The Offensive Line Thread

[29BmoreBird22]

Yup. Olinemen AND dlinemen are both getting taller every year. Months ago I did think 6'6 was too talk for guard but after reading more into it, it's not the uncommon and it's not that rough. You just gotta be athletic and flexible enough. Only concern is pulling at 6'6. Trapping is fine at 6'6 but to pull and lead block at 6'6 is a doozy. Not many can do it.



I agree that I'd prefer that lineup, but more so because I think Howard projects better at LG than at RT. I have concerns about his mobility.

Why is pulling and lead blocking at that height a concern?

 

[RavensMania]

I think there's this mammoth by the name of KO who's working out mighty fine as a 6'5" guard.

Without looking up anymore (since that's a really difficult thing to look up without knowing relative size), Alex Boone was a 6'6" guard and did really well in SF, Le'el Collins is 6'5" and was considered a first round prospect at guard, Mike Pouncey is a 6'5" center and did really well in Miami (still does really well), and Andrew Whitworth excelled at LG for the Bengals and he's 6'7".

I'd honestly guess the average interior lineman is 6'4". While I'm one to prefer a guard/center at like 6'3", there is no hard and fast rule for a lineman cannot excel at guard because of his height. Writing off Hurst purely because he's 6'6" is naive.

That's not the only reason, but there are many more failures at that height than successes. I thought he played average. He did miss some blocks and allowed pressure on both RT and LT. No one wins them all, but his footwork isn't great and will be the reason he fails if he does in fact fail. To come out and name a few players that succeeded is ridiculous. Look at the names you came up with. These players are some of the better lineman in the NFL and there is more reason than height in why they succeeded. They had other qualities that allowed them to OVERCOME their height disadvantage.

 

[The Raven]

Why is pulling and lead blocking at that height a concern?

Longer legs = less agility.

Moving straight ahead or at an angle to down block or drive block (while dropping) is doable but it's not easy for a 6'6 320 pound dude to take that bucket step, accelerate, turn the corner before the RB beats you there, and lock squarely on to your assignment and maintain the block. It's hard enough for shorter linemen to square up on LBs and DBs in the open field. It's hard enough for olinemen to pull into the open field before the back gets there. Legit, half the time a sweep or toss fails, it's because the RB gets to the alley before the olinemen seals it.

I just worry that a scheme that is somewhat dependent on pulls is less effective with lumbering linemen.

 

[balfan23]

No doubt - Lewis dropping is the worst injury news yet (unless of course Joe's injury is going to be an on going issue). The o line is starting to feel like the corner position group of 2014 ... the unit that we were the thinnest to start with and suffered multiple injuries ... AND we haven't even started the season!

So - we need to add to that position group. How? Do we sacrifice future draft pick(s) and trade for a guard who could be starter quality or do we just promote within and pick up a cast off who will just be there fore depth.

Certainly, the best would be that one of our current backups plays well enough to start and we don't have to lose draft picks to firm things up. However, we simply can't sustain any more injuries on the o line - what are the chances of going 16 games without suffering injuries? Flacco being in a somewhat more fragile state - nothing is more important that having a functioning o line. We need a run game and we need to keep Flacco from getting whacked to be successful this year.

 

[Oldfaithful]

No doubt - Lewis dropping is the worst injury news yet (unless of course Joe's injury is going to be an on going issue). The o line is starting to feel like the corner position group of 2014 ... the unit that we were the thinnest to start with and suffered multiple injuries ... AND we haven't even started the season!

So - we need to add to that position group. How? Do we sacrifice future draft pick(s) and trade for a guard who could be starter quality or do we just promote within and pick up a cast off who will just be there fore depth.

Certainly, the best would be that one of our current backups plays well enough to start and we don't have to lose draft picks to firm things up. However, we simply can't sustain any more injuries on the o line - what are the chances of going 16 games without suffering injuries? Flacco being in a somewhat more fragile state - nothing is more important that having a functioning o line. We need a run game and we need to keep Flacco from getting whacked to be successful this year.

Pass blocking should be fine. Even our bench players looked like they're solid in pass protection. It's the run blocking that worries me as well. That said, when healthy Howard is an absolute road grader and putting him next to Yanda will create a metric fuckload of more running lanes next season than we had in the previous ones. Also it's worth noting that even with the shitty blocking oline last year West and Dixon looked pretty good in spite of it. Hurst scares the hell out of me, but I'm hoping that I get proven wrong.

This offense will likely be better than last years. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

 

[Rav'n Maniac]

If we are going to trade for someone on the OL, I wouldn't mind us going after Carpenter from the Jets. Although he does have a 2 year sizable cap hit, we could work out an extension with him. Good LG that's only 28 and has that Tide background that Ozzie likes. Just a thought.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

That's not the only reason, but there are many more failures at that height than successes. I thought he played average. He did miss some blocks and allowed pressure on both RT and LT. No one wins them all, but his footwork isn't great and will be the reason he fails if he does in fact fail. To come out and name a few players that succeeded is ridiculous. Look at the names you came up with. These players are some of the better lineman in the NFL and there is more reason than height in why they succeeded. They had other qualities that allowed them to OVERCOME their height disadvantage.

