Rant; The AFC (L)East

[RavensMania]

I's quite illogical. For example in our national rugby league comp which is the best league in the world, we do 24 games a season and though you won't play every team in a regular season, you will play rivals twice maybe 2-3 times a season. And then you have the playoffs that go for 4 weeks. Playoffs are not decided by divisions but instead on win loss record for rankings. And then in the english premier league they play 38 games a season and rivals are pretty much just made of everyone because everyone in england hate eachothers opposing teams lol.

This is what the league looked like in 1960 when the Dallas Cowboys entered the league. At the time the Skins were the southernmost team in the league and George Preston Marshall, the asshole that owned the skins at athe time wasn’t going to give the Cowboys the necessary vote for the, to become a franchise. Well the cowboys found out that Marshall’s wife wrote the Redskins fight song “Hail to the Redskjns” and trademark the song and sold it for vote. That is how they entered the league and that’s is how the cowboys and redskins rivalry began. When they reorganized they moved the Cowboys in the East with the giants and eagles and added the St. Louis cardinals.

East
Philadelphia Eagles
Cleveland Browns
New York Giants
St. Louis Cardinals
Pittsburgh Steelers
Washington Redskins
West
Green Bay Packers
San Francisco 49ers
Detroit Lions
Baltimore Colts
Chicago Bears
Los Angeles Rams
Dallas Cowboys

 

[RavensMania]

Yeah exactly, rivalries aren't made simply due to being a division. Rivalries are made to close proximity and hatred for the city and fanbase etc. As I mentioned, if you look at the english premier league theres pretty much a rivalry between every team. I don't feel a real rivalry between the pats and dolphins, or the ravens and browns or the buccaneers and saints.

I believe the rivalry for the browns and ravens is more from the browns side since we were formerly the Browns. My wife’s family lives in NE and they hate the Dolphins so that rivalry goes very deep. They hate the jets the most though.

 

[purplepittabread88]

If I could add something onto the schedule it would be an in market game every season. Give us the Redskins every year. so many great matches robbed from the stupid format; battle of penn, apple city, texas bowl, bay area, beltway. It is so dumb. Take away 1 preseason game and boom.

 

[Pats]

Lol you may not feel a rivalry between pats and dolphins, but I have a TON of family and friends who are phins fans and I’ve never met a phins fan who doesn’t have a very harsh hatred for the pats

Ehh the thing is, when one team is irrelevant since dan marino, its tough to find any sizzle imo. The jets are the only real division rival because its new york and they are the buttfumbles.

 

[Pats]

I believe the rivalry for the browns and ravens is more from the browns side since we were formerly the Browns. My wife’s family lives in NE and they hate the Dolphins so that rivalry goes very deep. They hate the jets the most though.

The funny thing with that is, the browns never got closer to be nfl champs til just before they moved, because a few years later some of the core pieces on that team would make the ravens have that beastly 2000 defense. Cleveland are just a team of sadness

 

[DeVito52]

Ehh the thing is, when one team is irrelevant since dan marino, its tough to find any sizzle imo. The jets are the only real division rival because its new york and they are the buttfumbles.

The dolphins beat the patriots almost every year...

 

[Pats]

This is what the league looked like in 1960 when the Dallas Cowboys entered the league. At the time the Skins were the southernmost team in the league and George Preston Marshall, the asshole that owned the skins at athe time wasn’t going to give the Cowboys the necessary vote for the, to become a franchise. Well the cowboys found out that Marshall’s wife wrote the Redskins fight song “Hail to the Redskjns” and trademark the song and sold it for vote. That is how they entered the league and that’s is how the cowboys and redskins rivalry began. When they reorganized they moved the Cowboys in the East with the giants and eagles and added the St. Louis cardinals.

East
Philadelphia Eagles
Cleveland Browns
New York Giants
St. Louis Cardinals
Pittsburgh Steelers
Washington Redskins
West
Green Bay Packers
San Francisco 49ers
Detroit Lions
Baltimore Colts
Chicago Bears
Los Angeles Rams
Dallas Cowboys

I like that format a lot better than the current one tbh, even though its still imperfect. And LOL at the circumstances for the redskins and cowboys and the vote.

