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Signings, Cuts, Trades

Well, the line would be you have a criminal justice system who is responsible for adjudicating these things, and a private business that runs an NFL team has no moral obligation to arbitrary enforce "the law" as they see fit.

It's never been a logical stance to suggest the private businesses should just arbitrary enforce the public's hypocritical morality.

And by the way... to support the Ravens is to support the Browns. It's all one big pot of money that they're all dipping from. The general public is no more or less complicit than the Browns, Texans, or anybody else is.
It seems to me you have a very blinkered way of thinking. Football isn't just a sport for entertainment, it makes every effort to try to improve society with its various programs. They understand that without taking a positive stand on societal issues, they could end up becoming the WWF. This is a serious sport, that takes such issues seriously. Why else would they have the Rooney rule? Why else would every team you can think of have programs where their players and the team officials participate in uplifting community programs?

Arbitrarily enforce the law? Nobody expects them to enforce any law. We have a Justice system for that, don't we? We expect the NFL (based on their own actions societally speaking), to promote the good in society and tamp down the bad. That is exactly what they've done with the personal conduct policy. If you were in charge, there perhaps would be no such policy because you'd make the NFL just a morally void sport.

I get that the NFL is a private enterprise. However, this enterprise wholly depends on society for its income. It is in their best interests (based on every action they take morally speaking), to be involved in the upkeep of its players living up to the high standards of society. Why? Simply because they tend to be role models for the young people across this country. They do have a moral obligation in this instance, the Browns being a private enterprise notwithstanding. Heck, even several private enterprises take morality among their employees quite seriously. That does have an effect on how they're perceived by society as an organization. Why? Because those very people tend to make them profitable or not. They trade their stocks on the stock market too and their market capitalization depends on how they're perceived by regular people,

As for supporting the Ravens being the same as supporting the Browns, I vehemently disagree. This is not about supporting a football franchise. It is bigger than that in this instance. I get the economics of the NFL, the pot sharing bit too. However, don't forget the possibility that if there is a franchise that tends to upset the apple cart, the other owners have several ways to amend the situation to their satisfaction. Such as forcing this crook of an owner to sell his team. As long as the majority of owners are not crooked, he can be removed from participating in that big pot of money you so eloquently spoke of.

I am sorry but I do not accept your response at all.
 
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It seems to me you have a very blinkered way of thinking. Football isn't just a sport for entertainment, it makes every effort to try to improve society with its various programs. They understand that without taking a positive stand on societal issues, they could end up becoming the WWF. This is a serious sport, that takes such issues seriously. Why else would they have the Rooney rule? Why else would every team you can think of have programs where their players and the team officials participate in uplifting community programs?

Arbitrarily enforce the law? Nobody expects them to enforce any law. We have a Justice system for that, don't we? We expect the NFL (based on their own actions societally speaking), to promote the good in society and tamp down the bad. That is exactly what they've done with the personal conduct policy. If you were in charge, there perhaps would be no such policy because you'd make the NFL just a morally void sport.

I get that the NFL is a private enterprise. However, this enterprise wholly depends on society for its income. It is in their best interests (based on every action they take morally speaking), to be involved in the upkeep of its players living up to the high standards of society. Why? Simply because they tend to be role models for the young people across this country. They do have a moral obligation in this instance, the Browns being a private enterprise notwithstanding. Heck, even several private enterprises take morality among their employees quite seriously. That does have an effect on how they're perceived by society as an organization. Why? Because those very people tend to make them profitable or not. They trade their stocks on the stock market too and their market capitalization depends on how they're perceived by regular people,

As for supporting the Ravens being the same as supporting the Browns, I vehemently disagree. This is not about supporting a football franchise. It is bigger than that in this instance. I get the economics of the NFL, the pot sharing bit too. However, don't forget the possibility that if there is a franchise that tends to upset the apple cart, the other owners have several ways to amend the situation to their satisfaction. Such as forcing this crook of an owner to sell his team. As long as the majority of owners are not crooked, he can be removed from participating in that big pot of money you so eloquently spoke of.

