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The Bad, The Ugly, and the Pathetic

Christian Schwarz said:
Yet again this says more about how good Kaep was and less about Jackson lol As soon as Kaep was thrust into a starting role similar to Lamar last year he won playoff games and nearly a super bowl and we all know damn well how close that got haha If Kaep was a finished product at the same point in his career than Lamar that's a franchises dream to have a game manager capable of making throws and winning in the playoffs. I'd say that's a pretty decent finished product at that point.

And my og point was that you tried to say Greg Roman never had a good QB before Lamar when he indeed had 2 decent enough QBs to make the playoffs one of which managed one of the most legendary performances by a QB in playoff history and nearly won a super bowl id say that is good enough
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People dont like kap here lol.. you might as well stop bringing him up
 
Christian Schwarz said:
Like I said in previous post I laughed when SF gave him a massive contract, of course I knew he was overrated and laughed during the post SB run hype when he became a star with all the ads and press surrounding him. But although Lamar is indeed better than Kaep talent wise, it's hard to argue with those post season performances. Kaep did decline after, got injured and had to endure the Chip Kelley explosion that completely flipped that franchise into rebuild mode. Kaep never saw a talented team like Jim Harbaughs were, just like we are clammering about a lack of play makers on a much improved team on offense compared to last year...Kaepernick never saw significant defenses or offensive playmakers later in his career and lost just as Chip Kelley went out the door too. The whole team burned down.

And you would be ignorant to think the "distraction factor" is not the main reason he is not in the league anymore at least as a backup role. A guy who made plays and in some cases single handedly propelled his team toward the super bowl, to have former players and teammates laugh and rant about how truly athletic and electric he was and still is during his career. Not a starter by any means but the fact that he is a very intriguing backup QB who can give your team a chance to win and still no one wants him purely screams PR stunt to me. It's no question his distraction is the reason he is out the league, hundreds of thousands of fans including in Baltimore boycotted the NFL during the kneeling controversy, drove NfL ratings down and is a big reason he is not in the league.

Personally I have always hated Kaep always knew he was overrated and more of an athletic game manager back up type rather than franchise QB, and HATED his kneeling nonsense. So this is non biased opinion...but you can't argue that Kaep is at the very least a solid game manager who looked even better with the right team around him.
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If he was in fact a great QB other teams would absolutely TRY him out. Because he isn't really a good qb, he infact isn't worth the attempt to sign him. No he doesn't have the postseason success yet, but has an excellent chance to have that success or even better than that. As you said Lamar is better than Kaep talent wise. That's pretty much what I was saying. Kaep still had good talent defensively in his entire career with the 9ers up until the Kelly hire. He was a solid game manager early in his career until defenses caught up to him and were able to stop his running. Because he was never an accurate passer over any of his years in the league, teams could stop him. Lamar has arm talent and will be able to get more consistent and better for a while as long as he continues to put in the work. He will continue to improve this year and into next year.

We as Ravens fans should be very excited about the future with Lamar at QB and if he can keep us competitive with less than a season under his belt, than that's all we can ask for. Now the defense needs to get its act together.
 
Ok so there are some ways The Ravens can improve their defense. 1) Getting Jimmy Smith back will obviously help 2) Sign a veteran inside linebacker that handle the Mike linebacker position which may mean signing Brandon Marshall, Josh Bynes , or Manti Teo. 3) Move Brandon Williams back to nose tackle when ever he healthy and possibly promote Zach Sieler or Trevon Coley to play the 3 tech to help keep Micheal Pierce fresh so he can be more effective getting after the quarterback. 4) someone has to step up and set the edge at outside linebacker outside of Mcphee and Judon. 5) just tackle better which isnt hard to correct
 
RavensMania said:
If he was in fact a great QB other teams would absolutely TRY him out. Because he isn't really a good qb, he infact isn't worth the attempt to sign him. No he doesn't have the postseason success yet, but has an excellent chance to have that success or even better than that. As you said Lamar is better than Kaep talent wise. That's pretty much what I was saying. Kaep still had good talent defensively in his entire career with the 9ers up until the Kelly hire. He was a solid game manager early in his career until defenses caught up to him and were able to stop his running. Because he was never an accurate passer over any of his years in the league, teams could stop him. Lamar has arm talent and will be able to get more consistent and better for a while as long as he continues to put in the work. He will continue to improve this year and into next year.

We as Ravens fans should be very excited about the future with Lamar at QB and if he can keep us competitive with less than a season under his belt, than that's all we can ask for. Now the defense needs to get its act together.
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Defense was horrible offense was not much better surrendering so many turnovers nearly 3 by Lamar himself although his fumbled handoff was recovered by us.

