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The 2022 Offseason Thread

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Basically, yes.
I mean 2018 is kind of a throw away obviously, because we basically didn't pass at all and everybody knew it. We played a team we'd already played who realized we couldn't pass, and they beat us.
2019 was basically just dropped passes, bad pass protection, and sloppy turnovers. Did you actually watch that game? I've yet to see anybody actually think that game was a "Roman" problem. Roman doesn't drop passes, make errant throws, or miss blocking assignments badly.
2020 I can sort of get behind the idea of a bad gameplan, except I really can't fault them for doing anything differently than what I would have done.

So yes, you can lose three playoff games in three consecutive years and obviously not have it be the same problem. We were good in 2018, 2019 and 2020, but we were never like unbeatable. It's not like every single week were just bulldozing people at will. Especially not in 2020.
2019 we kinda did bulldoze most teams at will though. The season actually got boring at times because it felt like we had no tense games except for Seattle, SF, Pitt, buf, and to a lesser degree NE.

I agree with all you’re saying though, just wanted to bring that up lol
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
2019 we kinda did bulldoze most teams at will though. The season actually got boring at times because it felt like we had no tense games except for Seattle, SF, Pitt, buf, and to a lesser degree NE.

I agree with all you’re saying though, just wanted to bring that up lol
LOL, right but that's like a quarter of the season. We scored a lot of points against a lot of teams, but there were obviously games we lost and there were games where we didn't just dominate and had to win close games.

2019 is kind of the outlier because the offense we saw in the playoffs looked nothing like the offense we did the whole season, hence the issue. Just overall sloppy execution by pretty much all parties.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
LOL, right but that's like a quarter of the season. We scored a lot of points against a lot of teams, but there were obviously games we lost and there were games where we didn't just dominate and had to win close games.

2019 is kind of the outlier because the offense we saw in the playoffs looked nothing like the offense we did the whole season, hence the issue. Just overall sloppy execution by pretty much all parties.
how many teams just bulldoze all of their opponents. Even the Patriots had a quarter of the season that were close games back in their unbeaten season. They played close games against the Colts / Eagles / Ravens / Giants and to a lesser extent the Jets. They did win all of those games.

We didn't lose a game after week 4 and most of the games were pretty easily won. Anyway, getting off topic though. I didn't have an issue with the way the offense played as a whole against the Titans in 2019 as we put up a ton of yards, however yards doesn't win football games and it came down to execution and about 7 drops.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
So in all examples, stuff just went bad for us? I mean it worked well in regular season yet come playoff time it doesnt work in all 3 games? That titans game was literally garbage yards by the way. Unless our defense plays lights out, im expecting the same results as previous years

garbage yards in the sense that they didnt turn into points
not garbage yards in the sense that they happened at the end of the game when the game was over already
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
First titans game we didn't score touchdowns and we didn't convert 4th downs. Probably largely on the players not GRo.

Second titans game, that game was awful to watch. Probably bad on players and GRo. No excuse for this one. They just were bad.

Bill's game, the weather made both teams awful.

if we're levying criticism at GRo, I definitely think it's worth pointing out that i can't think of any play-call or play-design in particular across those 3 games that i felt was indicative of a failing by him as a coordinator/play-caller - im sure there are things i'd look back on and wonder why he called that play then, but nothing that feels egregious - when i think of those playoff games and those losses i mostly just remember mistakes made by players in unfortunate spots...

i remember the 2 failed 4th downs early in the first titans game, i remember the seth roberts drop on a maybe long TD but at least a long 1st down conversion, i remember the derrick henry TD pass

i remember in both Titans games, the sudden knowledge of just how good Jeffery Simmons was after barely hearing about him during the regular season since he was drafted

in the bills game i remember the botched snap and the concussion, the wind, the missed JK Dobbins block for the would-be Hollywood tying TD, the INT the next play where lamar just didn't see the slot corner

none of those plays are seemingly related to execution at all or even the play-call - in fact some of them seem like genuinely good playcalls that would have, but for poor execution, have dramatically changed the outcomes of those games
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
2019 we kinda did bulldoze most teams at will though. The season actually got boring at times because it felt like we had no tense games except for Seattle, SF, Pitt, buf, and to a lesser degree NE.

