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The Defence, the Turnovers, and the Tucker

rossihunter2 said:
i love that it's all come full circle with ardarius lol

had him as a 2nd round pick as a safety - went undrafted after coming in at 5'8 and running a terrible 40 time and has been playing in the nickel ever since...

only to end up right back as a split-field safety just like he was at TCU in his 4th season in the NFL
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Me and you were both heavy on ardarius in the draft. So far This one looks like a gem by Eric
 
I just listened to Rex Ryan and what he had to say.... he's right. The only person who can stop the Ravens is our own offensive coordinator. He went off on the fact Henry had zero touches in the 4th quarter. Even Colin Cowherd even made the point of how we seemingly get away from our identity any time we play the Chiefs or Steelers. They get away from the run game, they start passing more, they panic when down by one possession, the same BS under Harbaugh we have seen for YEARS.

Colin pointed out how Lamar's record against the rest of the NFL is 65-18, but he's 2-9 against the Steelers & Chiefs. This is a mental problem, it's insane how we keep our identity against everyone else but we suddenly forget who we are against the Steelers & Chiefs. Henry getting 13 carries is criminal.... any other OC would be fired for only giving Henry the ball 13 times in a game, let alone zero carries in the 4th quarter when you need him most. We beat ourselves more than a team beats us, it's insane we are talking about the same mistakes over and over after every loss.
 
JO_75 said:
I just listened to Rex Ryan and what he had to say.... he's right. The only person who can stop the Ravens is our own offensive coordinator. He went off on the fact Henry had zero touches in the 4th quarter. Even Colin Cowherd even made the point of how we seemingly get away from our identity any time we play the Chiefs or Steelers. They get away from the run game, they start passing more, they panic when down by one possession, the same BS under Harbaugh we have seen for YEARS.

Colin pointed out how Lamar's record against the rest of the NFL is 65-18, but he's 2-9 against the Steelers & Chiefs. This is a mental problem, it's insane how we keep our identity against everyone else but we suddenly forget who we are against the Steelers & Chiefs. Henry getting 13 carries is criminal.... any other OC would be fired for only giving Henry the ball 13 times in a game, let alone zero carries in the 4th quarter when you need him most. We beat ourselves more than a team beats us, it's insane we are talking about the same mistakes over and over after every loss.
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It's like they're going all in on a pair of 8's before the turn without an 8 on the flop... It CAN win, but it usually doesn't without a great bluff and some cards to help. We just don't manage it well and EVERYBODY knows we're frontin'!
 
I will say... The good news is, no matter the situation when we are down, Lamar goes down and scores. Doesn't matter how poorly the team has played before, he is one of the most clutch players this season. Yes the 2 point conversion didn't succeed because it was either a bad call or miscommunication, he has that magic right now that when you need points on the board at the end of games, he will figure it out.
 
JO_75 said:
I just listened to Rex Ryan and what he had to say.... he's right. The only person who can stop the Ravens is our own offensive coordinator. He went off on the fact Henry had zero touches in the 4th quarter. Even Colin Cowherd even made the point of how we seemingly get away from our identity any time we play the Chiefs or Steelers. They get away from the run game, they start passing more, they panic when down by one possession, the same BS under Harbaugh we have seen for YEARS.

Colin pointed out how Lamar's record against the rest of the NFL is 65-18, but he's 2-9 against the Steelers & Chiefs. This is a mental problem, it's insane how we keep our identity against everyone else but we suddenly forget who we are against the Steelers & Chiefs. Henry getting 13 carries is criminal.... any other OC would be fired for only giving Henry the ball 13 times in a game, let alone zero carries in the 4th quarter when you need him most. We beat ourselves more than a team beats us, it's insane we are talking about the same mistakes over and over after every loss.
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So the first part is partially right. The 4th quarter complaint is illogical.
We ran 11 countable plays in the 4th quarter. 9 of them occurred down 8 with under 4 minutes left. That's not Derrick Henry time. Five yards and a cloud of dust is a win for the defense in that spot.