 

[Pats]

The dolphins beat the patriots almost every year...

They do but im not talking about individual wins in miami every year or whatever, i'm talking about what have they done in the post season? Like if the browns somehow had an ohio voodoo over the ravens every year it still wouldn't bring them to any respectability, it would just annoy the other franchise once a year.

 

[purplepittabread88]

You have to understand it's a feedback loop. Imagine if I told you we have a 0% chance at winning the division or having a playoff game in the next decade, and we start off the season 0-1 (at NE) with a 75% chance to start off 0-2?
Good luck getting players to come to those teams or coaches who can have success. Almost every year a dominate team takes the 5. So you have to realistically go 10-4 outside of NE every year to make the playoffs. They get more coaches fired, new staff in on other teams year after year.
However, something lost I believe is a major reason they have a yearly loss (rare cases 2) to their division is only because they are rivals. The seems see the Patriots twice every year for forever, and it has been the same 2 guys running it for almost 2 decades. You pick up on something, or find a weakness (winning in Miami?) That is why even good teams go 4-2 in the division often.

 

[allblackraven]

You have to understand it's a feedback loop. Imagine if I told you we have a 0% chance at winning the division or having a playoff game in the next decade, and we start off the season 0-1 (at NE) with a 75% chance to start off 0-2?
Good luck getting players to come to those teams or coaches who can have success. Almost every year a dominate team takes the 5. So you have to realistically go 10-4 outside of NE every year to make the playoffs. They get more coaches fired, new staff in on other teams year after year.
However, something lost I believe is a major reason they have a yearly loss (rare cases 2) to their division is only because they are rivals. The seems see the Patriots twice every year for forever, and it has been the same 2 guys running it for almost 2 decades. You pick up on something, or find a weakness (winning in Miami?) That is why even good teams go 4-2 in the division often.

Huh? What's stopping Jets, Dolphins and Bills to hire competent GMs, coaches and scouts and build quality team from draft?
The Eagles have turned around dumpster fire left by Chip Kelly in 2 years.

 

[purplepittabread88]

Huh? What's stopping Jets, Dolphins and Bills to hire competent GMs, coaches and scouts and build quality team from draft?
The Eagles have turned around dumpster fire left by Chip Kelly in 2 years.

Owners are far more likely to give up because of the lack of success that is made impossible by Brady and Bill and move onto a new option as they fail year after year. It doesn't matter regardless, I've been working on something for the last hour and spoiler, the weak division means nothing to the Patriots success.

 

[purplepittabread88]

Trying to say their dynasty is mostly a product of their division is ridiculous.

I feel the only argument that could be made for this, I am pretty sure the Pats have never won when they didn't have a bye (and therefore 1 home game)
Before I say any of this, they are still good enough to be a dynasty. Maybe just 4 superbowls instead of 5 or something I don't know. I have to spend pointless time on useless mazes first to see

For the fuck of it, I ran through the scenarios of the seasons they went to the Bowl to see if a tougher division would have impacted them. I find this very interesting and if you feel like a complete rabbit hole, this is for you. I saw the NFC eas thrown around so I will use them. For less being left opinion, I kept the Pats in the "AFC EAST" and move the Eagles, Cowboys and Giants into there division and sub out the trash NY teams and the legendary average dolph fish. It is about divisions not conferences. Why not the Redskins? Because Fuck them, there dumb owner, and this is my write. The Super Bowl itself doesn't matter as the results wouldn't be impacted by a division change. It's a vacuum so I am not going to change the opponents of every other team.

Starting with 2001, it only gets a part run down because of the confusion division format. But it wouldn't have changed anything. The East was great that year and both the Jets and Fins made the playoffs and the Patriots killed everyone. Nothing Changes.