I agree with all you’re saying though, just wanted to bring that up lol

and to further your point lol the games we lost didnt have much tension either - you could tell we were losing and weren't going to change - the complete opposite of 2021 where it felt like no matter what happened in the first 3 quarters, the 4th quarter was going to be a 1 score game at some point
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
LOL, right but that's like a quarter of the season. We scored a lot of points against a lot of teams, but there were obviously games we lost and there were games where we didn't just dominate and had to win close games.

2019 is kind of the outlier because the offense we saw in the playoffs looked nothing like the offense we did the whole season, hence the issue. Just overall sloppy execution by pretty much all parties.
If you bulldoze half the teams on the schedule, which is probably a reasonable estimate, I’d say that’s a season where you just roll over the competition, because in the nfl that just doesn’t usually happen
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
and to further your point lol the games we lost didnt have much tension either - you could tell we were losing and weren't going to change - the complete opposite of 2021 where it felt like no matter what happened in the first 3 quarters, the 4th quarter was going to be a 1 score game at some point
Yeah I left those games out for that reason lol, the browns game lost all the tension by the fourth(although it was a closely contested game for a while until the browns just up and outta nowhere lit us up) and the KC game was more us trying to comeback the whole second half and getting close, but neither game felt like a win going into the fourth
 

Deebo813

Hall of Famer
Basically, yes.
I mean 2018 is kind of a throw away obviously, because we basically didn't pass at all and everybody knew it. We played a team we'd already played who realized we couldn't pass, and they beat us.
2019 was basically just dropped passes, bad pass protection, and sloppy turnovers. Did you actually watch that game? I've yet to see anybody actually think that game was a "Roman" problem. Roman doesn't drop passes, make errant throws, or miss blocking assignments badly.
2020 I can sort of get behind the idea of a bad gameplan, except I really can't fault them for doing anything differently than what I would have done.

So yes, you can lose three playoff games in three consecutive years and obviously not have it be the same problem. We were good in 2018, 2019 and 2020, but we were never like unbeatable. It's not like every single week were just bulldozing people at will. Especially not in 2020.
Having hollywood was the only way i could see our offense actually looking like something this season.. him leaving made our offense that much easier to defend imo so i dnt really see much changing this year…
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
Having hollywood was the only way i could see our offense actually looking like something this season.. him leaving made our offense that much easier to defend imo so i dnt really see much changing this year…
in 2019 our receivers weren't much and all we had were Hollywood, Andrews, Snead and Roberts. This year we have Bateman and Andrews. Bateman has the potential to be a much better and definitely more complete receiver than Hollywood and I believe Proche is better than any other #3 receiver we had back in 2019.

No question Hollywood balled out in the playoffs and did well during the season as well. I'm willing to put money on the line that Bateman will be atelast a 1k yard receiver in year two.
 

Deebo813

Hall of Famer
LOL, right but that's like a quarter of the season. We scored a lot of points against a lot of teams, but there were obviously games we lost and there were games where we didn't just dominate and had to win close games.

2019 is kind of the outlier because the offense we saw in the playoffs looked nothing like the offense we did the whole season, hence the issue. Just overall sloppy execution by pretty much all parties.
so im gonna assume every playoff game gonna be an outlier unless we dominate in it? It gets tough for teams in the playoffs for a reason.. teams play sloppy and dnt execute properly for a reason..
 