The whole "we didn't run Henry enough" narrative from this game I think is a major whiff. The box score shows 13 touches (all runs). The real number is 17. Three offensive penalties brought back three 6+ yard gains. Including the very first play of the first 4th quarter driver, where he got a 15 yard pass that was negated by ineligible downfield. We threw an INT on the very next play, and didn't see the ball again until under 4 minutes.

I don't think 17 touches is a small amount. I think the more we get into the 20+ range, the more likely it is he ends up not finishing the season. And I don't know about everybody else, but I thought Henry was here to be the solution to our postseason problems, not to be a regular season MVP.

AND... I didn't find him overly effective yesterday either. He had one large run. Nothing else above 6 yards. He was quite literally the "4-6 yards and a cloud of dust" runner yesterday. That's perfectly fine when you're up 10 in the second half and looking to kill clock. That's not good enough in a game as tight as this one.

And the obvious... Henry has an opportunity for more carries on the first drive... if he doesn't fumble. John gets a lot wrong, but he called it out today.

We had 12 possessions yesterday. Two are purely pass-only possessions (last two drives of the halves). Two other possessions resulted in a turnover within two plays.

That gets you down to 8 drives.
On those drives:
One drive started with 2nd and 19 after a holding penalty.
Another started with 1st and 20 after a holding penalty, and then 2nd and 11 after a false start.
The one at the end of the 3rd had 3rd and 11 after another false start.

Monken is good. He's not that good. There's not a lot of plays you can draw up to successfully defeat those downs and distances. Especially against good defenses.

We had five drives that were effectively "penalty free". We scored two TDs, kicked one FG, and missed two other FGs. Literally every drive where we didn't have penalties or turnovers, we were in a position to score points.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
So the first part is partially right. The 4th quarter complaint is illogical.
We ran 11 countable plays in the 4th quarter. 9 of them occurred down 8 with under 4 minutes left. That's not Derrick Henry time. Five yards and a cloud of dust is a win for the defense in that spot.

The whole "we didn't run Henry enough" narrative from this game I think is a major whiff. The box score shows 13 touches (all runs). The real number is 17. Three offensive penalties brought back three 6+ yard gains. Including the very first play of the first 4th quarter driver, where he got a 15 yard pass that was negated by ineligible downfield. We threw an INT on the very next play, and didn't see the ball again until under 4 minutes.

I don't think 17 touches is a small amount. I think the more we get into the 20+ range, the more likely it is he ends up not finishing the season. And I don't know about everybody else, but I thought Henry was here to be the solution to our postseason problems, not to be a regular season MVP.

AND... I didn't find him overly effective yesterday either. He had one large run. Nothing else above 6 yards. He was quite literally the "4-6 yards and a cloud of dust" runner yesterday. That's perfectly fine when you're up 10 in the second half and looking to kill clock. That's not good enough in a game as tight as this one.

And the obvious... Henry has an opportunity for more carries on the first drive... if he doesn't fumble. John gets a lot wrong, but he called it out today.

We had 12 possessions yesterday. Two are purely pass-only possessions (last two drives of the halves). Two other possessions resulted in a turnover within two plays.

That gets you down to 8 drives.
On those drives:
One drive started with 2nd and 19 after a holding penalty.
Another started with 1st and 20 after a holding penalty, and then 2nd and 11 after a false start.
The one at the end of the 3rd had 3rd and 11 after another false start.

Monken is good. He's not that good. There's not a lot of plays you can draw up to successfully defeat those downs and distances. Especially against good defenses.

We had five drives that were effectively "penalty free". We scored two TDs, kicked one FG, and missed two other FGs. Literally every drive where we didn't have penalties or turnovers, we were in a position to score points.
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Quick question. Hows work going today?
 
rmcjacket23 said:
So the first part is partially right. The 4th quarter complaint is illogical.
We ran 11 countable plays in the 4th quarter. 9 of them occurred down 8 with under 4 minutes left. That's not Derrick Henry time. Five yards and a cloud of dust is a win for the defense in that spot.