I am sorry but I do not accept your response at all.
1. They take societal positions against obvious problems (like racial injustice and beating women) because a) there's no other position to take, other than being against it, and b) because it's good PR for them to do so.
Do you honestly believe the NFL gives any shits at all about solving actual societal problems? Like if I gave you a year you couldn't give me examples of them doing anything other than publicly supporting obvious positions so that they're perceived to be caring.
It's almost impossible to argue they care about the health and safety of their own employees. Literally. And you naively think that social injustice is an actual priority for the NFL, the entity? LOL. It must be nice to live in that fantasy land.

You mentioned the Rooney Rule. It's a total joke. Even black people have publicly said its a joke. The Rooney Rule exists so that it APPEARS they're making an effort to have a level playing field of hiring. APPEARS being the key word. Not actually doing it, but just appearing to be doing it.

2. LOL, the personal conduct policy? Have you actually read the personal conduct policy? It covers practically nothing that doesn't involve on-field performance. Why do you think everybody mocks them for their weak-ass stances and positions on domestic violence, child abuse, and crime in general. Name for me a punishment the NFL has levied in the name of "promoting positive societal structure" that makes an ounce of sense to you. They blackball players for kneeling for the flag and for being chronic marijuana users, who use for pain management instead of popping opioids (that NFL doctors promote), and they give fractional season suspensions to women beaters, child abusers, and all around just terrible human beings.

THAT personal conduct policy? LOL.

If I were in charge, I'd have a policy that actually meant something, and not one that's just looking like we're just trying to stay out of the media spotlight.

3. The NFL doesn't care if it's players are role models... not their problem. That's on the parents of young children who allow total strangers that they'll never know be role models in their lives. The closest most people will ever get to a pro athlete is via the TV screen, and they're your role models? LOL. Talk about bad parenting 101.
You want to fix some societal problems? How about parents try being role models for a change, and stop outsourcing it to people that neither the parent nor the child will ever know personally. Just because they can throw TD passes and give a good sound bite doesn't make them a great person.
Some of the biggest role models on this planet commit adultery frequently. They frequent strip clubs, do drugs, and commit crimes. Why are you looking up to them?

4. You keep talking about the fans being the one's driving the business, and you're right. Problem is... fans don't give a shit if Watson is a serial rapist or not. Not a single action you've ever seen from a fan gives you any indication whatsoever that they give a shit. All they do is talk. Yack, yack, yack. Watson isn't the first person to do this. Domestic violence isn't new to the NFL. Ray Rice didn't kill the NFL. Neither did Tyreke Hill or Adrian Peterson or any of the other lengthy list of "role models" who commit crimes, publicly. You know what fans did about it? Bitched about it on social media, then tuned in Sunday. Same bat time, same bat channel.

And the NFL knows this. They've been calling bluffs for decades, and making bank while doing it.

5. If you think the Browns owner trading for Deshaun Watson is anywhere near the stratosphere of "upsetting the apple cart" to the point when owners would even entertain the possibility of him selling, you're delusional. The NFL approved the trade. They have no issue with it whatsoever. If he's going to be forced to sell, he better do a hell of a lot worse than trade for a player with civil sexual assault claims against him.

They didn't force Dan Snyder to sell, and all he did was oversee a corporate-wide culture of this stuff. I doubt they even force to Stephen Ross to sell for potentially trying to throw games.

The only thing that's making an Owner sell these days is to be a racist, and that's because it's something the majority of fans, coaches, and employees actually don't tolerate.

You don't have to accept any response from me. But my response is the same one the NFL's been showing you (via actions) for decades. So as long as you continue to support the NFL, it's pretty clear you continue to accept their response, via your actions.
 
1. They take societal positions against obvious problems (like racial injustice and beating women) because a) there's no other position to take, other than being against it, and b) because it's good PR for them to do so.
Do you honestly believe the NFL gives any shits at all about solving actual societal problems? Like if I gave you a year you couldn't give me examples of them doing anything other than publicly supporting obvious positions so that they're perceived to be caring.
It's almost impossible to argue they care about the health and safety of their own employees. Literally. And you naively think that social injustice is an actual priority for the NFL, the entity? LOL. It must be nice to live in that fantasy land.

