Definitely not a Darious Williams thread

[RavensMania]

Judon played some nice ass zone cvg last season which surprised the fk outta me so yea i understand exactly what you mean but i dnt think others here do lol.

Can he take over as a starter, yes. Will he be a HOF like Suggs most likely will be, most likely not. That is what we mean by taking over his role. Suggs is also an extremely good leader and that is a huge part of why he is so important to this team. Agree, Judon was good in coverage and improved throughought the yr.

 

[rossihunter2]

He’s a liability on the outside it makes no sense to put him there and I’m sure our coaching staff agrees. The lack of depth forced him outside when Jimmy was hurt. He’s better suited in the slot. Again back to what this conversation was initially about. This roster on defense has its holes in the future it’s not an easy fix. Too many aging vets that are CURRENTLY our best players and in 2-3 years time they will be gone. You can’t fix talent with just adding depth like we’ve been doing. You need talent and depth, in the next 2-3 as of RIGHT NOW we don’t have much talent. The FO has work to do in the draft and free agency.

Dude tavon started for this time while jimmy was healthy - he was playing outside and playing well long before jimmys injury

And again you misunderstand the meaning of the word core - we have the core of a great defence down the line - we have a top 5 middle linebacker, a number 1 corner, a young group of defensive linemen, a quality group of young slot corners and a good starter on the edge - these guys are guaranteed to be around for a while - that’s a core right there of quality players

Just because vets will leave and need to be replaced does not mean that we don’t have a talented defensive core moving forward

 

[rossihunter2]

Can he take over as a starter, yes. Will he be a HOF like Suggs most likely will be, most likely not. That is what we mean by taking over his role. Suggs is also an extremely good leader and that is a huge part of why he is so important to this team. Agree, Judon was good in coverage and improved throughought the yr.

To be fair if that’s the way you describe taking over the role then the ravens have never got an adequate replacement (and never will have) at left tackle, middle linebacker, free safety, edge, defensive tackle, right guard, running back too

I’m of course being facetious but the point wasn’t really that Judon would be the same as Suggs but that he would take his spot on the defence and do a good enough job of it which I don’t think is ridiculous to say...

 

[redrum52]

His 13-14 stretch was arguably better than last season

I never knew people were saying give up his number and sure as hell not to Elam. Also, he was a rookie and injured year one and still managed to pick off Brady in the 11 AFCCG and seal the win in the SB, even though that no call was a blessing. I can't believe people really sleep on Jimmy like this. After his first two seasons he's played at a HIGH level. The problem is his last healthy season was 15 and that year was a complete disaster.

That depends. What's Tavon's Wonderlic score?

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[Justdewinit20]

Dude tavon started for this time while jimmy was healthy - he was playing outside and playing well long before jimmys injury

And again you misunderstand the meaning of the word core - we have the core of a great defence down the line - we have a top 5 middle linebacker, a number 1 corner, a young group of defensive linemen, a quality group of young slot corners and a good starter on the edge - these guys are guaranteed to be around for a while - that’s a core right there of quality players

Just because vets will leave and need to be replaced does not mean that we don’t have a talented defensive core moving forward

No it’s not. Compare the core you mentioned with the rest of the leagues “core” it doesn’t compare. Defense is going to be an issue going forward if the FO doesn’t address it. You’re saying you’d be confident going into a game in the next 2-3 years with
OLB-Judon, T Williams, Bowser
DT- B Williams(32 years old), W Henry, Chris Wormley
ILB- Mosley(if he resigns) Kenny Young, PO and a UDFA
CB-Humphrey, Young(after ACL tear), Averrett, Jaylen Hill,
S-Chuck Clark, DeShon Elliot

That’s a bottom 5 defense based on how they’ve played as of now.
This “core” needs a good edge, another DT, an outside CB, and possibly 2 safties. So it’s not a good core of players. Outside of B Williams, CJ Mosey, and Humphrey none of these players have seen significant playing time and have played well. And no CJ is not a top 5 LB. Give me Luke Kuechly, Lavonte David, Bobby Wagner, Deion Jones, Telvin Smith and Jordan Hicks. All guys that can cover at a high level. Even Reuben Foster when he was on the field was a better ILB. Roquan Smith hasn’t played a snap in the NFL and I’m sure he’s going to be a better ILB. That’s not an easy fix. FO has to draft well and spend smart in FA in the upcoming years.