2003. The pats were dominate, going 14-2 after opening with a 31-0 loss to the Bills.
5-1 Div with 1 loss to the Bills above
Others: Eagles were great, Boys pretty good, Giants trash
Basis: This was easy, as they played that division that year, destroying them all. For the sake of it, the Eagles started off bad but got it together. Say the Pats come in later that year and lose. They sweep the rest.
Verdict: Nothing Changes. They stay 14-2 and win it all.

2004: Yuck. Dominate again. 14-2
5-1 Div with 1 loss @ Miami (lol)
Eagles: Amazing. Everyone else sucked.
Basis. They would have beat on the 6-10 Giants and Cowboys no question. I have them splitting with the Super Bowl runner ups again.
Verdict: Nothing Changes again. 14-2 still. Division didn't matter.

2007: 16-0
6-0 Div
Boys and Giants were pretty good.
Basis: They probably drop a game or two breaking the perfect season and end 14-2 at worst. I'll say 15-0 because this team was magic
Verdict: Nothing Changes. They beat the Colts in the regular season, so they would have had to lose 4 division games to matter, which wouldn't happen.
2011: Lost in Super Bowl, 13-3 in the regular season
5-1 in division as the everyone else was meh.
Everyone in the division besides the Giants was meh who even in the rg were meh at 9-7
Basis: They go 5-1 in the division losing to maybe the Giants in NY. Everyone else sucked.
Playing the division they drop a random game to say the eagles, there now rivals. They got 4-2 in the division with a 12-4 record (this one was hell to calculate) so they tie the... RAVENS. We both would be 9-3 in the conference at that point. Our strength of victory was a full .05 higher, meaning we take the 1 seed over them.
Verdict: It finally matters! They lose to us at the Bank when reliable WR Lee Evans makes a good catch in his end zone / or Billy converts on the field he became a probowler at!
So they still lose, just in the Championship game not the Bowl. (and we don't get Tucker)

2014: 16-0
4-2 in the division.
Basis: Doesn't matter again. The cowboys and Eagles both steal 1 game but they finish the same.
Verdict: They win the Super Bowl again beating us with there damn deflated footballs.

2015:
You guys will love this.
12-4
Div: 4-2
The NFC east was awful that year, and no one deserved to win it.
Basis: The Patriots went 4-2 in the division being knocked off twice at the end of the year to win the division. Here, they take care of there shit below 500 teams and finish 13-3. That is enough to win the AFC Championship game they just barely lost as he gets the Broncos at home.
Verdict: They pick up another Super Bowl as the Jets Fitzmagic isn't enough. I have no doubt they pick apart the cocky panthers as that team was all swag. NFC Steelers.

2016 They killed everyone on Brady's revenge as they went 14-2
5-1 in the Division (Lost without Brady)
The East was very good and the Boys and Giants both finished 11+ wins.
Basis: Let's go disaster mode and say somehow the Boys and Giants Both sweep the Pats and they go 2-4 in the division. The steelers are still coming to FOX in the Championship game
Verdict: Once again. No change. Superbowl winners.

2017:
13-3
5-1 in div.
Eagles were good Obviously. everyone else was meh.
Basis: They would likely finish the same in the regular season with one loss to the Eagles. This is a year that matters less because it doesn't impact there Super Bowl standings anyway.
Verdict: they lose in the Super Bowl again as me and my friends scream FYTB and do the Foles clap.


Obviously that is all super subjective and there are way to many things to play into it. The argument that a different division destroys there dynasty is confirmed as insane @DeVito52
I think my math was extremely fair and reasonable, giving them +1 or -1 games just to keep things interesting. The truth is, it's the dominance against the rest of the league and the ability to lock a 1 seed that makes them what they are, not beating up on the shit teams that every division has at one point or another.
I still hate the Pats, but unlike the Steelers I can respect them.

