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The Random Thought Thread

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
Thoughts on customized jerseys?

I've been rocking the same Ed Reed(06), Bart Scott(08), and Flacco (08) jerseys for a long time now. Safe to say they have seen better days. So I decided to order a new custom jersey with my last name and favorite number on it for the upcoming season. Apparently that's lame in the eyes of my wife lol. I disagree. Players come and go, especially now a days, so I don't want to spend money on a jersey when they maybe gone in a few years.
my 50th birthday one of my friends bought me a 50 jersey with my last name on it. I wore it for a while, but prefer the ones with names on it. Now my go to jersey is a Lamar Jackson black jersey I bought in 2018.

I think it's pretty safe to say that Lamar Jackson is going to be a Raven for a long time. You could also get a Mark Andrews jersey, since he did just get a new contract.
 

Adreme

Ravens Ring of Honor
I saw some clown did a ranking of GMs and had EDC at 12. Dumb list is dumb but it seems the reason he is low is because of the injuries.

I mean thus far, since he formally took the job, drafts have been okay, trades have been great, and contracts/free agency hasn’t done well yet. It isn’t the most unfair ranking when you look at who is higher.
 
I mean thus far, since he formally took the job, drafts have been okay, trades have been great, and contracts/free agency hasn’t done well yet. It isn’t the most unfair ranking when you look at who is higher.

Yeah I don't really care about lists, just the rationale that was dumb. Unless you are arguing he has created an environment that leads to those injuries.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Yeah I don't really care about lists, just the rationale that was dumb. Unless you are arguing he has created an environment that leads to those injuries.
I mean, fair or unfair, GM's are essentially graded just like coaches, which is based on winning and losing.

Objectively, without the purple shades on, I'd say he's been largely "average" since he was given the full reigns, which I guess would be from 2019 forward. We all know he's been involved heavily long before that, but I don't think its fair to just grade him in totality over years where he wasn't the actual GM.

Excluding 2022 draft, since we know nothing about that group, where are the "star" players from the last three drafts? It's still early to evaluate potentially, but basically Hollywood is his prize draft pick at the moment, and we just traded him. The rest of the 2019 draft class was basically total ass, 2020 produced some depth and role players, but seemingly no "stars" at this point (with Dobbins maybe being that guy, but too early to tell). 2021 is early, and there's hope that Bateman and Oweh will be special, but they weren't in year 1. And so if you're in the business of making lists like this, you can't go by what you don't know. You have to go by what you know.

Trades have been fine. Peters was a good acquisition, but Yannick wasn't. I think he even gets props for the Hollywood and Orlando Brown trades, largely because most people think he got great value from those deals, though that's still sort of TBD.

In FA, its kind of "meh". A lot of cheap veteran acquisitions like normal, such as Zeitler, Houston, etc., but ultimately, he's kind of living or dying by Earl Thomas at this point, since he was the "big splash" and failed miserably. We've got Williams this year, but he hasn't played yet.

Contract wise, there's good and bad. He extended Marlon, which looks pretty good. He extended Stanley, who then abruptly got injured and has missed a ton of time. Like it or not, the public views that as a negative, not a positive. I agree that he shouldn't be expected to predict injuries, but it's still not a good thing in any scenario where you extend an All-Pro LT and then he doesn't play. It's bad for everybody, including the GM.
That being said, he couldn't get Hollywood to stay, he gave ET a bad contract, and he couldn't close the ZaDarius deal this offseason, and perhaps most importantly, he hasn't signed his franchise QB to a lucrative extension.

Again, not all of that falls on him, but if you were evaluating a GM of another team, you'd evaluate them on those things, as well as W/L record. Ability to extend homegrown players, ability to draft well, ability to get good value in FA and trade market. I think Eric has been largely "average" in totality in those areas over the course of 3-4 years.

The one thing I'd give him credit for is the team has remained highly competitive despite some of the issues, which is a testament to roster construction and coaching.
 
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RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
you can't blame Eric DeCosta for the injuries outside of not having a better option for Stanley's replacement last season. However lowering his grade because of all the injuries is ridiculous. Whether he is top 10 or not is an opinion and he has been rated among the top GMs also. I think he is easily in the top 10.

