2025 Offseason Thread

[rossihunter2]

Now we're in the offseason we can look forward to a special Ravens tradition - completely deluding themselves about one of the Guard spots.

Every season the Ravens go right through OTAs, camp and the preseason convincing themselves that one young player is going to be great at Guard. They're so certain of it that they never really give anyone else a chance before the real games start. Then they yank them out of the lineup within a few weeks. It's been Vorhees, young Faalele, Tyre Phillips and so many more.

It seems to work. We usually end up with a great line once the fool's guard has been removed. Who will it be this year?

it might be vorhees again next year (just like it was tyre phillips twice too)

you also forgot the Sala experiment

 

[All_black_everything]

For me, its actually simpler. Buffalo wasn't better than us. I think it'd be impossible to argue that.
Everything we achieve in 2025 will almost certainly be tied to improved execution by players already on the roster. To put it more simply... Buffalo beats us on Sunday if we had Maxx Crosby. There's not a single personnel upgrade I can point to that would have made a difference in that game. Not one. And if there was one, shockingly to say, it was at the QB position.

Unlike every other postseason loss, where the entire fanbase greatly overvalues the last game they saw and spend the entire offseason talking about the changes they need to make to not lose the last game they saw, I see none. I see several high-end players that simply needed to do their jobs better, and they didn't. And personnel changes won't fix that. Either they'll play better, or they won't, and the outcome will be what it is.

If you take the whole season in review, and identify areas that were at several different points "issues", then the list of potential personnel upgrades would look like:
1. Oline, specifically Guard (and the left side if Stanley walks). Was bad in some spots, got better as the year went on.
2. Safety play. Was atrocious for half the year, then got fixed. Is that fix temporary or permanent?
3. Inside linebacker play in passing situation, and/or defending TEs/RBs and the middle of the field.

I don't think any of those three areas were problems in why we lost to Buffalo, but those are the three focus areas for me.

I agree with your take and would suggest adding corner to the list depending upon the safety fix. However, adding another starter there would be ideal. Either at slot or outside and putting Marlo in the other spot

 

[UPennChem]

For me, its actually simpler. Buffalo wasn't better than us. I think it'd be impossible to argue that.
Everything we achieve in 2025 will almost certainly be tied to improved execution by players already on the roster. To put it more simply... Buffalo beats us on Sunday if we had Maxx Crosby. There's not a single personnel upgrade I can point to that would have made a difference in that game. Not one. And if there was one, shockingly to say, it was at the QB position.

Unlike every other postseason loss, where the entire fanbase greatly overvalues the last game they saw and spend the entire offseason talking about the changes they need to make to not lose the last game they saw, I see none. I see several high-end players that simply needed to do their jobs better, and they didn't. And personnel changes won't fix that. Either they'll play better, or they won't, and the outcome will be what it is.

If you take the whole season in review, and identify areas that were at several different points "issues", then the list of potential personnel upgrades would look like:
1. Oline, specifically Guard (and the left side if Stanley walks). Was bad in some spots, got better as the year went on.
2. Safety play. Was atrocious for half the year, then got fixed. Is that fix temporary or permanent?
3. Inside linebacker play in passing situation, and/or defending TEs/RBs and the middle of the field.

I don't think any of those three areas were problems in why we lost to Buffalo, but those are the three focus areas for me.

I agree Buffalo wasn't better on paper. But they found a way to not implode like us. They ended up with more points on the board at clock strikes 0. Therefore they were the better team.

Ultimately, without having someone like Maxx Crosby or other impact players that really move the needle, I see no real reason to believe next year would be any different. Our roster is gonna look highly similar which is bad not good and those impact guys aren't coming.

 

[rossihunter2]

Good to know that EDC wants to get extensions worked on for Linderbaum and Hamilton. Looks like decisions will be made at TE more so next season (plz keep Likely). Doesn't sound like BS will come back unless we get him for cheap.

the unspoken part of that seems to be that they're not looking at massaging Mark's 2025 cap hit with an extension... seems happy for him to play out his final year rather than commit long-term... at least right now

 

[redrum52]

Sounded like the roster will remain largely unchanged heading into next season. Unsurprisingly, the biggest question mark seemed to be Ronnie. EDC said they'd like to have him back but also think Roger could flip over if needed. Otherwise, refill depth and run it back type of situation.

Figured this might be the teams thinking if Ronnie priced himself. Dont like having to keep moving pieces around on the line.

 

[rossihunter2]

Sounded like the roster will remain largely unchanged heading into next season. Unsurprisingly, the biggest question mark seemed to be Ronnie. EDC said they'd like to have him back but also think Roger could flip over if needed. Otherwise, refill depth and run it back type of situation.

tbf in context he didnt bring up the idea of roger switching

he only responded to someone asking if RR could switch if ronnie left and he brought up that RR played some LT in college

 

[Simba]

I agree Buffalo wasn't better on paper. But they found a way to not implode like us. They ended up with more points on the board at clock strikes 0. Therefore they were the better team.

