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Definitely not a Darious Williams thread

Justdewinit20 said:
Every CB is going to get beat eventually, but if your CB is just getting destroyed on just about every play it’s a liability. I can say that Young lined up against Dez and Odell changed the outcome of both those games. Jimmy was handling Odell just fine before injury and we had to go into that Cowyboys game without him. So I’m asking would you trust Young on the outside especially in our division where every team has an elite WR? Young lined up against Green, Brown, or Gordon can change the entire game no matter how strong we may be at other positions on defense.
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I definitely would - you are comparing top5 NFL corner with a rookie. Just how great was #22 in his first couple years?
 
allblackraven said:
I definitely would - you are comparing top5 NFL corner with a rookie. Just how great was #22 in his first couple years?
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Tavon played much better than Jimmy did his first few years. And started most of the season as an outside CB. He's just spewing BS.
 
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allblackraven said:
I definitely would - you are comparing top5 NFL corner with a rookie. Just how great was #22 in his first couple years?
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That’s exactly my point Jimmy is a great corner and not easily replaceable, Young can’t replace Jimmy
Jimmy when he played was solid; not awful and not great. Everyone was ready to call him a bust but I liked him a lot. Jimmy lining up outside was never a question. Slot CB and outside CB are 2 completely different positions. Biggest problem with Young is his press coverage he’s just not going to be able to do it not because of his height, but his weight outside WRs easily beat his press. In the slot you can’t press because the receiver isn’t lined up at the LOS. You basically have to play off coverage and he’s going to be consistently giving up all the easy catches. Why would you want to play a player at a position that doesn’t show his strength? Add his ACL injury in too this roster has its holes in coming years no way around it. Outside CB is a huge need if Jimmy is cut.
 
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Justdewinit20 said:
L

That’s exactly my point Jimmy is a great corner and not easily replaceable, Young can’t replace Jimmy
Jimmy when he played was solid; not awful and not great. Everyone was ready to call him a bust but I liked him a lot. Jimmy lining up outside was never a question. Slot CB and outside CB are 2 completely different positions. Biggest problem with Young is his press coverage he’s just not going to be able to do it not because of his height, but
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Lmao that's all you got? I've got news for you. Once again you're wrong.

It's obvious at this point you've never even seen Tavon Young play because you've been wrong about everything you've said.

Tavon can and does press. He started 11 games as an outside CB in 2016 and played great. I can literally show you videos of him lined up directly across from his man.

Outside of 1 game verses a prime Dez Bryant who no one is going to freaking stop, Tavon had a great rookie year and by all means showed he can play outside CB in the NFL. (Yup that's right, Odell never beat him like you think.)

Unfortunately due to his size he won't always be able to cover the biggest physical guys. But even with that, he covered guys like Tyler Eifert in 2016 and did great.

Not to mention he's physical and aggressive as hell and an incredible open field tackler.

No one is saying he's Jimmy's replacement. That's Marlon. But if Tavon builds on his very impressive rookie year he can EASILY be our #2 corner.
 
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DeVito52 said:
Here's a FACT for you. Since you don't have any. In 2016, Tavon young started 11 games on the outside. Young surrendered only 0.98 yards per cover snap in 2016. An amazing number and 2nd out of the rookie CB class.
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Just curious, but who was 1st of the rookie CBs? Ramsey?
 
Justdewinit20 said:
Lol what? Did you forget about Shareece Wright at CB 2? Tavon only took over when Jimmy got hurt against the Pats and in a few games where Jimmy had been injured in game. Young on the outside is a huge mismatch for us. He’s a solid slot CB yes that’s valuable, but to say he can be reliable and do his job on the outside is ridicoulous. Our core isn’t great by possibly next year if Weddle, Suggs and Jimmy all gone after this season. In 2-3 Years Pierce is a FA, Jefferson, and Tavon Young. You’re left with Mosley and B Williams. Did I mention B Williams will be 32 by then? All you’re left with is average players maybe some above average(if they pan out) This defense has holes that the FO is going to have to address. There’s no one on this defensive roster that is signed through the next 2-3 years that is CURRENTLY a great player outside of Humphrey. It makes sense why they drafted Lamar Jackson as we’re going to need to clear up cap space and actually attack FA heavily to address our needs as the draft isn’t going to solve all of our issues in the future.

