JAAM
Hall of Famer
So damn sad. I really wanted him to be a Raven. It was so fun to watch him play. RIP
-
Welcome to PurpleFlock! Be sure to sign up here so that you can chat with your fellow Ravens fans.
Around the NFL: News and Rumors
- Thread starter RavensPunkXVX
- Start date
So damn sad. I really wanted him to be a Raven. It was so fun to watch him play. RIP
BoredMarine13
Ravens Ring of Honor
Woah , wonder what happened. Home woodsuites and no signs of struggle.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JO_75
Hall of Famer
In some good news today..... Ariel, the 5 year old girl injured in the crash caused by scum of the earth Britt Reid has woken up. He avoids murder charges and sentencing but hopefully based on his past he gets the book thrown at him. The Reid Family should be forced to pay all medical expenses and buy a new vehicle for the family to replace the one Britt totaled.
BoredMarine13
Ravens Ring of Honor
Hope he goes to a jail for a long time. Poor girl has a long way to go. Hopefully no residual brain damage
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
I was generally fine with it. This is the NFL, not College football. If he even attempted to "bully" black players in the NFL, good chance he'd simply get knocked out by one. Every single one of the players he'd be coaching is making more money than him, and its not like assistant coaches in the NFL have any real power over basically anything. Pro Players do the opposite of what they're told to do all the time and it never really amounts to anything.
Its really just a product of the "cancel culture" claiming victory once again.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Can't really say its for Watt at this point. They're still ~$13M over the cap after the restructure. You'll likely see them do similar things with other players, like ZaDarius.
Also likely they do an extension with Adams (in last year of his very underpaid deal) and will either restructure or extend Rodgers as well.
BoredMarine13
Ravens Ring of Honor
I don’t disagree on the cancel culture aspect. My problem is Meyer thinking this hire would work. We could argue right or wrong but that fact he pulled the trigger thinking he could handle the consequences was shocking to say the least. Seems pretty tone deaf to the current culture and makes me think the Jags are in for a a rough ride.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Well, a couple things for me...
1. Meyer tried to hire the guy because, by pretty much all accounts, he's an exceptional coach. Even the players accusing him of racism at Iowa, to a man, said he's exceptional at getting the max out of players in the strength program, and that they owed a lot to him in that aspect. So from a "quality of coach" aspect, this checked all the boxes.
2. I don't put it on Meyer to decide when the "current culture" is going to come around to something more reasonable. 5 years? 10 years? I don't know, and neither does anybody else. I would assume based on the arbitrary standards of the current "cancel culture" that cancellation is permanent, i.e. this guy can never coach anywhere again. Maybe he can get in at a local High School or some tiny college nobody has heard of. So I'm not putting it on Urban to decide whenever this "culture" is going to arbitrarily allow him to hire somebody that, again, from all accounts, is actually quite good at his job.
In terms of how well Urban will fit in the NFL, I never thought it'd be a great fit to begin with. Urban is a control freak. Always has been. Nick Saban won't work in the NFL because players make more than him, and if they don't want to listen, there's virtually nothing the coach can do about it. College football is a coaching and recruiting league. NFL football is about talent. Urban fits well in the former.
The ONLY good thing about Meyer in the NFL is that he's always played right up to the "edge", or crossed over it, in the desire to win. He recruited terrible human beings with off-field issues to play for him routinely. In the NFL, that doesn't matter, which is good for him.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Its a fascinating situation. They're in no position in the draft to take a QB or even move up to get one, nor do they have the cap space to be in the "trade" or acquisition market for somebody like Wentz or Watson or any of the other guys available.
IF they decided to move on from Ben, they'd likely be in like the Fitzpatrick market, which would be interesting.
I think in order for Ben to be back in 2021, he will have to lower his cap hit to under $30M at least, and it might need to be closer to $25M. That's an $11-16M decrease. Considering his actual comp for 2021 is scheduled to be $19M ($4M base salary with a $15M roster bonus, due 3/19) he would have to reduce that greatly. He would probably have to be willing to forego most or all of that roster bonus. That would be a pretty gigantic paycut that most QBs of his stature would never consider.
The only other way to do it is in the form of some sort of extension, and it doesn't seem likely that Pittsburgh is interested in that, given his performance. They could do the little "void year" thing, but you're just kicking the can down the road at that point.
It seems Ben is interested in reducing his comp to play another year, but I can't wait to see what that actually looks like. I think when QBs like him say that, it means "I'm amicable to a paycut", but the size of the paycut is usually much smaller than it seems.
Like all those years where Brady "took less" to stay with the Patriots... he still made decent cash every year. Made at least $15M in cash every year for the last four years, and hasn't made less than $12M a year in cash since 2009. Ben would legitimately have to play for under $10M in cash for this "plan" to work.
RaineV1
Ravens Ring of Honor
That great coach also sent several players to the hospital. And some of his tactics, like stepping on players hands, would probably just get him knocked out if he tried to treat an NFL player like that.
And honestly, let's say he is some strength coaching savant, is there that much of a difference between the top one and the rest of the pack? This is on the bottom end of the coaching staff, and you don't exactly see teams going out of their way to poach the best ones from each other or the college ranks. For Meyer to go out of his way to openly talk up about how he vetted the guy personally for this position just shows arrogance, and him believing he can do anything unquestioned.
In the end, Doyle could have admitted to what he did, admit it was wrong, try to show some remorse, and try to show that he's a different person. He hasn't. So, fuck him.