So you're seeing my point, then- height isn't the defining factor; it's the actual skill set and ability of the player.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

Longer legs = less agility.

Moving straight ahead or at an angle to down block or drive block (while dropping) is doable but it's not easy for a 6'6 320 pound dude to take that bucket step, accelerate, turn the corner before the RB beats you there, and lock squarely on to your assignment and maintain the block. It's hard enough for shorter linemen to square up on LBs and DBs in the open field. It's hard enough for olinemen to pull into the open field before the back gets there. Legit, half the time a sweep or toss fails, it's because the RB gets to the alley before the olinemen seals it.

I just worry that a scheme that is somewhat dependent on pulls is less effective with lumbering linemen.

I thought that was it, but needed to confirm.

If I'm remembering well, Hurst wasn't particularly agile at UNC, so that's a concern.

 

[RavensMania]

So you're seeing my point, then- height isn't the defining factor; it's the actual skill set and ability of the player.

yes, that is correct, the player has to be athletic, and agile enough, at that size to be effective. You must see my point as well.

 

[balfan23]

If we are going to trade for someone on the OL, I wouldn't mind us going after Carpenter from the Jets. Although he does have a 2 year sizable cap hit, we could work out an extension with him. Good LG that's only 28 and has that Tide background that Ozzie likes. Just a thought.

Question is whether the team is going to want to commit to a long-term option at LG with Yanda and Lewis in their future plans. I'm thinking - if we are going to seek to trade for o line help - it will be to give up less for a guy who is a 1 year starter rather than a fixture. That said, I do think we're going to seek to pick up a cut rather than trade.

No matter how you slice it - we're going to be holding our breath all year looking at the injury report hoping no starting O linemen show up on it.

 

[rossihunter2]

so it sounds like jensen absolutely violently pancaked zadarius in 1v1 that started a little fight at one point... jensen is going from strength to strength now that he isnt sharing 1st team snaps

 

[29BmoreBird22]

yes, that is correct, the player has to be athletic, and agile enough, at that size to be effective. You must see my point as well.

And I do- being that tall DOES hamper the ability to move well, but it isn't a death sentence.

Basically, I want to see Hurst before I pass judgement. I won't write him off solely due to his size.

 

[rossihunter2]

And I do- being that tall DOES hamper the ability to move well, but it isn't a death sentence.

Basically, I want to see Hurst before I pass judgement. I won't write him off solely due to his size.

not that im well educated on stuff like this but pure height isnt always indicative of leg length or torso length

 

[29BmoreBird22]

not that im well educated on stuff like this but pure height isnt always indicative of leg length or torso length

This is also true. I think it was Garrett Boles who was criticized heavily for his arm length despite being a tall tackle. Richard Sherman, while tall, still has unusually long arms for someone his height. He's got tackle length arms.

 

[rossihunter2]

This is also true. I think it was Garrett Boles who was criticized heavily for his arm length despite being a tall tackle. Richard Sherman, while tall, still has unusually long arms for someone his height. He's got tackle length arms.

I think the same of ahkello Witherspoon I think it was who has crazy long arms despite not being remarkably tall

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Why is pulling and lead blocking at that height a concern?

Not sure if it's factual or not but a higher center of gravity tends to often affect a players ability to change direction quickly, when you're trying to land impact blocks on the run you need to be able to adjust on the run to avoid whiffing and cluttering the backfield.

Again, I could be wrong. I'm just applying the somewhat true stereotype of "small corners belong in the slot because they tend to change direction faster" to offensive linemen, sounds logical to me

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Pass blocking should be fine. Even our bench players looked like they're solid in pass protection. It's the run blocking that worries me as well. That said, when healthy Howard is an absolute road grader and putting him next to Yanda will create a metric fuckload of more running lanes next season than we had in the previous ones. Also it's worth noting that even with the shitty blocking oline last year West and Dixon looked pretty good in spite of it. Hurst scares the hell out of me, but I'm hoping that I get proven wrong.

This offense will likely be better than last years. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Metric fuckload is the greatest quantitative term I've ever heard

 

[cobrajet]

There is a reason that no one has signed Mangold

Yeah because Mangold told everyone, I will play but I hate the heat and am not doing the dog days of a training camp! He said his chin gets too sweaty with his big beard........lol

 

[BloodRaven]

Im ok with Hurst at LG, he still has a lot more to prove though imo

 

[BloodRaven]

Also I love these one on one challenges and the fact our offense has been winning them