Back to the Darious Williams topic. He’s has a legitimate shot of making the roster and actually getting playing time.
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i think you misunderstand what core means - it doesnt mean that we dont have future holes to fill but it means at key positions we are set for the future and only have to replenish surrounding talent - we have a number 1 corner in marlon, a mike linebacker and defensive shot caller who's a top 4 player at his position in CJ Mosley, the best run-stuffing nose tackle in the league in brandon williams and then a bunch of young complementary Dlinemen and backend players... that's a strong core - obviously you have to keep adding talent or you just starting leaking good players without replacement but the core is there - the only thing that would make the core stronger is a young starting safety...

and as for tavon - i now really dont believe you watched him - tavon started 11 games mostly opposite jimmy smith after replacing shareece wright early in the year when we realised how bad wright was - young played as the number 2 corner and spent most of his time matched up on the outside so your facts are straight up wrong to begin with

but conflating some of the other things you said later in this thread i.e. vs odell and not playing press - that's all also wrong...
vs odell tavon was responsible for 1 big negative play when he unfortunately tripped over early in the route leaving odell wide open - otherwise tavon locked down his targets and even got a very athletic tight coverage int in that game - in fact on that Int he was covering the number 2 receiver in the slot but the slot was lined up at LoS so he pressed him and played tight man coverage

but throughout that season tavon played press on multiple occasions on the outside
 
Justdewinit20 said:
Every CB is going to get beat eventually, but if your CB is just getting destroyed on just about every play it’s a liability. I can say that Young lined up against Dez and Odell changed the outcome of both those games. Jimmy was handling Odell just fine before injury and we had to go into that Cowyboys game without him. So I’m asking would you trust Young on the outside especially in our division where every team has an elite WR? Young lined up against Green, Brown, or Gordon can change the entire game no matter how strong we may be at other positions on defense.
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Jimmy vs the chargers his rookie year was absolutely atrocious, should he stick to the slot?
 
Justdewinit20 said:
L

That’s exactly my point Jimmy is a great corner and not easily replaceable, Young can’t replace Jimmy
Jimmy when he played was solid; not awful and not great. Everyone was ready to call him a bust but I liked him a lot. Jimmy lining up outside was never a question. Slot CB and outside CB are 2 completely different positions. Biggest problem with Young is his press coverage he’s just not going to be able to do it not because of his height, but his weight outside WRs easily beat his press. In the slot you can’t press because the receiver isn’t lined up at the LOS. You basically have to play off coverage and he’s going to be consistently giving up all the easy catches. Why would you want to play a player at a position that doesn’t show his strength? Add his ACL injury in too this roster has its holes in coming years no way around it. Outside CB is a huge need if Jimmy is cut.
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Half the posters wanted jimmy to give up 22 to matt Elam to keep his college number because we thought jimmy was a bust. He absolutely was a question at one point. He was extremely susceptible to double moves
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
Half the posters wanted jimmy to give up 22 to matt Elam to keep his college number because we thought jimmy was a bust. He absolutely was a question at one point. He was extremely susceptible to double moves
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Jimmy Smith had has flashes though that showed that he could be a really good CB in this league. And he has been since about 2013. He's overrated by a certain member on this forum, but has been one of the most criminally underrated defensive players in the league for about five years now, only started getting some recognition from other fanbases last season, which is utter bullshit.

Young had a few bad plays against Dez Bryant... But make no mistakes. That dude is skilled in coverage. As a rookie he was bound to fuck up at some point, and even then was capable of holding his own vs some of the better WRs in the league. It's actually a terrifying proposition that Humphrey and Young are going to man the corner positions for likely to next half decade at least because Young as a rookie looked the part of a well above average CB at the NFL level. He might be better suited for the slot, but underestimating his skill on the outside is dumb. He can play there. And adding Averett makes me really excited because I see a lot of that kind of potential in him too. Having him and Young switch off is going to be fun for the next few years
 
Lost_In_Translation said:
Jimmy Smith had has flashes though that showed that he could be a really good CB in this league. And he has been since about 2013. He's overrated by a certain member on this forum, but has been one of the most criminally underrated defensive players in the league for about five years now, only started getting some recognition from other fanbases last season, which is utter bullshit.

Young had a few bad plays against Dez Bryant... But make no mistakes. That dude is skilled in coverage. As a rookie he was bound to fuck up at some point, and even then was capable of holding his own vs some of the better WRs in the league. It's actually a terrifying proposition that Humphrey and Young are going to man the corner positions for likely to next half decade at least because Young as a rookie looked the part of a well above average CB at the NFL level. He might be better suited for the slot, but underestimating his skill on the outside is dumb. He can play there. And adding Averett makes me really excited because I see a lot of that kind of potential in him too. Having him and Young switch off is going to be fun for the next few years
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Hard to overrate Jimmy Smith when he was arguably the best CB in the league before getting hurt last year?
 