100% agree - people are so worried about this so-called "cancel culture" when really it's often used as a complaint by people with platforms that they're being unfairly criticised
completely ignoring the "oh, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions" of it - for people to get second chances they actually have to show contrition and demonstrate a willingness and ability to change
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
1. OK, so if he did those things in the Pros, and he got knocked out, what do you think would happen? He'd stop doing it, or he'd get fired.
2. No, there isn't much difference. But that's the point...cancel culture has decided that his position IS important. Otherwise, why would they care if he got hired at a low-level coaching position with an NFL team? He'll never be in the spotlight. He'll never even be seen on TV. They care because they want to care.
3. I do think he vetted him. I just don't think he cares as much about cancel culture as the public does. The public will try to pretend like its a lack of vetting... it rarely is. Its likely that Meyer knows more about this coaches background, transgressions, etc. than the public ever will. He's in the industry... the public isn't. It has literally nothing to do with vetting. It has to do with one person, Meyer, caring less about past transgressions, than the cancel culture does. That's all this was ever about.
Was it arrogance? Certainly. I don't think you can be a head coach in the NFL, or certainly in any real strong leadership position of any kind, without some level of arrogance. Its almost a requirement. And part of that arrogance and "unquestioned" aspect is driven by his employer, who not only courting Meyer for a long period of time and gave him seemingly "carte blanche" to hire his own staff, but also paid him a seemingly gigantic sum of money for an NFL head coach. He's almost certainly one of the highest, if not the highest, paid HCs in the NFL, and that's without any sort of NFL pedigree.
I don't really care if Doyle gets another job or not, nor do I deny he's likely a very shitty person. I just find it comical when the general public gangs up like a band of uneducated, twitter-infused, group of puppy dogs and cries foul everytime somebody in power does something they don't like.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Do they really though? Like who's established that standard? Like not even the US criminal justice system holds that standard.
In reality, the only person who should be determining whether he gets a second chance or not is the person who's entertaining offering him that chance. It shouldn't require the approval of millions of insignificant people creating a mob because they don't like it. Unfortunately, part of "cancel culture" is to try to force that.
RaineV1
Ravens Ring of Honor
To me getting a backlash from the general public when you act like that just sounds like the natural consequences of your own actions. Doyle, and people like him could easily avoid "cancel culture" by just not acting like that in the first place, or at least by showing that they know what they did was wrong.
And yeah, the general public should be skeptical of actions of those in power, especially when it rewards scummy people like this. In a democratic society that's not only a good thing, it's flat out necessary.
well clearly their approval does matter otherwise he wouldn't have left - but it's hard to call these people a mob when they're allowed to be upset about a hire... they didn't force him out because they have absolutely zero power in the building where he was hired
he wasn't "cancelled", he was criticised for his words and actions which people are allowed to do
"cancel culture" is a mostly artificial concept which people not used to being called out (because of the restriction of platforms pre-social-media to predominantly establishment only figures and views) decry when they are suddenly faced with criticism
exactly - and complaints about that sort of backlash from those who're being criticised often is coming from a place of privilege where they have this "elite" idea that they're somehow owed their platform is so completely lacking in self-awareness
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Well I think the natural "consequences" of what he did would be losing his job to begin with, which he did. He's no longer employed at Iowa. I think losing your job would certainly qualify as punishment.
That being said, "cancel culture" simply doesn't like that punishment. Its not that he got fired... its that his ostracism from the industry is the minimum possible consequence. Its that he can't work in anything related to football ever again, or at least, not at a level that would garner national recognition. I think an argument could be made that the punishment doesn't fit the crime in that instance.
I don't put much stock in the "contrition" aspect, because I think its meaningless. I think the general public lies about the fact that it matters, but in reality, they don't care. In the current landscape, if you make racially insensitive comments in a public setting, you're a racist. You're a racist today, tomorrow, a year from now, five years from now, 50 years from now. There is no changing that. People do change, but I generally don't feel that the general public, in this climate, is open to acknowledging that they do.
In this context, I'm not even sure how much "power" this person would have, given we both agree on the overall "low man on the totem pole" aspect of this particular job in this particular industry.
In reality, what the real item is that this guy is labeled as a racist, which he's seemingly earned, and the general public is not interested in a racist being employed in any sort of position that a) may pay better than most in the general public will make, which this certainly would and b) be in a position to garner any sort of national attention.
That's what "cancel culture" is. Its basically to reduce the impact a certain person can have on society, by forcing both justifiable and unjustifiable consequences on them.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Well, they sort of did. The mob is, after all, consumers. And consumers drive sponsorship and advertising decisions. FedEx managed to get the Redskins to change their name in similar fashion.
The long term play of this is that the Jaguars would have faced corporate sponsorship or advertising issues for hiring this guy. They just fired him before they got to that route.
Criticism is fine. Job termination is a different level of criticism. Ostracism from the industry because the general public doesn't want him employed there is above the level of just simple criticism.
"Cancel culture" from a criticism perspective is artificial, i.e. its existed forever and is only amplified by social media platforms. Cancel culture, in the form of blacklisting people from industries or jobs, because they seek to force more-than-reasonable consequences on people for actions that the general public simply doesn't like, isn't artificial.
but who says it's more than reasonable? why does a guy who's shown a pattern of poor behaviour deserve to make millions of dollars?
the fact of the matter is that being racist is frankly just unacceptable, as it should be - i dont get why it's seen as disproportionate for people to want him not hired...
it's not about him forever being ostracised but he's done nothing in the period between being outed as a racist and getting hired in a new job that would suggest he's made any sort of personal growth that would indicate he's going to be different in his new job...
and it should be on him to prove that he's changed and that naturally would take some time...