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2018 Secondary

I mean seriously? I didn't like the Humphrey pick and Marlon had little to do with it. To this day I think there was better value on the board. Humphrey fits our defense like a glove and I fully expect him to be a very good starter inm the league towards the season's end. His skills when the ball is in front of him is fantastic. His big issues are with the deep ball, and with players such as Webb, Weddle, and Jefferson in the back, that issue could hopefully diminish. His ball skills are very good, but not elite. I'm more worried about Bowser(who I think would excel at ILB for what is worth)..
 
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Would entirely disagree with him being a below average coverage safety. I'd argue he's above average.

Sure, he doesn't have the range or instincts to play in a single high, but put him over the middle or in the box and he's an above average coverage safety.
I didn't feel that he was below average in that aspect neither, at least for the role he played, which is a surprise considering that he was one of the most struggling safeties in coverage the year before. Quite the turnaround.
 
I didn't feel that he was below average in that aspect neither, at least for the role he played, which is a surprise considering that he was one of the most struggling safeties in coverage the year before. Quite the turnaround.
I think it helped that they dropped his snaps there from like 56% to mid 30%.
 
Put it this way. He reminds me of browner. Plays good cvg when the play is in front lf him. Most of all, what he lacks cant be taught and those skills that cant be taught is what separates the good cbs from the not so talented ones
 
I wanna be wrong about Marqise and Breshad. I like Perrimans potential for 1000 yards and many big plays. But I like Marqise's skillset to be a consistent playmaker. One of those playmakers that can catch 10-12 times and take over games. Especially if he got with a precision QB and offense. I agree drafting Fournette is gonna hurt him. And he plays with 2 really good receivers. But I really think he pulled ahead of Hurns. And will compete with Robinson for NO.1. BTW I forgot about Ramsey down the stretch. But I can't think of anybody outperforming him on offense. Color me crazy but I think Marqise in the right offense could be comparable to Beckham. Maybe part of that is how much I really dislike Beckham.
Why the dislike for Beckham Jr., if you don't mind? I personally view him as a prototype No.1, one of my favorite prospects in that class. Lee possibly performed the best of the skill players on Jacksonville this season, with Brandon Linden playing the best on offensive, but that's in great deal a bigger indicator of how much the offense struggled. It's tough to state that Lee pulled away from Hurns given that Hurns was either limited with or missed time with a shoulder/neck injury, a concussion, and a hamstring injury. I doubt they'd immediately bench Hurns given that his last healthy season was a very good one. But Lee at least performed well enough in relief to be given an opportunity to pull away. That being said, with all due respect to Lee, they're arguably in two separate categories. Both are capable route runners, with Beckham Jr. being among the best in the league, both have been strong in YAC (Catch and contact), although Beckham Jr. likely gets the nod. Here's a detailed article about the latter (Link). However, their hands in comparison are worlds apart. Whereas Beckham Jr. consistently plucks the ball and is perennially outstanding in traffic, Lee consistently seems significantly uncomfortable in this facet. This unfortunately isn't a new development given that it showed up in his college games.

That's what made the difference in my original assessment. When I first came across Lee, it was via highlight tapes of his sophomore season, and I thought he was outright remarkable. I assume most would've have. Once I delved into the tapes, however, I was somewhat soured by the fact that he seemed to mostly be a body-basket catcher and it affected his timing and effectiveness on 50-50 balls. With the focus drops present as well with the inconsistent catch radius, the pair of concerns are potentially due to limit his potential. Take into account this season; he cut his drop rate average of 15.3% from the prior to season to almost half, and that's still 58th in the NFL. In the games I've seen from this season, Lee had most of his trouble in throws outside the hashes with a body around him. I believe I saw a single successful reception of a back-shoulder attempt. This was it (Link). Most of the other attempts outside of the hashes in contested situations ended in the following ways (Link1, Link2, Link3, Link4, Link5). He did reel in an attempt out of bounds against Houston that earns partial credit. But in multiple games, most of his incompletions came in the final drives. The other physical traits are present, yes. But this is why it's difficult to be all in on Lee as a future No.1 WR caliber WR. Perriman, in comparison, despite being physically gifted as well, has been very capable in such scenarios. Even before that ridiculous first NFL catch against Stephon Gilmore, it was a visible strength of his at UCF. He did (and does) suffer from the same focus drops as Lee, but his catch radius was never limited. And the latter issue absolutely be a ceiling cap. I'm rooting for both to succeed, obviously more for Perriman given the team he's on.
 