DeVito52 said:
Hard to overrate Jimmy Smith when he was arguably the best CB in the league before getting hurt last year?
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I hate the fact that I'm in this position. I really am a fan of his and am happy he's on the squad.

But last season was the only one where you could make that claim. He was a damn good CB from 2013-2016 too, but the talk of him being the best in the league wasn't warranted. And it's a highly debatable topic given the quality CBs around the league. I'd take Jimmy as a top 10 guy. But there is an actual debate as to whether he's the best. There are 10 guys that I would put on his level. It's a defensible position, but not the one I take. Nonetheless, he's a shutdown level guy which makes the argument kind of pointless.

I do think that the team is currently blessed at the CB position though. I have Jimmy, Humphrey, and Young as top 40 CBs(sure, that doesn't sound impressive, but think of it. All 32 teams usually extensively play 3 CBs at a time. Some play more. That suddenly becomes very impressive).
 
Lost_In_Translation said:
Jimmy Smith had has flashes though that showed that he could be a really good CB in this league. And he has been since about 2013. He's overrated by a certain member on this forum, but has been one of the most criminally underrated defensive players in the league for about five years now, only started getting some recognition from other fanbases last season, which is utter bullshit.

Young had a few bad plays against Dez Bryant... But make no mistakes. That dude is skilled in coverage. As a rookie he was bound to fuck up at some point, and even then was capable of holding his own vs some of the better WRs in the league. It's actually a terrifying proposition that Humphrey and Young are going to man the corner positions for likely to next half decade at least because Young as a rookie looked the part of a well above average CB at the NFL level. He might be better suited for the slot, but underestimating his skill on the outside is dumb. He can play there. And adding Averett makes me really excited because I see a lot of that kind of potential in him too. Having him and Young switch off is going to be fun for the next few years
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He’s a liability on the outside it makes no sense to put him there and I’m sure our coaching staff agrees. The lack of depth forced him outside when Jimmy was hurt. He’s better suited in the slot. Again back to what this conversation was initially about. This roster on defense has its holes in the future it’s not an easy fix. Too many aging vets that are CURRENTLY our best players and in 2-3 years time they will be gone. You can’t fix talent with just adding depth like we’ve been doing. You need talent and depth, in the next 2-3 as of RIGHT NOW we don’t have much talent. The FO has work to do in the draft and free agency.
 
rossihunter2 said:
i think you misunderstand what core means - it doesnt mean that we dont have future holes to fill but it means at key positions we are set for the future and only have to replenish surrounding talent - we have a number 1 corner in marlon, a mike linebacker and defensive shot caller who's a top 4 player at his position in CJ Mosley, the best run-stuffing nose tackle in the league in brandon williams and then a bunch of young complementary Dlinemen and backend players... that's a strong core - obviously you have to keep adding talent or you just starting leaking good players without replacement but the core is there - the only thing that would make the core stronger is a young starting safety...

and as for tavon - i now really dont believe you watched him - tavon started 11 games mostly opposite jimmy smith after replacing shareece wright early in the year when we realised how bad wright was - young played as the number 2 corner and spent most of his time matched up on the outside so your facts are straight up wrong to begin with

but conflating some of the other things you said later in this thread i.e. vs odell and not playing press - that's all also wrong...
vs odell tavon was responsible for 1 big negative play when he unfortunately tripped over early in the route leaving odell wide open - otherwise tavon locked down his targets and even got a very athletic tight coverage int in that game - in fact on that Int he was covering the number 2 receiver in the slot but the slot was lined up at LoS so he pressed him and played tight man coverage

but throughout that season tavon played press on multiple occasions on the outside
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Actually the best run stopping NT is Damon Harrison, and a run stopping NT isnt worth anything in today’s league. Our backend is not set we have no safeties and no other outside CB across Humphrey. You need 3 good CBs. We have 2 if Young comes back healthy and plays well in the slot. No other ILB next to Mosley that has proven to be a capable starter. No edge players, but I like Tim Williams. Sorry, but do you believe we have guys on our roster that can do Suggs job once he leaves? It’s not hard finding run stuffers, actual pass rushers are hard to get ahold of. You want a solid core of players on defense? Look at the chargers, jaguars or falcons, You tell me which players on our defensive roster in the next 2-3 years can matchup up with there’s.
 
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Deebo813 said:
He was a top cb idk about the best. Thats ramsey spot
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He was the best. He was the #1 rated CB for almost the entire season when he was playing and he was playing without an Achilles from week 5 on. People forget he wasn't even healthy when he played and he still dominated.

Ramsey is very good but he wasn't even the top CB on his own team statistically.
 
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