You mentioned the Rooney Rule. It's a total joke. Even black people have publicly said its a joke. The Rooney Rule exists so that it APPEARS they're making an effort to have a level playing field of hiring. APPEARS being the key word. Not actually doing it, but just appearing to be doing it.

2. LOL, the personal conduct policy? Have you actually read the personal conduct policy? It covers practically nothing that doesn't involve on-field performance. Why do you think everybody mocks them for their weak-ass stances and positions on domestic violence, child abuse, and crime in general. Name for me a punishment the NFL has levied in the name of "promoting positive societal structure" that makes an ounce of sense to you. They blackball players for kneeling for the flag and for being chronic marijuana users, who use for pain management instead of popping opioids (that NFL doctors promote), and they give fractional season suspensions to women beaters, child abusers, and all around just terrible human beings.

THAT personal conduct policy? LOL.

If I were in charge, I'd have a policy that actually meant something, and not one that's just looking like we're just trying to stay out of the media spotlight.

3. The NFL doesn't care if it's players are role models... not their problem. That's on the parents of young children who allow total strangers that they'll never know be role models in their lives. The closest most people will ever get to a pro athlete is via the TV screen, and they're your role models? LOL. Talk about bad parenting 101.
You want to fix some societal problems? How about parents try being role models for a change, and stop outsourcing it to people that neither the parent nor the child will ever know personally. Just because they can throw TD passes and give a good sound bite doesn't make them a great person.
Some of the biggest role models on this planet commit adultery frequently. They frequent strip clubs, do drugs, and commit crimes. Why are you looking up to them?

4. You keep talking about the fans being the one's driving the business, and you're right. Problem is... fans don't give a shit if Watson is a serial rapist or not. Not a single action you've ever seen from a fan gives you any indication whatsoever that they give a shit. All they do is talk. Yack, yack, yack. Watson isn't the first person to do this. Domestic violence isn't new to the NFL. Ray Rice didn't kill the NFL. Neither did Tyreke Hill or Adrian Peterson or any of the other lengthy list of "role models" who commit crimes, publicly. You know what fans did about it? Bitched about it on social media, then tuned in Sunday. Same bat time, same bat channel.

And the NFL knows this. They've been calling bluffs for decades, and making bank while doing it.

5. If you think the Browns owner trading for Deshaun Watson is anywhere near the stratosphere of "upsetting the apple cart" to the point when owners would even entertain the possibility of him selling, you're delusional. The NFL approved the trade. They have no issue with it whatsoever. If he's going to be forced to sell, he better do a hell of a lot worse than trade for a player with civil sexual assault claims against him.

They didn't force Dan Snyder to sell, and all he did was oversee a corporate-wide culture of this stuff. I doubt they even force to Stephen Ross to sell for potentially trying to throw games.

The only thing that's making an Owner sell these days is to be a racist, and that's because it's something the majority of fans, coaches, and employees actually don't tolerate.

You don't have to accept any response from me. But my response is the same one the NFL's been showing you (via actions) for decades. So as long as you continue to support the NFL, it's pretty clear you continue to accept their response, via your actions.
You are hyper cynical my friend. It's fine but why? I'm going to refrain from engaging in a back and forth because your views seem pretty dug in as are mine. Non-productive banter is just that. Non-productive banter and from my perspective not worth indulging in.
 
Where the fuck is Tretter or Wagner or whatever other acquisition that might be tight af??
Other than personally wanting there to be news, what's the rush? The market is basically silent right now while some teams still figure out some of the bigger names (e.g. Armstead). No reason to jump into anything. Prices are going to fall day by day.
 
1. They take societal positions against obvious problems (like racial injustice and beating women) because a) there's no other position to take, other than being against it, and b) because it's good PR for them to do so.
Do you honestly believe the NFL gives any shits at all about solving actual societal problems? Like if I gave you a year you couldn't give me examples of them doing anything other than publicly supporting obvious positions so that they're perceived to be caring.
It's almost impossible to argue they care about the health and safety of their own employees. Literally. And you naively think that social injustice is an actual priority for the NFL, the entity? LOL. It must be nice to live in that fantasy land.