BTW, can't count out Patrick Queen or Madubuike from the 2020 draft class. Queen totally came on the last half of last year and hopefully he picks up and improves on 2021. Madubuike had a good season, but I'm expecting a breakout this season. We all know how Dobbins can play, lets hope he regains form. Devin Duvernay has become one of the better KRs in the league and a decent roll player but not what we wanted from him. However James Proche is the one I think has some success in this league, but again it's too soon to call. Geno Stone had some success also and he was a 7th round draft pick. A lot of ifs, yes, but this class could end up being a very good draft class. We shall know more this season.

2021 and 2022 is way too soon to know.

The only thing I agree with is 2019 being a bad draft, but atleast we hit on Hollywood who we also had good returns on the field and were able to trade him for a player who absolutely could be an all pro for a long time. Again too soon to know.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
you can't blame Eric DeCosta for the injuries outside of not having a better option for Stanley's replacement last season. However lowering his grade because of all the injuries is ridiculous. Whether he is top 10 or not is an opinion and he has been rated among the top GMs also. I think he is easily in the top 10.

BTW, can't count out Patrick Queen or Madubuike from the 2020 draft class. Queen totally came on the last half of last year and hopefully he picks up and improves on 2021. Madubuike had a good season, but I'm expecting a breakout this season. We all know how Dobbins can play, lets hope he regains form. Devin Duvernay has become one of the better KRs in the league and a decent roll player but not what we wanted from him. However James Proche is the one I think has some success in this league, but again it's too soon to call. Geno Stone had some success also and he was a 7th round draft pick. A lot of ifs, yes, but this class could end up being a very good draft class. We shall know more this season.

2021 and 2022 is way too soon to know.

The only thing I agree with is 2019 being a bad draft, but atleast we hit on Hollywood who we also had good returns on the field and were able to trade him for a player who absolutely could be an all pro for a long time. Again too soon to know.
Why can't you blame him though? You would blame other GMs for the same thing. Like I said... they're graded on pass/fail. You can say its not fair to grade him that way, but if you give a lucrative contract to a player who then misses multiple years with injury, you can't just ignore that as part of a roster construction valuation or a financial allocation.
I mean I could make an argument that a GM can basically never be blamed for anything. They're not the one's actually playing, so when it comes to execution, their out of the loop entirely. I can't blame them for making a bad draft pick, because I'll bet I'll find dozens of analysts, former scouts, coaches, GMs, etc. who all loved the guy. Happens every year.

When I referenced draft classes, I mentioned STAR players. Like franchise-level guys. His sample size isn't big right now, but from 2019/2020, I don't see any. Queen and Madubuike may be fine players... they're not stars. I don't think they'll be stars. They're not at Lamar's level. They're not at Orlando Brown's level. They're not at Mark Andrews level. They're not elite players at their position that would universally be desired by basically every team in the league.
We can talk about quality role players and solid contributors, but isn't that sort of the bare minimum you'd expect from a GM? Like if I brought in a new GM tomorrow, wouldn't I expect them to AT LEAST be able to get quality role players and contributors via the draft, especially in the mid-to-late rounds?

I agree that I'm not in the "ranking GM's" business. But its hard to argue against where anybody would put him, mostly because very few things he's done from 2019-forward have been "WOW" moves that have turned into "WOW" players. Like I would legitimately say the best thing he's done so far is trade for Marcus Peters. There's a lot of things he's done that MIGHT turn into special things, like trading Brown and landing Oweh, like signing Marcus Williams, like landing two stud players in the first round this year. They MIGHT turn into special things, but nobody is evaluating people based off of MIGHT.

They evaluate people based off of what they tangibly have to show for it and what they've done.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
Why can't you blame him though? You would blame other GMs for the same thing. Like I said... they're graded on pass/fail. You can say its not fair to grade him that way, but if you give a lucrative contract to a player who then misses multiple years with injury, you can't just ignore that as part of a roster construction valuation or a financial allocation.
I mean I could make an argument that a GM can basically never be blamed for anything. They're not the one's actually playing, so when it comes to execution, their out of the loop entirely. I can't blame them for making a bad draft pick, because I'll bet I'll find dozens of analysts, former scouts, coaches, GMs, etc. who all loved the guy. Happens every year.

When I referenced draft classes, I mentioned STAR players. Like franchise-level guys. His sample size isn't big right now, but from 2019/2020, I don't see any. Queen and Madubuike may be fine players... they're not stars. I don't think they'll be stars. They're not at Lamar's level. They're not at Orlando Brown's level. They're not at Mark Andrews level. They're not elite players at their position that would universally be desired by basically every team in the league.
We can talk about quality role players and solid contributors, but isn't that sort of the bare minimum you'd expect from a GM? Like if I brought in a new GM tomorrow, wouldn't I expect them to AT LEAST be able to get quality role players and contributors via the draft, especially in the mid-to-late rounds?