Ironic. Changing divisions only allows them to avoid Fitzmagic and finish with 6 rings instead of 5. LOL

 

[rossihunter2]

Yeah exactly, rivalries aren't made simply due to being a division. Rivalries are made to close proximity and hatred for the city and fanbase etc. As I mentioned, if you look at the english premier league theres pretty much a rivalry between every team. I don't feel a real rivalry between the pats and dolphins, or the ravens and browns or the buccaneers and saints.

yeah no matter league position, derbies are always a big deal - Liverpool-Everton, Man City-Man UTD, Chelsea-Tottenham-Arsenal-(all London teams), Newcastle-Sunderland, Portsmouth-Southhampton, Birmingham-West-Brom-Aston Villa, Swansea-Cardiff

it literally doesn't matter how good or bad your year is those games are always huge

 

[rossihunter2]

Lol you may not feel a rivalry between pats and dolphins, but I have a TON of family and friends who are phins fans and I’ve never met a phins fan who doesn’t have a very harsh hatred for the pats

rivalries are 2 way things - yes the dolphins occasionally beat the pats but they've not been a threat to the division in the last decade and a half really

 

[Tank]

I feel the only argument that could be made for this, I am pretty sure the Pats have never won when they didn't have a bye (and therefore 1 home game)
Before I say any of this, they are still good enough to be a dynasty. Maybe just 4 superbowls instead of 5 or something I don't know. I have to spend pointless time on useless mazes first to see

For the fuck of it, I ran through the scenarios of the seasons they went to the Bowl to see if a tougher division would have impacted them. I find this very interesting and if you feel like a complete rabbit hole, this is for you. I saw the NFC eas thrown around so I will use them. For less being left opinion, I kept the Pats in the "AFC EAST" and move the Eagles, Cowboys and Giants into there division and sub out the trash NY teams and the legendary average dolph fish. It is about divisions not conferences. Why not the Redskins? Because Fuck them, there dumb owner, and this is my write. The Super Bowl itself doesn't matter as the results wouldn't be impacted by a division change. It's a vacuum so I am not going to change the opponents of every other team.

Starting with 2001, it only gets a part run down because of the confusion division format. But it wouldn't have changed anything. The East was great that year and both the Jets and Fins made the playoffs and the Patriots killed everyone. Nothing Changes.

2003. The pats were dominate, going 14-2 after opening with a 31-0 loss to the Bills.
5-1 Div with 1 loss to the Bills above
Others: Eagles were great, Boys pretty good, Giants trash
Basis: This was easy, as they played that division that year, destroying them all. For the sake of it, the Eagles started off bad but got it together. Say the Pats come in later that year and lose. They sweep the rest.
Verdict: Nothing Changes. They stay 14-2 and win it all.

2004: Yuck. Dominate again. 14-2
5-1 Div with 1 loss @ Miami (lol)
Eagles: Amazing. Everyone else sucked.
Basis. They would have beat on the 6-10 Giants and Cowboys no question. I have them splitting with the Super Bowl runner ups again.
Verdict: Nothing Changes again. 14-2 still. Division didn't matter.

2007: 16-0
6-0 Div
Boys and Giants were pretty good.
Basis: They probably drop a game or two breaking the perfect season and end 14-2 at worst. I'll say 15-0 because this team was magic
Verdict: Nothing Changes. They beat the Colts in the regular season, so they would have had to lose 4 division games to matter, which wouldn't happen.
2011: Lost in Super Bowl, 13-3 in the regular season
5-1 in division as the everyone else was meh.
Everyone in the division besides the Giants was meh who even in the rg were meh at 9-7
Basis: They go 5-1 in the division losing to maybe the Giants in NY. Everyone else sucked.
Playing the division they drop a random game to say the eagles, there now rivals. They got 4-2 in the division with a 12-4 record (this one was hell to calculate) so they tie the... RAVENS. We both would be 9-3 in the conference at that point. Our strength of victory was a full .05 higher, meaning we take the 1 seed over them.
Verdict: It finally matters! They lose to us at the Bank when reliable WR Lee Evans makes a good catch in his end zone / or Billy converts on the field he became a probowler at!
So they still lose, just in the Championship game not the Bowl. (and we don't get Tucker)

2014: 16-0
4-2 in the division.
Basis: Doesn't matter again. The cowboys and Eagles both steal 1 game but they finish the same.
Verdict: They win the Super Bowl again beating us with there damn deflated footballs.