Need I remind everyone that WinchesterHorsemanHammer initially based his assessment of us signing Tony Jefferson, a proven NFL safety, on his fucking forty time from several years ago. That should stick a massive fork down whatever credibility he has on the subject matter

I mean seriously? I didn't like the Humphrey pick and Marlon had little to do with it. To this day I think there was better value on the board. Humphrey fits our defense like a glove and I fully expect him to be a very good starter inm the league towards the season's end. His skills when the ball is in front of him is fantastic. His big issues are with the deep ball, and with players such as Webb, Weddle, and Jefferson in the back, that issue could hopefully diminish. His ball skills are very good, but not elite. I'm more worried about Bowser(who I think would excel at ILB for what is worth)..
Im doubting marlon, but at same time like you said.. he fits our system so it could work out. We are great at developing cbs so, im not too much worried about him howver i just feel like we couldve something great at our pick.. im really excited to see tim williams. He looks really good
 
Put it this way. He reminds me of browner. Plays good cvg when the play is in front lf him. Most of all, what he lacks cant be taught and those skills that cant be taught is what separates the good cbs from the not so talented ones
Turning your head is teachable. Footwork is perhaps the most teachable thing in all of sports.

Also, this is obvious parroting. Still can't elaborate the flaws you see.
 
Turning your head is teachable. Footwork is perhaps the most teachable thing in all of sports.

Also, this is obvious parroting. Still can't elaborate the flaws you see.
Lol i never said footwork amd turning your head isnt teachable. Im telling you what he lacks cant be taught.
 
Why the dislike for Beckham Jr., if you don't mind? I personally view him as a prototype No.1, one of my favorite prospects in that class. Lee possibly performed the best of the skill players on Jacksonville this season, with Brandon Linden playing the best on offensive, but that's in great deal a bigger indicator of how much the offense struggled. It's tough to state that Lee pulled away from Hurns given that Hurns was either limited with or missed time with a shoulder/neck injury, a concussion, and a hamstring injury. I doubt they'd immediately bench Hurns given that his last healthy season was a very good one. But Lee at least performed well enough in relief to be given an opportunity to pull away. That being said, with all due respect to Lee, they're arguably in two separate categories. Both are capable route runners, with Beckham Jr. being among the best in the league, both have been strong in YAC (Catch and contact), although Beckham Jr. likely gets the nod. Here's a detailed article about the latter (Link). However, their hands in comparison are worlds apart. Whereas Beckham Jr. consistently plucks the ball and is perennially outstanding in traffic, Lee consistently seems significantly uncomfortable in this facet. This unfortunately isn't a new development given that it showed up in his college games.

That's what made the difference in my original assessment. When I first came across Lee, it was via highlight tapes of his sophomore season, and I thought he was outright remarkable. I assume most would've have. Once I delved into the tapes, however, I was somewhat soured by the fact that he seemed to mostly be a body-basket catcher and it affected his timing and effectiveness on 50-50 balls. With the focus drops present as well with the inconsistent catch radius, the pair of concerns are potentially due to limit his potential. Take into account this season; he cut his drop rate average of 15.3% from the prior to season to almost half, and that's still 58th in the NFL. In the games I've seen from this season, Lee had most of his trouble in throws outside the hashes with a body around him. I believe I saw a single successful reception of a back-shoulder attempt. This was it (Link). Most of the other attempts outside of the hashes in contested situations ended in the following ways (Link1, Link2, Link3, Link4, Link5). He did reel in an attempt out of bounds against Houston that earns partial credit. But in multiple games, most of his incompletions came in the final drives. The other physical traits are present, yes. But this is why it's difficult to be all in on Lee as a future No.1 WR caliber WR. Perriman, in comparison, despite being physically gifted as well, has been very capable in such scenarios. Even before that ridiculous first NFL catch against Stephon Gilmore, it was a visible strength of his at UCF. He did (and does) suffer from the same focus drops as Lee, but his catch radius was never limited. And the latter issue absolutely be a ceiling cap. I'm rooting for both to succeed, obviously more for Perriman given the team he's on.

Beckham always rubbed me the wrong way. Even b4 he showed his true colors I believed he would show himself to be a thuggish jerk. I rooted for Marqise. Marqise could maybe outperform him in a timing offense and good QB. He may never make the one ganders like Beckham. But I think he is smarter and will do better in a timing offense that requires precision. Perriman has that ridiculous catch radius. But I don't think he makes consistent plays in intermediate routes with separation and timing. To consistently to be somebody that can Catch 12 footballs in a single game. Unless his routes get better. But he is a top shelf big play threat always. If his routes get better, a lot better he could be unreal
 
You have yet to state what he lacks. You just say it can't be taught. And you say he's a bama cb so he's gonna bust.
I never said the word the " bust" lol. In fact i hope he proves me wrong like i said before. Even better example is collins in the SB. Was playing nice cvg, but didnt have the instincts and awareness to up his good. They picked him apart that 2nd half of the SB. They kept throwing timed routes to his side and he would hesitate or not track the ball quickly enough to make the play
 
What does he lack then?
You cant teach instincts bro, cant teach ball jusgement and tracking. From what i saw he never really jumped or sat on routes. In no way im saying he gonna be a bust, im just saying he is not impressive to me and i feel like maybe we couldve gotten something better at our pick
 
You cant teach instincts bro, cant teach ball jusgement and tracking. From what i saw he never really jumped or sat on routes. In no way im saying he gonna be a bust, im just saying he is not impressive to me and i feel like maybe we couldve gotten something better at our pick
You don't think he has instincts? Alright, convinced you have no idea what you're looking at. His instincts and in game knowledge are what jump out on film to me the very most.
 