You mentioned the Rooney Rule. It's a total joke. Even black people have publicly said its a joke. The Rooney Rule exists so that it APPEARS they're making an effort to have a level playing field of hiring. APPEARS being the key word. Not actually doing it, but just appearing to be doing it.

2. LOL, the personal conduct policy? Have you actually read the personal conduct policy? It covers practically nothing that doesn't involve on-field performance. Why do you think everybody mocks them for their weak-ass stances and positions on domestic violence, child abuse, and crime in general. Name for me a punishment the NFL has levied in the name of "promoting positive societal structure" that makes an ounce of sense to you. They blackball players for kneeling for the flag and for being chronic marijuana users, who use for pain management instead of popping opioids (that NFL doctors promote), and they give fractional season suspensions to women beaters, child abusers, and all around just terrible human beings.

THAT personal conduct policy? LOL.

If I were in charge, I'd have a policy that actually meant something, and not one that's just looking like we're just trying to stay out of the media spotlight.

3. The NFL doesn't care if it's players are role models... not their problem. That's on the parents of young children who allow total strangers that they'll never know be role models in their lives. The closest most people will ever get to a pro athlete is via the TV screen, and they're your role models? LOL. Talk about bad parenting 101.
You want to fix some societal problems? How about parents try being role models for a change, and stop outsourcing it to people that neither the parent nor the child will ever know personally. Just because they can throw TD passes and give a good sound bite doesn't make them a great person.
Some of the biggest role models on this planet commit adultery frequently. They frequent strip clubs, do drugs, and commit crimes. Why are you looking up to them?

4. You keep talking about the fans being the one's driving the business, and you're right. Problem is... fans don't give a shit if Watson is a serial rapist or not. Not a single action you've ever seen from a fan gives you any indication whatsoever that they give a shit. All they do is talk. Yack, yack, yack. Watson isn't the first person to do this. Domestic violence isn't new to the NFL. Ray Rice didn't kill the NFL. Neither did Tyreke Hill or Adrian Peterson or any of the other lengthy list of "role models" who commit crimes, publicly. You know what fans did about it? Bitched about it on social media, then tuned in Sunday. Same bat time, same bat channel.

And the NFL knows this. They've been calling bluffs for decades, and making bank while doing it.

5. If you think the Browns owner trading for Deshaun Watson is anywhere near the stratosphere of "upsetting the apple cart" to the point when owners would even entertain the possibility of him selling, you're delusional. The NFL approved the trade. They have no issue with it whatsoever. If he's going to be forced to sell, he better do a hell of a lot worse than trade for a player with civil sexual assault claims against him.

They didn't force Dan Snyder to sell, and all he did was oversee a corporate-wide culture of this stuff. I doubt they even force to Stephen Ross to sell for potentially trying to throw games.

The only thing that's making an Owner sell these days is to be a racist, and that's because it's something the majority of fans, coaches, and employees actually don't tolerate.

You don't have to accept any response from me. But my response is the same one the NFL's been showing you (via actions) for decades. So as long as you continue to support the NFL, it's pretty clear you continue to accept their response, via your actions.
Thank you cause I wasn't typing this out. If anyone thinks the majority or the faces/execs repping the NFL aren't out for more than money I don't know what to tell you. Not to say there aren't people who want actual change, but my guess is it's a minority.
 
Other than personally wanting there to be news, what's the rush? The market is basically silent right now while some teams still figure out some of the bigger names (e.g. Armstead). No reason to jump into anything. Prices are going to fall day by day.
Well personally wanting there to be news is precisely why the rush
 


There’s only 2 guys on this list I want.

Gimme CC and JC baby!!!




That’s right. Calais and Jadeveon needs to be ravens!

Tretter and Wagner before the draft and I’ll be happy. Also, where’s Z on his list? Lol
 


Apparently Z’e agent is from Baltimore. I wonder who else this agent represents from us. Gotta burn a bridge from this mess lol



So his agent potentially screwed him out of a deal? Like I totally get him wanting to pull out and want more money based on Miller's & Jones' contract but to pull out of this deal then there be no deals has to suck for ZDS. Again, back injuries and only playing one game all of last season, did his agent really think that wouldn't come into play? Feel bad that ZDS seems to be getting bad advice, be it his agent, family or whoever.
 
