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2018 Secondary

Lost_In_Translation said:
I think you could make an argument for either. Personally I'd rather have Weddle even though McCourty is good himself and better in coverage because Weddle's football IQ is higher. I could see the argument for the other side though. McCourty's versatility make him very valuable.
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Weddle is damn versatile himself. Not as a corner safety hybrid, but he's elite in a free and strong safety role, the way he plays close to the line while still being able to play single high is special, it creates a lot of chaos, and the fact that we have 3 safeties who can do that is awesome. I can't wait to see Weddle Webb and Jefferson all rotating blitz and coverage snaps
 
Adreme said:
The two most important parts of being a corner are how often you are targetted and what hapoens when you are. Jimmy is top 5 at both of those and thats with our defense asking him to do that without safety help. There are VERY few players who can do what he did so yes he is top5.
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This is a just general note, but solely the amount of targets rarely coincides with the ranking of top corners. Darrelle Revis had one of the best seasons of all-time for a corner in 2009 and he was still targeted well over 100 times. You can't control how many times you're targeted as a CB. Of a plethora of examples from this season, the Denver and Houston is one of the best. It's game that featured three top CBs in Chris Harris Jr., Aqib Talib and A.J. Bouye. The duo of Harris and Talib was targeted 19 times. Bouye allowed 6 receptions with 2 PDs, meaning he was targeted at least 8. Had either averaged this over the course of the season, they'd be the most targeted CBs in the league; so if we were judging corners by their amount of targets, neither would be near the top of their class. The focus of their performances, however, falls on the fact that Harris and Talib allowed just 52 yards on those 19 targets and a QB rating of 58.4. Bouye likely had a similar number given that he allowed just 38 yards on his 6 allowed receptions. No single coverage number is perfect on its own. Of them all, I personally prefer the QB rating as it encompasses the burn percentage, the TD/INT ratio, the yards allowed and the yards per attempt. It's not perfect since it slightly devalues players like an Antoine Winfield, who'd allow receptions for little yardage without having the INTs to balance out the rating. But targets on their own are near the bottom of the list as far as measuring CBs performances goes. It can very well be an indicator in certain situations, but at best it's significantly unreliable.
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
Butler is without question inferior to jimmy smith and you are he only non-pats fan on earth boneheaded enough to disagree. He is as inconsistent as Gilmore and has gotten toasted when facing upper level competition, jimmy on the other raises his play and has absolutely embarrassed every high tier wr except for green and Cooper who he was injured against every time he faced them.

And McCourty is also nowhere near Weddle, get fucking real man, mccourty is only marginally better than Webb was last year at safety, and he's our goddamn backup. you are grossly misinformed
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Lmfao
 
Lost_In_Translation said:
I wouldn't say he's top 5. Top 10-20 is a lot more reasonable. Jimmy is a great cover corner, but given that the NFL has become a passing league. There's a lot more very good cover corners than there used to be. Peterson, Sherman, Peters, Harris, Talib, Norman, Gillmore, Hayward, Verrett, Jenkins, Trufant, Rhodes, Darby, Amerson, Butler, DRC, Breaux(very underrated), Jimmy himself, Bouye played very well last season, are all very good players who are easily #1 corners who can take on just about anyone coverage wise.

You want to say Jimmy is top 15 or even top 10? fine. You can make that argument. But top 5? That's a hard sell.
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At the time though it was really only sherman,revis and vontae davis. Talib wasinconsistent at the time and norman isnt a better cover cb than jimmy smith but id say he is better because he plays to his strengths. The rest of them really hadnt developed yet
 
Lost_In_Translation said:
Butler makes super bowl winning play: *is national hero*
Smith makes super bowl winning play: *is scrutinized by media. Never ever recognized by anyone. Football gods make him injury prone*

Butler is a damn fine player but one of the most overrated in the league. He got lit up like a torch in the most recent SB.
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To be fair he got lit up by Julio Jones who has size over him as well as just being the best receiver in the league - butler is close to jimmy in my opinion but they are both good at different things
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
Butler is without question inferior to jimmy smith and you are he only non-pats fan on earth boneheaded enough to disagree. He is as inconsistent as Gilmore and has gotten toasted when facing upper level competition, jimmy on the other raises his play and has absolutely embarrassed every high tier wr except for green and Cooper who he was injured against every time he faced them.

And McCourty is also nowhere near Weddle, get fucking real man, mccourty is only marginally better than Webb was last year at safety, and he's our goddamn backup. you are grossly misinformed
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Soooo biased its crazy..
 