 

[redrum52]

@Justdewinit20 You left off Jefferson and the fact that the other ilb spot has been easily replaced for over a decade. Mosley might look better in another scheme and isn't as bad as some make him out to be. Same goes for the olbs. The "core" really isn't as bad as you make it out to be. You left Pierce of the list as well. At a minimum we have a S, 2 cbs, 2 (possibly 3) Lbs and 2 DL. Considering there are only 11 spots on the field, that's a decent "core."

 

[Justdewinit20]

@Justdewinit20 You left off Jefferson and the fact that the other ilb spot has been easily replaced for over a decade. Mosley might look better in another scheme and isn't as bad as some make him out to be. Same goes for the olbs. The "core" really isn't as bad as you make it out to be. You left Pierce of the list as well. At a minimum we have a S, 2 cbs, 2 (possibly 3) Lbs and 2 DL. Considering there are only 11 spots on the field, that's a decent "core."

Pierce and Jefferson are FAs and I don’t see us resigning them. Again you’re just projecting players. Nothing on the field says that as of right now they are good players. They are mostly depth players not a “core” group. With the schedule we have this season. If guys like T Williams, Wormley, and Bowser don’t progress signicantly and if Jimmy isn’t playing well because of injury or isn’t playing at all, we’re going to get exposed badly.

 

[redrum52]

Pierce and Jefferson are FAs and I don’t see us resigning them. Again you’re just projecting players. Nothing on the field says that as of right now they are good players. They are mostly depth players not a “core” group.

Jefferson is signed for another 3 or 4 years. Pierce is a FA after the 18 season. The 2 lbs Judon and Mosley are good from what I've seen. Same goes for Tavon and Humphrey. The only knock on Tavon might be coming back from injury. And in limited reps Bowser showed promise. It's not a bad, for the most part, young nucleus.

 

[Justdewinit20]

Jefferson is signed for another 3 or 4 years. Pierce is a FA after the 18 season. The 2 lbs Judon and Mosley are good from what I've seen. Same goes for Tavon and Humphrey. The only knock on Tavon might be coming back from injury. And in limited reps Bowser showed promise. It's not a bad, for the most part, young nucleus.

Jefferson signed a 4 year contract. He’s on his second year. Wouldn’t be surprised if he gets cut sooner than that. Any way This whole argument was about the defense in the next 2-3 years and Jefferson won’t be on the roster in the next 3 years. The FO has their work cut out for them to draft well and spend smart to fix this defense. For some reason people are thinking that without Weddle, Suggs, and Jimmy we still have a solid core. Which is not true at all. All three of them are going to be hard to replace in the upcoming years.

 

[allblackraven]

Jefferson signed a 4 year contract. He’s on his second year. Wouldn’t be surprised if he gets cut sooner than that. Any way This whole argument was about the defense in the next 2-3 years and Jefferson won’t be on the roster in the next 3 years. The FO has their work cut out for them to draft well and spend smart to fix this defense.

That's a BS
They just need to stop fucking with where Jefferson actually lines up and what he plays, like they should with many other players on D. Then you'll get a better picture of what kind of talent this D has at its core. I seriously hope Wink stops that trend Pees was hooked on.

 

[Justdewinit20]

That's a BS
They just need to stop fucking with where Jefferson actually lines up and what he plays, like they should with many other players on D. Then you'll get a better picture of what kind of talent this D has at its core. I seriously hope Wink stops that trend Pees was hooked on.

Line him up in the box?
Jefferson won’t be on the team in 3 years lol so what core of players are you talking about?

 

[Sami84]

Tavon would have had over a year plus 2-3 months since his acl. He has no excuses IMO. He should be 100% healed by june with 3 months to get match fit.

 

[redrum52]

LMAO... nice @Sami84

 

[rossihunter2]

No it’s not. Compare the core you mentioned with the rest of the leagues “core” it doesn’t compare. Defense is going to be an issue going forward if the FO doesn’t address it. You’re saying you’d be confident going into a game in the next 2-3 years with
OLB-Judon, T Williams, Bowser
DT- B Williams(32 years old), W Henry, Chris Wormley
ILB- Mosley(if he resigns) Kenny Young, PO and a UDFA
CB-Humphrey, Young(after ACL tear), Averrett, Jaylen Hill,
S-Chuck Clark, DeShon Elliot

That’s a bottom 5 defense based on how they’ve played as of now.
This “core” needs a good edge, another DT, an outside CB, and possibly 2 safties. So it’s not a good core of players. Outside of B Williams, CJ Mosey, and Humphrey none of these players have seen significant playing time and have played well. And no CJ is not a top 5 LB. Give me Luke Kuechly, Lavonte David, Bobby Wagner, Deion Jones, Telvin Smith and Jordan Hicks. All guys that can cover at a high level. Even Reuben Foster when he was on the field was a better ILB. Roquan Smith hasn’t played a snap in the NFL and I’m sure he’s going to be a better ILB. That’s not an easy fix. FO has to draft well and spend smart in FA in the upcoming years.