I never said the word the " bust" lol. In fact i hope he proves me wrong like i said before. Even better example is collins in the SB. Was playing nice cvg, but didnt have the instincts and awareness to up his good. They picked him apart that 2nd half of the SB. They kept throwing timed routes to his side and he would hesitate or not track the ball quickly enough to make the play
What the shit does that have to do with Humphrey?
 
You cant teach instincts bro, cant teach ball jusgement and tracking. From what i saw he never really jumped or sat on routes. In no way im saying he gonna be a bust, im just saying he is not impressive to me and i feel like maybe we couldve gotten something better at our pick
If a corner is universally praised for how well he plays when the play is in front of him, it's because he is doing those exact things at a high level. He anticipates throws and comes downhill lightning fast to break it up. It's literally the most consistent and strongest part of his game. His instincts are what makes him jump off the film
 
Beckham always rubbed me the wrong way. Even b4 he showed his true colors I believed he would show himself to be a thuggish jerk. I rooted for Marqise. Marqise could maybe outperform him in a timing offense and good QB. He may never make the one ganders like Beckham. But I think he is smarter and will do better in a timing offense that requires precision. Perriman has that ridiculous catch radius. But I don't think he makes consistent plays in intermediate routes with separation and timing. To consistently to be somebody that can Catch 12 footballs in a single game. Unless his routes get better. But he is a top shelf big play threat always. If his routes get better, a lot better he could be unreal
I understand that, however, he's still an elite talent. He's arguably one of the most polished receivers I've ever scouted, which isn't a stretch given his immediate production. I have a tough time envisioning Lee outperforming Beckham Jr. It's a high bar to set for any WR. Could Lee break the century mark? It's possible. Would be a difficult task with the mouths to feed around him. But in the comparison between the two, talent wise, it's less about the one-handed catches and more about the hands, confidence in traffic, and radius (I'm unsure how Lee being smarter was measured). All three categories are likely to be led by Beckham Jr. in most comparisons on his own merits, and they're exceedingly furthered by Lee's struggles with both focus drops and contested catches, which are significant aspects in determining how much an outside receiver can be leaned on. We've seen players overcome either one or the other. But having both is often outright debilitating. I'd be better understanding about 12 catch game notion if the looks were sparse, but he wasn't short on opportunities this season. He played over 800 snaps this season and saw over 100 targets. He saw 2.8 snaps less per game than Emmanuel Sanders, 7.4 less than Julio Jones. And the most Lee managed despite Allen Robinson's inconsistencies and other skill players struggling was a career-high 7 receptions. Even with roughly 25% more snaps (Which would vault him into the Top 10) and better QB play, it's not overly reasonable to expect that number to literally almost double to 12. He's done it multiple times in his sophomore season at USC, yes. But the NFL is a different animal. If you're not a legitimate threat outside of the hashes as an outside receiver against tight coverage, CBs won't allow you to constantly eat on the inside. They'll simply shade their outside foot right at your center mass and employ the sideline as a coworker. With that in mind, 12 catch games are unrealistic unless the plays are specifically manufactured to put the player in space with decoys and rubs. And then the numbers become a larger byproduct of the system, which grants less credit to the player. In either case, with Perriman's skill-set, I doubt he'd ever need to break double-digit catches in order to be a full-fledged contributor. Targets, yes. But he can be a 5-7 catch receiver and still cross the 100 yard mark.
 
I'll go straight to the question - best secondary in the league. I don't know about that - I'll settle for one of the best. I may even settle for just a lot better than we've been over the last few years. We just have to find ways to stop teams from erasing late leads.

The addition of Jefferson should really go a long way. We've struggled at the safety position since Reed's departure and Weddle just couldn't fill the gap by himself. With Jefferson on board, I think we find some cohesion.

But here is the bottom line - Smith needs to stay on the field. If we lose him yet again, all bets are off.
 
I'll go straight to the question - best secondary in the league. I don't know about that - I'll settle for one of the best. I may even settle for just a lot better than we've been over the last few years. We just have to find ways to stop teams from erasing late leads.

The addition of Jefferson should really go a long way. We've struggled at the safety position since Reed's departure and Weddle just couldn't fill the gap by himself. With Jefferson on board, I think we find some cohesion.

But here is the bottom line - Smith needs to stay on the field. If we lose him yet again, all bets are off.
yea i agree we arent the best secondary in lg at all. Top 5 or 6 for sure though as long as jimmy stays healthy
 
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