I agree that I'm not in the "ranking GM's" business. But its hard to argue against where anybody would put him, mostly because very few things he's done from 2019-forward have been "WOW" moves that have turned into "WOW" players. Like I would legitimately say the best thing he's done so far is trade for Marcus Peters. There's a lot of things he's done that MIGHT turn into special things, like trading Brown and landing Oweh, like signing Marcus Williams, like landing two stud players in the first round this year. They MIGHT turn into special things, but nobody is evaluating people based off of MIGHT.

They evaluate people based off of what they tangibly have to show for it and what they've done.
whatever you say
 

Adreme

Ravens Ring of Honor
sure - but i think it's pretty well understood at this point that EDC has been running the draft for well over a decade at this point

Except at the end of the day they were not his drafts they were Ozzie's because Ozzie was still GM. Once EDC took over the job he gets to get credit/blame for the drafts even if he gives out part of the decision making power to another because that is the power of being in that chair.

Right now for EDC we have 2019, 2020, 2021, and soon to be 2022. 2019 was a very bad class. From picking the 4th or 5th best WR in his class first who was traded and now the entire rest of the class will likely only have 1 player from that draft on the roster and likely not starting. 2020 looks decent and could be good if the 1st and 3rd round picks take a step forward and your 2nd round pick comes back from injury but as of now it is just decent and 2021 and 2022 are TBD.

Trades have obviously been great with even some missed picks being dealt into value over time.

Contracts have just happened to not work out largely. It is the post SB Ravens problem where it seems like every signed player has managed to get hurt and the free agents have not made a large impact.
 
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cdp

Ravens Ring of Honor
I mean, fair or unfair, GM's are essentially graded just like coaches, which is based on winning and losing.

Objectively, without the purple shades on, I'd say he's been largely "average" since he was given the full reigns, which I guess would be from 2019 forward. We all know he's been involved heavily long before that, but I don't think its fair to just grade him in totality over years where he wasn't the actual GM.

Excluding 2022 draft, since we know nothing about that group, where are the "star" players from the last three drafts? It's still early to evaluate potentially, but basically Hollywood is his prize draft pick at the moment, and we just traded him. The rest of the 2019 draft class was basically total ass, 2020 produced some depth and role players, but seemingly no "stars" at this point (with Dobbins maybe being that guy, but too early to tell). 2021 is early, and there's hope that Bateman and Oweh will be special, but they weren't in year 1. And so if you're in the business of making lists like this, you can't go by what you don't know. You have to go by what you know.

Trades have been fine. Peters was a good acquisition, but Yannick wasn't. I think he even gets props for the Hollywood and Orlando Brown trades, largely because most people think he got great value from those deals, though that's still sort of TBD.

In FA, its kind of "meh". A lot of cheap veteran acquisitions like normal, such as Zeitler, Houston, etc., but ultimately, he's kind of living or dying by Earl Thomas at this point, since he was the "big splash" and failed miserably. We've got Williams this year, but he hasn't played yet.

Contract wise, there's good and bad. He extended Marlon, which looks pretty good. He extended Stanley, who then abruptly got injured and has missed a ton of time. Like it or not, the public views that as a negative, not a positive. I agree that he shouldn't be expected to predict injuries, but it's still not a good thing in any scenario where you extend an All-Pro LT and then he doesn't play. It's bad for everybody, including the GM.
That being said, he couldn't get Hollywood to stay, he gave ET a bad contract, and he couldn't close the ZaDarius deal this offseason, and perhaps most importantly, he hasn't signed his franchise QB to a lucrative extension.

Again, not all of that falls on him, but if you were evaluating a GM of another team, you'd evaluate them on those things, as well as W/L record. Ability to extend homegrown players, ability to draft well, ability to get good value in FA and trade market. I think Eric has been largely "average" in totality in those areas over the course of 3-4 years.