The whole "we didn't run Henry enough" narrative from this game I think is a major whiff. The box score shows 13 touches (all runs). The real number is 17. Three offensive penalties brought back three 6+ yard gains. Including the very first play of the first 4th quarter driver, where he got a 15 yard pass that was negated by ineligible downfield. We threw an INT on the very next play, and didn't see the ball again until under 4 minutes.

I don't think 17 touches is a small amount. I think the more we get into the 20+ range, the more likely it is he ends up not finishing the season. And I don't know about everybody else, but I thought Henry was here to be the solution to our postseason problems, not to be a regular season MVP.

AND... I didn't find him overly effective yesterday either. He had one large run. Nothing else above 6 yards. He was quite literally the "4-6 yards and a cloud of dust" runner yesterday. That's perfectly fine when you're up 10 in the second half and looking to kill clock. That's not good enough in a game as tight as this one.

And the obvious... Henry has an opportunity for more carries on the first drive... if he doesn't fumble. John gets a lot wrong, but he called it out today.

We had 12 possessions yesterday. Two are purely pass-only possessions (last two drives of the halves). Two other possessions resulted in a turnover within two plays.

That gets you down to 8 drives.
On those drives:
One drive started with 2nd and 19 after a holding penalty.
Another started with 1st and 20 after a holding penalty, and then 2nd and 11 after a false start.
The one at the end of the 3rd had 3rd and 11 after another false start.

Monken is good. He's not that good. There's not a lot of plays you can draw up to successfully defeat those downs and distances. Especially against good defenses.

We had five drives that were effectively "penalty free". We scored two TDs, kicked one FG, and missed two other FGs. Literally every drive where we didn't have penalties or turnovers, we were in a position to score points.
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This was the one game I’ll agree running the ball with Henry just couldn’t work out. Henry was getting decent runs and they all got called back on penalties, putting us in a passing down.

Now, he absolutely 100% should’ve been on the field for the 2 pointer, and we have got to start finding a way to involve Henry in the passing game, he’s not a receiving back and screens work big with him but only if the blocking is perfect, but he can be effective as a dump off back, leaving him isolated in the flat takes a defender away and if they snooze on him waiting in the flat, it’s a big play. Not to say it should be a focal point, just that he should simply be on the field more on passing downs, justice hill does well in third down duties but he doesn’t strike fear like Henry does.
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
This was the one game I’ll agree running the ball with Henry just couldn’t work out. Henry was getting decent runs and they all got called back on penalties, putting us in a passing down.

Now, he absolutely 100% should’ve been on the field for the 2 pointer, and we have got to start finding a way to involve Henry in the passing game, he’s not a receiving back and screens work big with him but only if the blocking is perfect, but he can be effective as a dump off back, leaving him isolated in the flat takes a defender away and if they snooze on him waiting in the flat, it’s a big play. Not to say it should be a focal point, just that he should simply be on the field more on passing downs, justice hill does well in third down duties but he doesn’t strike fear like Henry does.
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The problem is Hill is an excellent pass blocking back, and Henry isn't. And Hill is obviously a better pass catching RB out the backfield. I think using Henry in passing game is fine, but just not on obvious 3rd down passing downs.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
The problem is Hill is an excellent pass blocking back, and Henry isn't. And Hill is obviously a better pass catching RB out the backfield. I think using Henry in passing game is fine, but just not on obvious 3rd down passing downs.
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Didn't help that after a few runs we would be pinned further back thanks to penalties committed by the O-line.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
So the first part is partially right. The 4th quarter complaint is illogical.
We ran 11 countable plays in the 4th quarter. 9 of them occurred down 8 with under 4 minutes left. That's not Derrick Henry time. Five yards and a cloud of dust is a win for the defense in that spot.