And similar to the chargers playoff game last year pretty mediocre stats by Lamar. He had opportunities to put us in front but other than a few flashy plays and a garbage time willie Snead score where Snead did all the work...Lamar had yet another subpar performance. Marquise Brown stunk, drops, horrible pass protection and mediocre play calling by Greg roman.

But through 2 weeks 2 losses minus the freebie Snead TD

Lamar- 300yds 2tds 2ints

Yes mark Ingrams 3tds slightly skew those stats but all in all Jackson has not been great and at the end of the day we are losing games.

Lot to be excited about but honestly the hype is big and has dulled since the dolphins game, makes you wonder why we kept pouring it on those poor phins. Like to see him have another solid performance finishing drives with Tds and just looking more comfortable out there.

I hate hearing the media and everyone bash this young humble kid, I support this guy 110% but he has to keep improving.
 
Christian Schwarz said:
Defense was horrible offense was not much better surrendering so many turnovers nearly 3 by Lamar himself although his fumbled handoff was recovered by us.

And similar to the chargers playoff game last year pretty mediocre stats by Lamar. He had opportunities to put us in front but other than a few flashy plays and a garbage time willie Snead score where Snead did all the work...Lamar had yet another subpar performance. Marquise Brown stunk, drops, horrible pass protection and mediocre play calling by Greg roman.

But through 2 weeks 2 losses minus the freebie Snead TD

Lamar- 300yds 2tds 2ints

Yes mark Ingrams 3tds slightly skew those stats but all in all Jackson has not been great and at the end of the day we are losing games.

Lot to be excited about but honestly the hype is big and has dulled since the dolphins game, makes you wonder why we kept pouring it on those poor phins. Like to see him have another solid performance finishing drives with Tds and just looking more comfortable out there.

I hate hearing the media and everyone bash this young humble kid, I support this guy 110% but he has to keep improving.
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agree, but Lamar's two interceptions came at the end of the game when we were out of it. One was a batted pass that he was desperately trying to throw under duress (good defensive play) and another was a jump ball that wasn't that far off. I don't have too many concerns with Lamar.

We could be talking differently if Chris Moore gets his feet in bounds and Ingram doesn't fumble that ball. Yes coulda woulda shoulda.

Now Lamar may have thrown two interceptions today, but they are the only two interceptions in a regular season game since last November. That's quite an accomplishment for a young QB, whom typically throw more interceptions.
 
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Deebo813 said:
People dont like kap here lol.. you might as well stop bringing him up
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Nor do I like him, only brought him up when someone tried to claim it's not fair to critique Greg Roman because "he has never worked with a good QB until lamar".

When you consider Kaepernicks early success when thrust into the starting lineup similar to Lamar's situation last year he was quite good, as opposed to Lamar who froze and put up one of the worst post season performances in NFL history even when paired with a capable offense and the number 1 overall defense.

Since he claims Kaepernick was not a good QB never a good QB idk what that says about Lamar right now. Lamar may very well be headed down a similar road of he does not continue to improve. Easy to love a guy throwing for 5 TDs to wide open receivers sll day, but at what point do we get scared when Lamar continues to struggle passing the ball in meaningful games?

2 straight meaningful games and 2 mediocre performances. Yes it's a team game but speaking solely on Lamar if he could not run he would be screwed. As in this game where rhe Browns dared him to do so by playing off rhe receivers, Lamar could not find any of them at all. He is lucky for the Snead garbage time score otherwise the media would crucify him, which they have been and still will this week for sure.
 
Ugh, on this day we even let Ricky Seals Jones cook us. Freaking Seals JONES. He was literally claimed off waivers on September 1st.
 
D1City55 said:
Ugh, on this day we even let Ricky Seals Jones cook us. Freaking Seals JONES. He was literally claimed off waivers on September 1st.
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yeah that killed me - reminded me of all those good dean pees defences where some no-name tight end would put up numbers on us on an almost weekly basis
 
Militant X 1 said:
I'm so done with that b.s. talk too man! Done!

In order for this D to change, we need QUALITY PLAYERS, not these BUMS I'm watching! To have "miscommunications" and piss poor tackling in one game, I can see. Perhaps, a second game, I'm getting pissed. But in 3 games in a row? I'm LIVID!!!

Our defense NEEDS quality, aggressive and hungry dawgs that take PRIDE in being a dominant defense! These BUMS don't have it! Humphrey was the only BEAST on the field today!
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I think the good news is... for the first time in seemingly forever, it doesn't feel like the offense needs much. Sure, would like maybe another weapon on the outside and some upgrades on the interior of the Oline, but they don't feel like high priorities at this point.

Next year you can essentially go all in on a defense that's already pretty young. Linebackers specifically... can sign or draft 2-3 of them, at least, both inside and outside.

