and better in coverage because Weddle's football IQ is higher. I could see the argument for the other side though. McCourty's versatility make him very valuable.
 
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