Ultimately, without having someone like Maxx Crosby or other impact players that really move the needle, I see no real reason to believe next year would be any different. Our roster is gonna look highly similar which is bad not good and those impact guys aren't coming.

But why is that bad? This wasn’t an inferior team. It was a team that could have won it all if they didn’t drop the ball literally and figuratively. Not saying they can’t and shouldn’t improve in some areas, but I don’t really understand the thought that we should tear it down and try something new.

 

[rossihunter2]

I could not disagree more here. Lamar, Henry, Andrews (despite the bad game), Hamilton, and Humphrey are all high impact players. And then we have guys like Zay and Wiggins who aren't quite there yet but are building towards it. This is a damn good roster and one of the best in the league. Shit I'd say Philly (minus the QB - only thing holding them back from annihilating this league) and SF (when healthy) are the only 2 that rival us.

the fact that this team returns without basically any key players moving on and no major needs/holes outside of the ronnie stanley LT situation is wild... and EDC basically said as much in the presser - he's looking ahead to 2026 when thinking about potential extensions/contracts/difficult roster decisions - and said this offseason didnt project to be a complicated one as it pertains to our own guys

we have 11 picks (albeit it seems like a weak class) and a small amount of cap space to work with (not much but the ability to create more if we want)

 

[UPennChem]

But why is that bad? This wasn’t an inferior team. It was a team that could have won it all if they didn’t drop the ball literally and figuratively. Not saying they can’t and shouldn’t improve in some areas, but I don’t really understand the thought that we should tear it down and try something new.

I'm not about tearing things down. I've just said it's very clear that text's roster will look like this one. Some areas will marginally improve and others will marginally worsen. Then come playoff time it will be about whether these guys can rise to the occasion and execute. There's a really large amount of evidence that they won't. That's why I'm pessimistic. It really comes down to having more guys on the roster that rise instead of fall. That's really hard to get and when you do they cost a lot of money. So they're probably not coming.

 

[rossihunter2]

In 2024 I would not call Andrews, Hamilton, or Humphrey impact players.

Hamilton last year and Marlon and Andrews from years ago were impact players. Henry is imo overwhelmingly the closest thing we've ever had to an impact them player other than Lamar.

I'm not saying we don't have a good roster. Its precisely that we have a good roster and not one with a small handful of best in the league guys which is why we'll make the second round of playoffs and get bounced.

I think you'd find it hard to argue that this teams juice came exclusively from Lamar and Henry. There were small flashes from guys like Likely, Flowers, and Bateman. On defense Marlon had a few INTs this year and Ardarius made about 4 big plays. Other than that, the defense was unbelievably devoid of impact guys.

We played to what we were. A good team that loses because it's turnover prone under pressure and incapable of getting TOs.

how are hamilton and humphrey not impact players lol
humphrey was a 1st team all-pro and hamilton should have been too

 

[redrum52]

Is there any possibility they're not still sold on Orr?

But why is that bad? This wasn’t an inferior team. It was a team that could have won it all if they didn’t drop the ball literally and figuratively. Not saying they can’t and shouldn’t improve in some areas, but I don’t really understand the thought that we should tear it down and try something new.

That's the upsetting thing most don't want to accept. The team just didn't get it done. That's why this shit sucks so much. Back to back seasons I'd consider utter failures. The roster isn't the problem here. Dumb ass self inflicted wounds.

 

[rossihunter2]

You called me dramatic last year too. I don't take it as an insult whatsoever. I would say I'm not dramatic at all, but that my view of the world is just harsher than yours. You see things in a very nuanced and squishy fashion. That's why I really like reading what you have to say.

I see things in a very cut and dry, absolute kind of way. Just a difference in opinion.

you can say all sorts of things and i enjoy discussing them with you and others

but you are so dramatic lol - look at some of the things you said earlier in this season about the prospects of this team after certain games... you arent beating those allegations lol

 

[rossihunter2]

If you take the whole season in review, and identify areas that were at several different points "issues", then the list of potential personnel upgrades would look like:
1. Oline, specifically Guard (and the left side if Stanley walks). Was bad in some spots, got better as the year went on.
2. Safety play. Was atrocious for half the year, then got fixed. Is that fix temporary or permanent?
3. Inside linebacker play in passing situation, and/or defending TEs/RBs and the middle of the field.