The whole "we didn't run Henry enough" narrative from this game I think is a major whiff. The box score shows 13 touches (all runs). The real number is 17. Three offensive penalties brought back three 6+ yard gains. Including the very first play of the first 4th quarter driver, where he got a 15 yard pass that was negated by ineligible downfield. We threw an INT on the very next play, and didn't see the ball again until under 4 minutes.

I don't think 17 touches is a small amount. I think the more we get into the 20+ range, the more likely it is he ends up not finishing the season. And I don't know about everybody else, but I thought Henry was here to be the solution to our postseason problems, not to be a regular season MVP.

AND... I didn't find him overly effective yesterday either. He had one large run. Nothing else above 6 yards. He was quite literally the "4-6 yards and a cloud of dust" runner yesterday. That's perfectly fine when you're up 10 in the second half and looking to kill clock. That's not good enough in a game as tight as this one.

And the obvious... Henry has an opportunity for more carries on the first drive... if he doesn't fumble. John gets a lot wrong, but he called it out today.

We had 12 possessions yesterday. Two are purely pass-only possessions (last two drives of the halves). Two other possessions resulted in a turnover within two plays.

That gets you down to 8 drives.
On those drives:
One drive started with 2nd and 19 after a holding penalty.
Another started with 1st and 20 after a holding penalty, and then 2nd and 11 after a false start.
The one at the end of the 3rd had 3rd and 11 after another false start.

Monken is good. He's not that good. There's not a lot of plays you can draw up to successfully defeat those downs and distances. Especially against good defenses.

We had five drives that were effectively "penalty free". We scored two TDs, kicked one FG, and missed two other FGs. Literally every drive where we didn't have penalties or turnovers, we were in a position to score points.
Click to expand...

Penalties made sure that he would see the ball less and less. That early 4th quarter run that went for 7 yards and was negated by a flag made sure to get him off the field.
 
Any mention of the coaching in playoff atmospheres?
Tank said:
I'd agree with this if we weren't playing the team ahead of us in the division in the 2nd half of the season. That was probably as close to a playoff game that you'll get at this point and the offense shit the bed as they have too many times the last several years in these situations.
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Wtf is wrong with Marcus Williams AND Eddie Jackson? Maybe we were blessed with playing that largely average as fuck Steelers team when we ran the Hamton + Ardarius experiment. But like the moment those 2 weren't playing... poof it's fixed. Even with Stephens being a 67 catch percentage guy still.

Those 2 are both former very high level players, especially Williams. A few years ago Williams was thought of as the best S in the league. Players fall off all the time. With that being said they don't go from being best in the league to such an unbelievable liability that they're benched entirely to be replaced by a guy so small and unathletic he was deemed undraftable.
 
UPennChem said:
Wtf is wrong with Marcus Williams AND Eddie Jackson? Maybe we were blessed with playing that largely average as fuck Steelers team when we ran the Hamton + Ardarius experiment. But like the moment those 2 weren't playing... poof it's fixed. Even with Stephens being a 67 catch percentage guy still.

Those 2 are both former very high level players, especially Williams. A few years ago Williams was thought of as the best S in the league. Players fall off all the time. With that being said they don't go from being best in the league to such an unbelievable liability that they're benched entirely to be replaced by a guy so small and unathletic he was deemed undraftable.
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I've got nothing on Marcus Williams, but Eddie's range had been sapped by injuries and he was probably best suited playing closer to the LOS. They tried him as a deep S but it did not work out at this stage of his career. I had higher hopes but I was wrong on that one.
 
Simba said:
I've got nothing on Marcus Williams, but Eddie's range had been sapped by injuries and he was probably best suited playing closer to the LOS. They tried him as a deep S but it did not work out at this stage of his career. I had higher hopes but I was wrong on that one.
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Agreed, he's more understandable. But even he shouldn't have been that bad. He should've just been bad and not so bad he's not traveling with the team.

Williams truly baffles me.
 
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