Well this is clearly going nowhere because you still don’t seem to show comprehension of what “core” means

But with regards to CJ, Telvin Smith is in the same ball park but only Luke Kuechly and Bobby Wagner are ahead of him clearly in any given year... you could have argued that shazier was a similar standard but that ship has sailed and Reuben foster looked like he might enter that conversation but who knows whether he’ll continue to progress or even be in the league - no one else is in the same tier as those guys...

But clearly you’re just stubborn to the point of obfuscation with regards to certain players on this team

 

[Justdewinit20]

Well this is clearly going nowhere because you still don’t seem to show comprehension of what “core” means

But with regards to CJ, Telvin Smith is in the same ball park but only Luke Kuechly and Bobby Wagner are ahead of him clearly in any given year... you could have argued that shazier was a similar standard but that ship has sailed and Reuben foster looked like he might enter that conversation but who knows whether he’ll continue to progress or even be in the league - no one else is in the same tier as those guys...

But clearly you’re just stubborn to the point of obfuscation with regards to certain players on this team

I know what core means and no we don’t have a solid core going forward. You’re measurement of a “core” is completely off. A core for me would be a healthy Jimmy, a young Suggs and a young Weddle. That’s a core you can build around and be successful with as those three players can be the central part of your defense. Remove those players even at there age now. What are we left with? Not a good defense. Add in some more loses with decent players in the next 2-3 years with Pierce and Jefferson being a FAs. Not much left. CJ has always been a better LB than Shazier I don’t think the Steelers are ever going to live that down. You can mention pro bowls or all pros all you want but that’s not a solid measure of LB play as mostly stats are looked at. For example You can be the leading tackler in the NFL and that would make you an all-pro. Leading the NFL in tackles doesn’t make you a good player. I think you’re underestimating how good Deion Jones was this last season. Litterally a game changer at the LB spot.

 

[RavensMania]

You all are going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[RavensMania]

I know what core means and no we don’t have a solid core going forward. You’re measurement of a “core” is completely off. A core for me would be a healthy Jimmy, a young Suggs and a young Weddle. That’s a core you can build around and be successful with as those three players can be the central part of your defense. Remove those players even at there age now. What are we left with? Not a good defense. Add in some more loses with decent players in the next 2-3 years with Pierce and Jefferson being a FAs. Not much left. CJ has always been a better LB than Shazier I don’t think the Steelers are ever going to live that down. You can mention pro bowls or all pros all you want but that’s not a solid measure of LB play as mostly stats are looked at. For example You can be the leading tackler in the NFL and that would make you an all-pro. Leading the NFL in tackles doesn’t make you a good player. I think you’re underestimating how good Deion Jones was this last season. Litterally a game changer at the LB spot.

Btw, your measurement of jimmy, Young Suggs and young Weddle as being core is completely off base. They are or were elite players, not just core players. Sure, they can be part of your core, but not the only players within a core.

 

[Justdewinit20]

Btw, your measurement of jimmy, Young Suggs and young Weddle as being core is completely off base. They are or were elite players, not just core players. Sure, they can be part of your core, but not the only players within a core.

You would want to build your core with elite players not average or depth players imo. Just about every great defense has had elite core players specialfally elite CBs and elite pass rushers like Suggs and Jimmy. Really hard to have a great defense in today’s NFL without elite players at those positions.

Buillding a core with a run stuffing DT, an ILB, and with a corner who was solid his rookie season like most people have suggested just won’t do the job.

 

[jboy19]

The Ravens should try to have as many good players as possible imo

 

[Deebo813]

Tavon would have had over a year plus 2-3 months since his acl. He has no excuses IMO. He should be 100% healed by june with 3 months to get match fit.

Acl is more than just a physical injury though. That shit fucks with you mentally also.