Deebo813

Hall of Famer
in 2019 our receivers weren't much and all we had was Hollywood and Andrews. This year we have Bateman and Andrews. Bateman has the potential to be a much better and definitely more complete receiver than Hollywood and I believe Proche is better than any other #3 receiver we had back in 2019.
My bad, i was saying this year as if we still had hollywood on the team.. if we had hollywood along with andrews and bateman our offense would me tough to defend.. without him though, its really gonna make things simpler for teams..
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
My bad, i was saying this year as if we still had hollywood on the team.. if we had hollywood along with andrews and bateman our offense would me tough to defend.. without him though, its really gonna make things simpler for teams..
We either have Hollywood or Linderbaum and I believe long term, Linderbaum is going to be the better player than Hollywood. BTW, I'm a big Hollywood fan. Even though I believe he will have more of an impact on this offense. It may not be as noticeable, but play recognition and his athleticism will impact us right away.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
so im gonna assume every playoff game gonna be an outlier unless we dominate in it? It gets tough for teams in the playoffs for a reason.. teams play sloppy and dnt execute properly for a reason..
Right. That's a two way street though. Buffalo was sloppy as hell against us. So was Tennessee.
They're only outliers compared to what they did in the regular season.

What I've not seen you personally do is identify what we should have done differently. Like we trucked playoff teams. So if we can't win the playoffs, why don't playoff teams routinely beat us in the regular season too? Are they just taking games off or something and setting us up for like a "gotcha" moment? LOL.
 

Deebo813

Hall of Famer
Right. That's a two way street though. Buffalo was sloppy as hell against us. So was Tennessee.
They're only outliers compared to what they did in the regular season.

What I've not seen you personally do is identify what we should have done differently. Like we trucked playoff teams. So if we can't win the playoffs, why don't playoff teams routinely beat us in the regular season too? Are they just taking games off or something and setting us up for like a "gotcha" moment? LOL.
More tape is out on you once playoffs come around so its gonna be better preparation.. shit just look at BB playoff success.. passes all year then once offs get here, he runs all fking game sometimes.. so yea i really do think sometimes hold off certain shit till offs cause BB most def does it
 

Deebo813

Hall of Famer
We either have Hollywood or Linderbaum and I believe long term, Linderbaum is going to be the better player than Hollywood. BTW, I'm a big Hollywood fan. Even though I believe he will have more of an impact on this offense. It may not be as noticeable, but play recognition and his athleticism will impact us right away.
Even if he does become a better player i mean… he a center. Imo hollywood could help us much more than linderbaum can.. even if linderbaum is an all pro this season, id much rather have hollywood on this current team
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
More tape is out on you once playoffs come around so its gonna be better preparation.. shit just look at BB playoff success.. passes all year then once offs get here, he runs all fking game sometimes.. so yea i really do think sometimes hold off certain shit till offs cause BB most def does it
Cool. Preparation isn't enough though. Execution is paramount. You honestly believe the 2019 playoff loss was about lack of preparation? It was about lack of execution. You think coaches drop up game plans for dropped passes, sloppy turnovers, and bad pass protection?

Belichick believes in matchups. He builds his team to do what your team struggles to defend. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Doesn't seem to work as much without Brady (obviously).
 

Deebo813

Hall of Famer
Cool. Preparation isn't enough though. Execution is paramount. You honestly believe the 2019 playoff loss was about lack of preparation? It was about lack of execution. You think coaches drop up game plans for dropped passes, sloppy turnovers, and bad pass protection?

Belichick believes in matchups. He builds his team to do what your team struggles to defend. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Doesn't seem to work as much without Brady (obviously).
Naw we didnt lose because of prep on our end.. titans won maybe because they prepared better and youre right, they were able to execute..i dnt remember our players dropping the ball that much until that playoff game vs titans..shit different in playoffs man. Dnt think teams just out there looking different because of a bad day.. titans made us look sloppy and made our pass protection look weak..our team was better suited to stop the run much more than kc yet kc shut henry ass down that year in offs.

. BB has built his team the same since i can remember regardless of what another team struggles to defend. rbs that can catch, tightends, slot wrs, and basically anyone on the outside lol. Defense, his secondary usually always nice and he has a few swiss army knife like guys on his front 7 every so often. Mediocre pass rush and usually a mediocre oline that plays great in his scheme….