But sadly... that doesn't help us this year. Its not what fans normally like to hear, but I never viewed this roster as a SB contending one this season anyway. Its like year 1 of a probably 2-3 year process to build a real special team. We've got some offensive talent that should continue to get better. Now we just need some more on defense, while trying to keep as much as we can.

I'm usually the guy who says don't overspend on players, but guys like Humphrey and Stanley can basically just pick how much they want to make and we should give it to them, and I wouldn't be opposed to ponying up for Judon or Pierce either. They're not world-beaters, but if you let them walk, what's really left? You're talking an almost entire overhaul of OLB, ILB, and DL.

Maybe next year is the year to transition off the "3-4" (which we hardly run anymore anyway), and start to target more interior pass rushers on the Dline. If we're going to go pretty much clean slate, all options should be open.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
I think the good news is... for the first time in seemingly forever, it doesn't feel like the offense needs much. Sure, would like maybe another weapon on the outside and some upgrades on the interior of the Oline, but they don't feel like high priorities at this point.

Next year you can essentially go all in on a defense that's already pretty young. Linebackers specifically... can sign or draft 2-3 of them, at least, both inside and outside.

But sadly... that doesn't help us this year. Its not what fans normally like to hear, but I never viewed this roster as a SB contending one this season anyway. Its like year 1 of a probably 2-3 year process to build a real special team. We've got some offensive talent that should continue to get better. Now we just need some more on defense, while trying to keep as much as we can.

I'm usually the guy who says don't overspend on players, but guys like Humphrey and Stanley can basically just pick how much they want to make and we should give it to them, and I wouldn't be opposed to ponying up for Judon or Pierce either. They're not world-beaters, but if you let them walk, what's really left? You're talking an almost entire overhaul of OLB, ILB, and DL.

Maybe next year is the year to transition off the "3-4" (which we hardly run anymore anyway), and start to target more interior pass rushers on the Dline. If we're going to go pretty much clean slate, all options should be open.
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i think the reason im worried is that it feels like if any of the defensive pieces had stepped up we could expend more capital on more offensive pieces next year and build a juggernaut - but now it feels like we almost have to go heavy on defence across the board and hope that the pieces we have on offence will continue to grow and develop and replace any talent we lose etc.
 
Let's talk about this game. Earl Thomas is not to blame here. He's a free safety and I agree he should cover the deep end and stop the long completions or the long gains, especially the Chubb TD but let's be real--Bowser totally fucked up there and let Chubb literally run right by him. I saw it in-game. That was honestly 100% on Bowser. Was one of the dumbest things I've seen today only second to Tony Jefferson, who literally showed zero instincts and awareness. Tony looks totally clueless and lost. Our defense is absolutely awful and it has nothing to do with Wink nor Thomas nor Marlon Humphrey. Hell, it has nothing to do with Jimmy Smith being out or Tavon. We have a MUCH larger issue than those players. We have clear communication issues on defense, POOR tackling on defense, and lack of awareness and instincts on defense. We have guys trying too hard to make a play or do X. The problem isn't coaching but it looks like player execution. I'm absolutely appalled by these players. We have coaching issues too but these players are either clueless or stupid or have no football IQ or all 3. I'm beyond frustrated by this defense. Steve has to be pissed.
 
Christian Schwarz said:
Nor do I like him, only brought him up when someone tried to claim it's not fair to critique Greg Roman because "he has never worked with a good QB until lamar".

When you consider Kaepernicks early success when thrust into the starting lineup similar to Lamar's situation last year he was quite good, as opposed to Lamar who froze and put up one of the worst post season performances in NFL history even when paired with a capable offense and the number 1 overall defense.

Since he claims Kaepernick was not a good QB never a good QB idk what that says about Lamar right now. Lamar may very well be headed down a similar road of he does not continue to improve. Easy to love a guy throwing for 5 TDs to wide open receivers sll day, but at what point do we get scared when Lamar continues to struggle passing the ball in meaningful games?

2 straight meaningful games and 2 mediocre performances. Yes it's a team game but speaking solely on Lamar if he could not run he would be screwed. As in this game where rhe Browns dared him to do so by playing off rhe receivers, Lamar could not find any of them at all. He is lucky for the Snead garbage time score otherwise the media would crucify him, which they have been and still will this week for sure.
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Sure, Lamar, presently, would be screwed if he couldn't run. But then again, so would pretty much the entire offense, since its totally built around everybody being able to run. Do you really think we run for 150 yards/game if we have a statue QB like Flacco back there, who is on the complete opposite end of the QB spectrum?