Adreme said:
The two most important parts of being a corner are how often you are targetted and what hapoens when you are. Jimmy is top 5 at both of those and thats with our defense asking him to do that without safety help. There are VERY few players who can do what he did so yes he is top5.
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Some of them do different things - some of them are elite in different areas that affect the game even more - to be a top corner in the league at the moment you have to be a threat to the ball - jimmy is phenomenal at what he does but he doesn't make picks often and he doesn't stay on the field enough

Peterson
Sherman
Peters
Harris
Talib
Rhodes
Jenkins

They are all quite clearly the tier above jimmy who is on par I'd say with the next tier of guys like trufant and Norman

You could maybe argue him ahead of Jenkins and at this point in his career maybe talib but Peterson, Harris and Sherman are clearly the best 3 corners in the league with peters and Rhodes behind them - that already makes jimmy being a top 5 corner prohibitive
 
Reevis in 2009 was doing something unheard of so they had to target him. If you are 1 on 1 with the best recievers in the NFL the QB has to try, you have to at least trust your best WR a little whereas Jimmy was not usually playing a specific man (though he has been doing it more and,more over the years).

The reason i cite both those stats together is because it showed WBs feared him and when they tested him it showed why.

Also it might be more old school of me but i prefer cbs who just dont give up yards to ones who do but can get INTs to make up for it. The latter might be the sexier player but the former is forcing and keeping points,off the board more consistently.
 
rossihunter2 said:
Some of them do different things - some of them are elite in different areas that affect the game even more - to be a top corner in the league at the moment you have to be a threat to the ball - jimmy is phenomenal at what he does but he doesn't make picks often and he doesn't stay on the field enough

Peterson
Sherman
Peters
Harris
Talib
Rhodes
Jenkins

They are all quite clearly the tier above jimmy who is on par I'd say with the next tier of guys like trufant and Norman

You could maybe argue him ahead of Jenkins and at this point in his career maybe talib but Peterson, Harris and Sherman are clearly the best 3 corners in the league with peters and Rhodes behind them - that already makes jimmy being a top 5 corner prohibitive
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I can see ramsey being a top tier cb already after this upcoming season also
 
rossihunter2 said:
Dude, why'd you reply to the same comment twice when neither reply added anything to the conversation?
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Obviously i didnt try to do that or made mustve made a mistake!! Why tf you so butt hurt? Its not that serious. If you gonna act like lil girl dont reply to me at all man
 
Adreme said:
Reevis in 2009 was doing something unheard of so they had to target him. If you are 1 on 1 with the best recievers in the NFL the QB has to try, you have to at least trust your best WR a little whereas Jimmy was not usually playing a specific man (though he has been doing it more and,more over the years).

The reason i cite both those stats together is because it showed WBs feared him and when they tested him it showed why.

Also it might be more old school of me but i prefer cbs who just dont give up yards to ones who do but can get INTs to make up for it. The latter might be the sexier player but the former is forcing and keeping points,off the board more consistently.
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In an offensive league turnovers are gold dust vs not giving up yards on one side of the field and it also adds an element of fear to a qb that affects the rest of his play if there is a threat of an int
 
rossihunter2 said:
In an offensive league turnovers are gold dust vs not giving up yards on one side of the field and it also adds an element of fear to a qb that affects the rest of his play if there is a threat of an int
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They are nice to have but if you just dont give yards your team is getting the ball back anyway, your defense is more rested, abd most importantly you are giving up less points.
 
Lost_In_Translation said:
I wouldn't say he's top 5. Top 10-20 is a lot more reasonable. Jimmy is a great cover corner, but given that the NFL has become a passing league. There's a lot more very good cover corners than there used to be. Peterson, Sherman, Peters, Harris, Talib, Norman, Gillmore, Hayward, Verrett, Jenkins, Trufant, Rhodes, Darby, Amerson, Butler, DRC, Breaux(very underrated), Jimmy himself, Bouye played very well last season, are all very good players who are easily #1 corners who can take on just about anyone coverage wise.

You want to say Jimmy is top 15 or even top 10? fine. You can make that argument. But top 5? That's a hard sell.
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You're way too high on Norman, DRC, Jenkins, Amerson, Gillmore, and Darby.
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
Jimmy damn near blanked julio
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Julio isnt the perfect example ODB is. It staggers me how every year Jimmy dominates against the best WR in the league and somehow nobody seems to notice how they never do as well against him as they do against some of the CBs that were listed as "better" ODB was amazing against most of the league last year but Jimmy shut him down and suddenly he goes down and ODB plays like he did against the other 30 teams in the NFL and yet we want to deny Jimmy a spot among the best in the NFL.

The man plays against 1 of the top 5 receievers in the NFL for 1/4 of his games and yet they never put up big numbers against him. Butler cant say that, Peterson cant say that, Sherman cant say that etc. Jimmy Smith does not get dominated like they will against top competition and yet we insist that those players are better on a near constant basis and I have no idea why.
 
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