I don't think any of those three areas were problems in why we lost to Buffalo, but those are the three focus areas for me.

specifically on this

I think you've highlighted 2 of the 3 biggest problem areas

Mekari was a clear weak link on that OL - Faalele started the year that way and improved massively by the end - he's not someone you love at RG but he's not someone you feel desperate to replace - LG feels like it's in real need of an upgrade

safety play wasn't an issue at the end of the year but obviously the fix took one of our key chess pieces and reduced his impact by forcing him into a box (ironically by taking him out of the box lol)

and while there are questions at ILB...

i think WR3 is a much bigger area of weakness on this roster - but partly that's because if we can fix the WLB spot with a combination of harrison and board, it feels like that's not a spot that's going to be difficult to fix

 

[rossihunter2]

I agree with your take and would suggest adding corner to the list depending upon the safety fix. However, adding another starter there would be ideal. Either at slot or outside and putting Marlo in the other spot

think you have to look at outside CB - let marlon and hamilton stay in the nickel

 

[rossihunter2]

I agree Buffalo wasn't better on paper. But they found a way to not implode like us. They ended up with more points on the board at clock strikes 0. Therefore they were the better team.

Ultimately, without having someone like Maxx Crosby or other impact players that really move the needle, I see no real reason to believe next year would be any different. Our roster is gonna look highly similar which is bad not good and those impact guys aren't coming.

so the raiders are a better team than us then by that logic?
they beat us and had maxx crosby therefore they must be a better team right...

 

[rossihunter2]

Is there any possibility they're not still sold on Orr?



That's the upsetting thing most don't want to accept. The team just didn't get it done. That's why this shit sucks so much. Back to back seasons I'd consider utter failures. The roster isn't the problem here. Dumb ass self inflicted wounds.

31 teams lose to end their season every year
playoff football isnt a true meritocracy - good teams will beat better teams in a single-elimination bracket with 1 winner takes all game

a lot of what happens is luck

and while there is definitely something to do with mentality going on... the playoffs are such a small sample size (especially when you lose) that luck has a much bigger impact... especially when the 3 best teams annually are in the AFC

 

[rmcjacket23]

I'm not about tearing things down. I've just said it's very clear that text's roster will look like this one. Some areas will marginally improve and others will marginally worsen. Then come playoff time it will be about whether these guys can rise to the occasion and execute. There's a really large amount of evidence that they won't. That's why I'm pessimistic. It really comes down to having more guys on the roster that rise instead of fall. That's really hard to get and when you do they cost a lot of money. So they're probably not coming.

So the only thing I'd say is that the "really large amount of evidence they won't" involves a very, very, very small list of players, because it crosses many, many years. And # 8 is at the very top of every objective person's list of said players. So either that player needs to play better, or a QB change is needed. If the only objective is to win the SB.

 

[Simba]

I'm not about tearing things down. I've just said it's very clear that text's roster will look like this one. Some areas will marginally improve and others will marginally worsen. Then come playoff time it will be about whether these guys can rise to the occasion and execute. There's a really large amount of evidence that they won't. That's why I'm pessimistic. It really comes down to having more guys on the roster that rise instead of fall. That's really hard to get and when you do they cost a lot of money. So they're probably not coming.

Then that’s a whole different discussion. That’s about a team being mentally tough at critical points. Has nothing to do with how many impact players we have, because we absolutely do have them. I too think it’s concerning they don’t all show up when they need to, but that doesn’t make them not impact players in my eyes.

 

[gtalk12]

So the only thing I'd say is that the "really large amount of evidence they won't" involves a very, very, very small list of players, because it crosses many, many years. And # 8 is at the very top of every objective person's list of said players. So either that player needs to play better, or a QB change is needed. If the only objective is to win the SB.

Lamar has no choice but to play even better

 

[UPennChem]

you can say all sorts of things and i enjoy discussing them with you and others

but you are so dramatic lol - look at some of the things you said earlier in this season about the prospects of this team after certain games... you arent beating those allegations lol

Well as I recall it, it went like this. I think I'm being fair because I feel I can be self aware.

Prior to the season I had a very low expectation and said the team couldn't compete for a ring.

Was extremely encouraged in the close KC lost. Thought I may have been too harsh on the preseason pessimism.

Was back to full blowm pessimism after 0-2.

Thought Orr was probably not the guy given how bad the defense was prior to 1st Steelers game.

Was extremely delighted by the major improvements made after the defensive personnel shifts.

Ended the season saying the league is so weak yet again that we should be the favorite if we play at our best. But acknowledged even on game day we are more than capable of beating ourselves.

Ended the season thinking that next year's team is gonna look a ton like this one, so I'm not sure why it's gonna be so different.

Now on another note, if I come off as dramatic that's a shame because it's gotta be bothersome, so I apologize. I don't think I'm a crazy person. I think I have a harsh perspective with a tendency to pessimism over optimism. But I don't see it as dramatic, I see it as the other side of the coin.

Ultimately thanks for putting up with me.