2015:
You guys will love this.
12-4
Div: 4-2
The NFC east was awful that year, and no one deserved to win it.
Basis: The Patriots went 4-2 in the division being knocked off twice at the end of the year to win the division. Here, they take care of there shit below 500 teams and finish 13-3. That is enough to win the AFC Championship game they just barely lost as he gets the Broncos at home.
Verdict: They pick up another Super Bowl as the Jets Fitzmagic isn't enough. I have no doubt they pick apart the cocky panthers as that team was all swag. NFC Steelers.

2016 They killed everyone on Brady's revenge as they went 14-2
5-1 in the Division (Lost without Brady)
The East was very good and the Boys and Giants both finished 11+ wins.
Basis: Let's go disaster mode and say somehow the Boys and Giants Both sweep the Pats and they go 2-4 in the division. The steelers are still coming to FOX in the Championship game
Verdict: Once again. No change. Superbowl winners.

2017:
13-3
5-1 in div.
Eagles were good Obviously. everyone else was meh.
Basis: They would likely finish the same in the regular season with one loss to the Eagles. This is a year that matters less because it doesn't impact there Super Bowl standings anyway.
Verdict: they lose in the Super Bowl again as me and my friends scream FYTB and do the Foles clap.


Obviously that is all super subjective and there are way to many things to play into it. The argument that a different division destroys there dynasty is confirmed as insane @DeVito52
I think my math was extremely fair and reasonable, giving them +1 or -1 games just to keep things interesting. The truth is, it's the dominance against the rest of the league and the ability to lock a 1 seed that makes them what they are, not beating up on the shit teams that every division has at one point or another.
I still hate the Pats, but unlike the Steelers I can respect them.

Ironic. Changing divisions only allows them to avoid Fitzmagic and finish with 6 rings instead of 5. LOL

Could you redo this please using the the AFC North instead of NFC East? lol jk

Realizing this comparative win/loss analysis is one of the few ways for you to mathematically make the comparison but it doesn’t take into account level of effort needed or wear and tear on the team’s players in those 6 games which could adversely affect play in other games on the schedule.

Just thinking out loud but it would be interesting to me to look at a comparison of some defensive stats like maybe QB sacks and pressures and see how that shakes out between divisions.

 

[Tank]

yeah no matter league position, derbies are always a big deal - Liverpool-Everton, Man City-Man UTD, Chelsea-Tottenham-Arsenal-(all London teams), Newcastle-Sunderland, Portsmouth-Southhampton, Birmingham-West-Brom-Aston Villa, Swansea-Cardiff

it literally doesn't matter how good or bad your year is those games are always huge

Yeah, I love watching the UK soccer derbies on TV. It could probably be just as entertaining to have cameras trained on the stands rather than the pitch. lol

TBF these rivalries are driven more by geography and fan culture than American football rivalries.

 

[rossihunter2]

Yeah, I love watching the UK soccer derbies on TV. It could probably be just as entertaining to have cameras trained on the stands rather than the pitch. lol

TBF these rivalries are driven more by geography and fan culture than American football rivalries.

that's my point - they're a little bit more natural in terms of rivalry development - and you get non-geographical rivalries based on significant events between two teams -

 

[Tank]

that's my point - they're a little bit more natural in terms of rivalry development - and you get non-geographical rivalries based on significant events between two teams -

Yep. lol...... all of the teams are in an area about the size of New York State.

 

[Tank]

Owners are far more likely to give up because of the lack of success that is made impossible by Brady and Bill and move onto a new option as they fail year after year. It doesn't matter regardless, I've been working on something for the last hour and spoiler, the weak division means nothing to the Patriots success.

lol.....I can’t buy into the notion that the owners of the Bills, Jets and Fins have given up because they are in division with the patsies. Really? c’mon man.

 

[RavensMania]

The funny thing with that is, the browns never got closer to be nfl champs til just before they moved, because a few years later some of the core pieces on that team would make the ravens have that beastly 2000 defense. Cleveland are just a team of sadness

They won a ton a championships before the merger