Just watched some of it that game and smh.. those drops by snead and andrews were crazy.. although the one to andrews was pretty high.. titans looked like they knew all our 4th down calls
 
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rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Naw we didnt lose because of prep on our end.. titans won maybe because they prepared better and youre right, they were able to execute..i dnt remember our players dropping the ball that much until that playoff game vs titans..shit different in playoffs man. Dnt think teams just out there looking different because of a bad day.. titans made us look sloppy and made our pass protection look weak..our team was better suited to stop the run much more than kc yet kc shut henry ass down that year in offs.

. BB has built his team the same since i can remember regardless of what another team struggles to defend. rbs that can catch, tightends, slot wrs, and basically anyone on the outside lol. Defense, his secondary usually always nice and he has a few swiss army knife like guys on his front 7 every so often. Mediocre pass rush and usually a mediocre oline that plays great in his scheme….

Just watched some of it that game and smh.. those drops by snead and andrews were crazy.. although the one to andrews was pretty high.. titans looked like they knew all our 4th down calls
OK, but you're making my points for me. How do you prepare to not execute? Like what's Roman supposed to do differently to get receivers to catch the ball? To get Guards to execute pass protection?
If you're acknowledging the playoffs are "different", than why are we trying to build an offense for games that a) we don't know if we'll even be playing in (see last year) and b) is primarily about execution?
I don't know that Roman's "offense" can win in the playoffs, because I haven't seen the Ravens team successfully execute what he wants to do in the playoffs.

You're also making my point about Belichick. What you just described is called building a team that's versatile and isn't pigeon-holed in winning one way. He can run the ball on anybody. When he had Brady, he could obviously throw it on anybody. He looked around the league about 5 years ago and realized "hey, everybody is building great secondaries and great pass rushes", so why is he going to bother trying to load up with high end outside receivers, when every defense in the league is largely trying to build a defense to stop that? So, he doesn't. He loads up on TEs who punish linebackers, RBs who can catch, and slot receivers. And he attacks the middle of the field where most defenses are weaker.

With Brady that worked wonderfully. Without, not so much, because they're not threatening anybody in the pass game at the moment.

Historically, he's also struggled to defend Lamar-style QBs. QBs who can run, and especially, who can run the option, have been giving Bill fits for years. That's mostly because in order to defend that, he needs a linebacking and Dline core that can, and he spends most of his defensive assets on the secondary, like most teams do, because its a pass-heavy league.

End of day, building an offensive scheme that's purely designed to "win in the playoffs", to me, is totally asinine. You should build an offense to be a good offense. Home, away, playoffs, regular season. Doesn't matter. If you don't win enough between Sept-Dec, doesn't matter what you do in January, because you won't be playing. I'm not interested in having an offense that's perfect to beat KC, but ends up making us a 9-8 team. Just because a style of offense can beat specific teams doesn't mean it can beat enough teams.

And while you're certainly not the only person doing this, its extremely "odd" to be praising Belichick for his game planning and schemes, when the Ravens are, in some ways, doing exactly what he's been doing for years. Why do you think the Ravens are emphasizing the running game, TEs, etc. on offense? Because most teams aren't built to stop it. I know a LOT of teams who have secondaries that can at least slow down elite offenses. I know a lot of teams that have great pass rushes and/or a really strong secondary.
I know very few who can consistently stop the run, and I know very few who are great in coverage against TEs and inside receivers.

So do we want the Ravens to attack what other teams do poorly, or do we want them to just be like the Chiefs, the Bills, etc., who have potent passing attacks with lots of speed and lots of deep shots, but can't run the ball consistently at all and become one dimensional frequently in a big games?
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
Even if he does become a better player i mean… he a center. Imo hollywood could help us much more than linderbaum can.. even if linderbaum is an all pro this season, id much rather have hollywood on this current team
this year, that may be correct, but I'm thinking long term and we weren't going to pay Hollywood. Not after this crazy offseason.
 
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