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2018 Secondary

Adreme said:
Julio isnt the perfect example ODB is. It staggers me how every year Jimmy dominates against the best WR in the league and somehow nobody seems to notice how they never do as well against him as they do against some of the CBs that were listed as "better" ODB was amazing against most of the league last year but Jimmy shut him down and suddenly he goes down and ODB plays like he did against the other 30 teams in the NFL and yet we want to deny Jimmy a spot among the best in the NFL.

The man plays against 1 of the top 5 receievers in the NFL for 1/4 of his games and yet they never put up big numbers against him. Butler cant say that, Peterson cant say that, Sherman cant say that etc. Jimmy Smith does not get dominated like they will against top competition and yet we insist that those players are better on a near constant basis and I have no idea why.
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This is the argument I always make. Jimmy absolutely shuts down the best receivers in the league every time he faces them, and somehow it goes unnoticed.
 
Deebo813 said:
I never said our secondary isnt that good. Right now we do not have best secondary in lg like some fans think.
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One of the best, for sure. On paper you can't make a strong argument for ANY unit over ours. You can make an argument, but not a strong one. And of course this is all on paper arguments. But you clearly are overrating the everloving shit out of the patriots secondary and for no apparent reason.
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
One of the best, for sure. On paper you can't make a strong argument for ANY unit over ours. You can make an argument, but not a strong one. And of course this is all on paper arguments. But you clearly are overrating the everloving shit out of the patriots secondary and for no apparent reason.
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trust and believe i hate the dam patriots lol more than anyone
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
Butler is without question inferior to jimmy smith and you are he only non-pats fan on earth boneheaded enough to disagree. He is as inconsistent as Gilmore and has gotten toasted when facing upper level competition, jimmy on the other raises his play and has absolutely embarrassed every high tier wr except for green and Cooper who he was injured against every time he faced them.

And McCourty is also nowhere near Weddle, get fucking real man, mccourty is only marginally better than Webb was last year at safety, and he's our goddamn backup. you are grossly misinformed
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Cooper was nowhere to be found when we faced the Raiders last year.
 
Deebo813 said:
Lets be honest here man. Webb is an avg S... he was a key asset for us yes, but so was every other starter on our team. Webb is not a threat whats so ever.. youre correct about the different packaging we can assemble though. And the back foot joke was lame. Why did you post it in middle of your argument? Its funny as a come back, but in the middle of your argument ?
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Oh really...
 
Adreme said:
Reevis in 2009 was doing something unheard of so they had to target him. If you are 1 on 1 with the best recievers in the NFL the QB has to try, you have to at least trust your best WR a little whereas Jimmy was not usually playing a specific man (though he has been doing it more and,more over the years).

The reason i cite both those stats together is because it showed WBs feared him and when they tested him it showed why.

Also it might be more old school of me but i prefer cbs who just dont give up yards to ones who do but can get INTs to make up for it. The latter might be the sexier player but the former is forcing and keeping points,off the board more consistently.
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The rationale with regards to Revis is somewhat peculiar. The fact that Revis routinely blanketed WRs would've been a deterrent if anything, not the opposite. Opposing offenses could've easily shunned away from his side, i.e. QBs sending the house at the likes of Stanford Routt, DeAngelo Hall and Fabian Washington during Nnamdi Asomugha's prime seasons in the two-man under. In either case, Revis' campaign is a drop in the bucket of examples of top tier CBs who are routinely tested considering that the top CBs have often been in the top half in targets over the past numerous seasons. Even when Richard Sherman was glued to LCB and Josh Norman didn't travel in Carolina, they still saw their fair share of targets. Targets alone provide almost no context on their own given that seeing targets and allowing yards is far from being one in the same. Using Bouye again as an example, he saw 7 targets against Oakland at the end of the season. He also allowed 0 catches, meaning Oakland was as effective throwing to his side as spiking the ball on each of those attempts. However, if we're labeling targets as one of the top means of assessment and using a sliding scale that rewards CBs for lack of targets, by virtue of the means, we're also docking CBs for a high amount of targets. In that instance, while he'd be rewarded for the lack of yardage allowed, Bouye would also lose points for simply being targeted, so it's an exceedingly flawed barometer. Targets against specific players would at least be more appropriate, especially with the league favoring mismatches and creating game-plans specifically to shy away from the most established corners on the opposing defenses, i.e. Antonio Brown being fed opposite of Norman and Odell Beckham Jr. seeing just 6 overall snaps against Smith (A credit to both CBs in that they were game-planned against). I'm definitely in agreement about valuing yards not allowed over yards allowed and INTs. I just find that using a combination of other figures including yards/TDs allowed is immensely more reliable than using the overall amount of targets. The latter is a dart throw as a means of assessment.
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
This is the argument I always make. Jimmy absolutely shuts down the best receivers in the league every time he faces them, and somehow it goes unnoticed.
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Are we overrating him or is he being underrated? Id say its a bit of both but the main knock is always his inability to stay healthy.
 
Deebo813 said:
If roman makes them look great then we are easily an 11-5 team.
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Dixon is great, he really is. I believe he is better than Jordan Howard for example. West is serviceable, not flashy and all but a good workhorse for our first 4 games. Woodhead is a lighter and quicker 3rd down back than Juice. That's where we're at right now
 
BloodRaven said:
Are we overrating him or is he being underrated? Id say its a bit of both but the main knock is always his inability to stay healthy.
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His inability to stay healthy is why the rest of the world underrates him. His ability when healthy is not something we are overrating, his performance speaks for itself, he was nothing short of an unrecognized all pro caliber player, unfortunately he has had BAD injuries that linger into his playing time and have obvious effects. That lisfranc haunted him for over a year. But 2013-2014 was perhaps the most impressive stretch of cb play since revis from 09-10, the list of opponents would make fans of any team shit their pants, yet jimmy lined em all up and knocked em all down with authority. and before his injury in 2016 he was back to form and absolutely blanking elite receivers.

I may give him a lot of leeway when he is injured and struggling, but that doesn't mean I'm overrating his ability. When he's healthy he is a top 5 corner who never got the recognition
 
Jacquouille said:
Dixon is great, he really is. I believe he is better than Jordan Howard for example. West is serviceable, not flashy and all but a good workhorse for our first 4 games. Woodhead is a lighter and quicker 3rd down back than Juice. That's where we're at right now
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I like dixon a lot he just out 4 games
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
His inability to stay healthy is why the rest of the world underrates him. His ability when healthy is not something we are overrating, his performance speaks for itself, he was nothing short of an unrecognized all pro caliber player, unfortunately he has had BAD injuries that linger into his playing time and have obvious effects. That lisfranc haunted him for over a year. But 2013-2014 was perhaps the most impressive stretch of cb play since revis from 09-10, the list of opponents would make fans of any team shit their pants, yet jimmy lined em all up and knocked em all down with authority. and before his injury in 2016 he was back to form and absolutely blanking elite receivers.

I may give him a lot of leeway when he is injured and struggling, but that doesn't mean I'm overrating his ability. When he's healthy he is a top 5 corner who never got the recognition
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Same can be said for verret and trufant.
 
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