I can promise you this... with or without the late Snead TD, nobody is or was going to be crucifying Lamar this week. In fact, they wouldn't even be talking about him. Everybody will be talking about what they should be talking about... how an alleged vaunted defense gives up 500 yards in back to back weeks. We tried to write off last week as a road game against one of the best offenses this league has ever seen, but you can't write off this one... home game, divisional rival, and a team that was really struggling against everybody else to score points. They didn't struggle doing that today.

Frankly, this game was basically exactly what I saw in Carolina last year... it didn't matter what the offense did. Lamar could have played out of his mind today...we still take the L. We score more... they just score more. Browns left plenty of points on the board today, and if they had more possessions, they would have just kept scoring.

Last week... sure, maybe a better QB performance from a passing standpoint gets us with a chance to win. Today I saw nothing of the sort.

The irony is that this is ultimately the opposite of what fans expected. Fans thought teams would take away Lamar and the rest of the team's running ability and force him to throw. After two weeks, teams have started doing the opposite. They're literally looking at us and saying "we're fine with you running for 200 yards on us", which most fans would think is unheard of. And yet, it hasn't seemed to matter, because the idea behind a dominant running game is you need a complementary dominant defense, otherwise it simply doesn't work.

That's how you get to 2-2.
 
As for the offense, wow, this is so ridiculous as well. I don't know if it's Roman or Lamar but someone needs to figure out what they're doing. We don't seem to be involving our playmakers like we were when we did well. What happened to getting Brown involved? What's up with Andrews? How about you throw in Hurst and throw to him? I don't get how we are planning these games. I do not understand why we are not doing more PA passes. And then why are we letting the interior get literally blown up with penetration? There is way too much interior penetration and unchecked guys off the LOS when the ball is snapped, like FS Randall or the others who played against us. Way too many blitzes that get home to Jackson. As for Jackson, he needs to learn when to get rid of the ball when under duress because this OL isn't getting miraculously better. This looks like the status quo and we're through 4 games now. We're starting to form an identity & I have no idea WTF our identity is. Skura and Bozeman have their plays where they do well but I'm seeing too many dudes running free through the gaps to get to Lamar. That's not acceptable!

As for defense again because I forgot, we are blitzing too much to manufacture pressure and it is fucking killing us. I can't remember how many times I saw the QB (KC & CLE) throw the ball to a receiver whether WR, TE, or RB who was bookended by two other guys who would effectively lead block for the surrounded receiver and our guys cannot get through to penetrate and get the stop. This caused a lot of additional yards against us. This is working because we have ZERO pass rush beyond McPhee and these blitzes. That's why we needed to get a freaking pass rusher and not be cute with Williams and Bowser because these guys don't have it and don't seem to be able to do it. Bowser is dead to me after letting Chubb get that TD by not even touching him. Freaking moron!
 
Christian Schwarz said:
Nor do I like him, only brought him up when someone tried to claim it's not fair to critique Greg Roman because "he has never worked with a good QB until lamar".

When you consider Kaepernicks early success when thrust into the starting lineup similar to Lamar's situation last year he was quite good, as opposed to Lamar who froze and put up one of the worst post season performances in NFL history even when paired with a capable offense and the number 1 overall defense.

Since he claims Kaepernick was not a good QB never a good QB idk what that says about Lamar right now. Lamar may very well be headed down a similar road of he does not continue to improve. Easy to love a guy throwing for 5 TDs to wide open receivers sll day, but at what point do we get scared when Lamar continues to struggle passing the ball in meaningful games?

2 straight meaningful games and 2 mediocre performances. Yes it's a team game but speaking solely on Lamar if he could not run he would be screwed. As in this game where rhe Browns dared him to do so by playing off rhe receivers, Lamar could not find any of them at all. He is lucky for the Snead garbage time score otherwise the media would crucify him, which they have been and still will this week for sure.
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I didn't say you couldn't critique, Greg Roman. I never said that and if you interpreted it that way, well I'm sorry, but that's not what I meant. You can always critique someone or something. He's just always been more about the run game, but has never really had anyone that has had real good arm talent. That's what I was saying.
 
rossihunter2 said:
i think the reason im worried is that it feels like if any of the defensive pieces had stepped up we could expend more capital on more offensive pieces next year and build a juggernaut - but now it feels like we almost have to go heavy on defence across the board and hope that the pieces we have on offence will continue to grow and develop and replace any talent we lose etc.
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I mean, with as young as the offense is at the skill positions, what real choice do you have? With Lamar's skill sets, I don't think you're going to deviate from wanting to run the ball a lot for at least the foreseeable future. So maybe you use some mid or late round picks on development talent, but I don't think you start thinking about more toys until you see what like Boykin can grow and develop. Obviously we can't just do nothing, but I don't think investing big time draft or FA capital on a big time WR makes a lot of sense. Offensive line upgrades, especially on the interior, makes plenty of sense, but I also don't view it as a #1 priority.
 
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