The one thing I'd give him credit for is the team has remained highly competitive despite some of the issues, which is a testament to roster construction and coaching.
Pretty much this...
At what rate do you expect an above average GM to draft star players?
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
sure - but i think it's pretty well understood at this point that EDC has been running the draft for well over a decade at this point
I thought he was running the draft 5 or 6 years prior to being named GM. All in all it doesn't matter, but a decade surprises me.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Pretty much this...
At what rate do you expect an above average GM to draft star players?
I honestly don't know, and it'll be subjective. I would think one every 2-3 years would be realistic. Regardless of how you view the hierarchy of rounds, you're going to draft like 15-20 players during that period. I don't think expecting one or maybe even two during that period is unrealistic.

And I'm not talking like HOFers necessarily either. I don't expect us to land Ray Lewis or Ed Reed every 2-3 years. But guys that are like universally top like 3-5 players at their positions I think is reasonable.

And I'm also OK with it being in batches. Like 2018 you landed 2-3 complete studs. A top 5-10 QB by every metric, a top 2-3 TE and a top 2-3 RT (now a high-end, soon to be highest paid LT). That was in one draft. Some years you'll have none, some years you'll have multiple.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
I honestly don't know, and it'll be subjective. I would think one every 2-3 years would be realistic. Regardless of how you view the hierarchy of rounds, you're going to draft like 15-20 players during that period. I don't think expecting one or maybe even two during that period is unrealistic.

And I'm not talking like HOFers necessarily either. I don't expect us to land Ray Lewis or Ed Reed every 2-3 years. But guys that are like universally top like 3-5 players at their positions I think is reasonable.
this would also depend on where you are picking in the draft, but I agree with you it is subjective.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
this would also depend on where you are picking in the draft, but I agree with you it is subjective.
I'm not so sure it does in some cases though. If there's one thing we should have learned, especially in recent drafts, its that picking like top 5 or 10 doesn't guarantee you anything.

I know we can draft one of the best TEs in the league in the third round, because we did it recently. I know we can draft one of the top tackles in all of football in the third round, because we did it recently. I know we can get a very high end QB in the late first round, because we did it recently.

And we're not the only team that does that either. I set the bar a bit higher for a high first round pick, but I don't give teams a pass necessarily for not being able to draft and develop stars just because of draft position.
 

Tank

Hall of Famer
Why can't you blame him though? You would blame other GMs for the same thing. Like I said... they're graded on pass/fail. You can say its not fair to grade him that way, but if you give a lucrative contract to a player who then misses multiple years with injury, you can't just ignore that as part of a roster construction valuation or a financial allocation.
I mean I could make an argument that a GM can basically never be blamed for anything. They're not the one's actually playing, so when it comes to execution, their out of the loop entirely. I can't blame them for making a bad draft pick, because I'll bet I'll find dozens of analysts, former scouts, coaches, GMs, etc. who all loved the guy. Happens every year.

When I referenced draft classes, I mentioned STAR players. Like franchise-level guys. His sample size isn't big right now, but from 2019/2020, I don't see any. Queen and Madubuike may be fine players... they're not stars. I don't think they'll be stars. They're not at Lamar's level. They're not at Orlando Brown's level. They're not at Mark Andrews level. They're not elite players at their position that would universally be desired by basically every team in the league.
We can talk about quality role players and solid contributors, but isn't that sort of the bare minimum you'd expect from a GM? Like if I brought in a new GM tomorrow, wouldn't I expect them to AT LEAST be able to get quality role players and contributors via the draft, especially in the mid-to-late rounds?

I agree that I'm not in the "ranking GM's" business. But its hard to argue against where anybody would put him, mostly because very few things he's done from 2019-forward have been "WOW" moves that have turned into "WOW" players. Like I would legitimately say the best thing he's done so far is trade for Marcus Peters. There's a lot of things he's done that MIGHT turn into special things, like trading Brown and landing Oweh, like signing Marcus Williams, like landing two stud players in the first round this year. They MIGHT turn into special things, but nobody is evaluating people based off of MIGHT.

They evaluate people based off of what they tangibly have to show for it and what they've done.
Thinking of all of the big contracts in the past that were signed, then the player out with injuries. Using that metric Oz would have been a flop. lol
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
I thought he was running the draft 5 or 6 years prior to being named GM. All in all it doesn't matter, but a decade surprises me.

i think it may well even be longer than a decade - think EDC talked recently about something as early as 2005 or 2007 or something in that range that he's been in charge of building the board and running the meetings - i imagine there was still some substantial Ozzie oversight but we know that by around 2013 (when the conversation was had with EDC about succession) that he was running the draft at that point on everything basically except final say on draft trades...
 
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