Thank you cause I wasn't typing this out. If anyone thinks the majority or the faces/execs repping the NFL aren't out for more than money I don't know what to tell you. Not to say there aren't people who want actual change, but my guess is it's a minority.

Man I kickstarted one heck of a debate before I went to work today.

I completely agree with you that owners are largely out for making more money (obviously there are a few exceptions because they are people and so they are not a hivemind) and part of ensuring the gravy train keeps is rolling is protecting their public image. This is why they have what is honestly a pretty standard policy for a lot of companies (certainly when you get to to the upper tiers it is VERY common) where if you are involved in something that casts the company in a negative light you are liable to punished by penalties that include termination (obviously the NFL would not go that far).

Now there is a distinction to be drawn here that is subtle but important because Deshaun Watson is 100% involved in something that casts the NFL in a negative light which would be the civil lawsuit. The distinction here it is not the actual sexual assault that is the direct thing that would fall under that umbrella but the civil suit for that which does hurt the brand which he is involved in. While you do have a he said-22x(she said) for which one can argue their innocence, what you cannot argue is that he is in a lawsuit which is what the NFL will use and they have to because they will not risk looking weak on this which harms the brand and harms future profits.
 
So his agent potentially screwed him out of a deal? Like I totally get him wanting to pull out and want more money based on Miller's & Jones' contract but to pull out of this deal then there be no deals has to suck for ZDS. Again, back injuries and only playing one game all of last season, did his agent really think that wouldn't come into play? Feel bad that ZDS seems to be getting bad advice, be it his agent, family or whoever.

Technically he played 2 games last season. He also played the playoff game and got a sack which showed that ZDS was healthy. Quite frankly the fact that he even took the Ravens offer is insane. If you told me signed here for 4 years 52 with incentives that could bring it up to 60 I would think THAT is a great deal for the Ravens and he was far less than that.
 
You are hyper cynical my friend. It's fine but why? I'm going to refrain from engaging in a back and forth because your views seem pretty dug in as are mine. Non-productive banter is just that. Non-productive banter and from my perspective not worth indulging in.
Is it being cynical, or realistic? Again, focus on what people do, not what they say. It'll tell you everything about their intentions...
 
Man I kickstarted one heck of a debate before I went to work today.

I completely agree with you that owners are largely out for making more money (obviously there are a few exceptions because they are people and so they are not a hivemind) and part of ensuring the gravy train keeps is rolling is protecting their public image. This is why they have what is honestly a pretty standard policy for a lot of companies (certainly when you get to to the upper tiers it is VERY common) where if you are involved in something that casts the company in a negative light you are liable to punished by penalties that include termination (obviously the NFL would not go that far).

Now there is a distinction to be drawn here that is subtle but important because Deshaun Watson is 100% involved in something that casts the NFL in a negative light which would be the civil lawsuit. The distinction here it is not the actual sexual assault that is the direct thing that would fall under that umbrella but the civil suit for that which does hurt the brand which he is involved in. While you do have a he said-22x(she said) for which one can argue their innocence, what you cannot argue is that he is in a lawsuit which is what the NFL will use and they have to because they will not risk looking weak on this which harms the brand and harms future profits.
Right, but "looking weak" won't involve blackballing the player. It involves doing precisely what they've done. They pulled him off the field, paid him, and will give him some sort of moderate suspension this year.

And once that's all over, none of the fans will care anymore. Or let me rephrase... care enough to do anything but bitch on social media about it.

The people expecting more from a business, and thinking they should uphold some arbitrary moral standard that makes everybody happy, are the one's being unrealistic. They can take that position, because they'll never be in that position.
 
Ok new week! Here comes phase 2 or 3 depending on how you want to call it.

Interesting guys that are left for the Ravens:

JC Tretter
Zadarius Smith (very surprised there wasn't a deal with the cowboys last week)
Calais Campbell
Geno Atkins
Melvin Ingram
Justin Houston

Anyone want to add anyone to the list?
 
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