The General Offensive Line Thread

[JoeyFlex5]

I'm glad we didn't get cy kwon djo. I watched him his whole career at Alabama, that's when I followed them heavy(before my weekends were spoken for) and he is a bum. Seriously he's a poor mans Michael oher, emphasis on the poor.

I expect cam Robinson to be vastly superior, and as a TACKLE, and I don't even see cam as a tackle. Kuandjio is bad.

I honestly would take James hurst over him. Assuming we're talking the *relatively*solid James hurst and not the one that faced the raiders

 

[BloodRaven]

We were never in the running for Cyrus I was throwing names around, yeah he was a bum looking prospect but he gave up one sack last season. Hurst has been so bad that PFF said his pass blocking efficiency is the worst theyve ever recorded from a starting LT, and three years in a row there have been articles dedicated to how bad hes playing.

 

[Adreme]

I to greatly dislike Hurst at RT (though i havnt seen him play yet so I reserve the right to change my mind), but tgere are worse things for a line then a bad RT.

However, i am completely fine with options at center. I am pretty sure continuity was the only reason Jensen didn't replace Zuttah during the season.

 

[allblackraven]

It's just infuriating to me that our biggest need going into the offseason is clearly the offensive line and yet we do NOTHING about it. Seriously, Ozzie is seriously gambling on his ego here because we have nothing going for us other than Stanley/Yanda.

Jensen isn't a definitive upgrade over Zuttah. Zuttah had his moments of pure shit last year, but was overall a very AVERAGE offensive lineman. I have 0 faith in Jensen given that his issue is clearly footwork and leverage. Him adding weight isn't going to really help out too much.

Lewis is being played out of position. He honestly wasn't that great at guard last year, especially as a run blocker. He was a good pass blocker, but is honestly better suited to play RT. Harbaugh continues his streak of horribly misusing our talent.

Urschel, although a good backup, continues to show that he gives more of a damn about his academia than football. Ironic considering that as a math major he should know which job pays CONSIDERABLY higher and is of higher importance.

Nico Siragusa is a guy I like going forward, but once again Harbaugh decides to fuck up and play Lewis, who is not a good guard, at the guard spot rather than the natural LG in Siragusa. Will likely be moved to center once we realize that Jensen straight up isn't that good.

Elumenor? LOL. Unproven and all athletic ability.

Hurst? Terrible. Why haven't we gotten rid of him yet? If I was a GM this would be my first order of business. He's seriously bogged down the entire offensive line whenever he's played.

Wesley, Nembot, and Skura are all so unproven and likely have little upside.

So I'll ask. What the fuck is Ozzie doing? He does realize that the precious $120 million QB needs both protection and a running game to thrive right? I know adding Roman should do a lot for the run game, but even then most of our problems were not scheme related.

We picked Brandon Williams over a good RT because of a scheme issue(btw. Roman plays zone A LOT too). Even if Wagner wasn't a true scheme fit we could have compensated, and have gotten Bennie Logan for a lot cheaper, and have maybe been in the running for a quality offensive lineman.

RIP Flacco. Seriously. If he gets hurt, Ozzie needs to be fired ASAP.

In a shit rookie class and even shitier FA, what was he supposed to do?

 

[Oldfaithful]

In a shit rookie class and even shitier FA, what was he supposed to do?

He could have let Williams go, sign a guy like Bennie Logan and have signed Larry Warford? Actually have traded back to take Forest Lamp, who was actually a very good prospect? Or have traded up to draft Pat elfien to play C? Or have picked Wagner over Williams despite the scheme(even though Roman does a lot of zone).

Yes it was a shitty oline class overall. But there were SOME good prospects(I'm happy we got one in Goose. But still). There were some options in free agency at the guard spot and you could have still drafted Goose and put him at center.

We could've done something and we didn't. If Flacco gets hurt, this little two year plan Ozzie has going fails miserably.

Usually Ozzie great at seeing big picture but this is a massive flaw in his plan.

Oh who are we kidding. We all know he'll draft another Alabama defensive player in the first round again next year regardless of where we pick(could be good or bad. I think the most recent two we drafted should be good) and continue to neglect Joe.

Just smh

 

[Adreme]

You act like having a weak RT is some catastrophe. The Ravens have 2 excellent Oline players and Lewis who i would classify as good as he was getting better pre injury. Lastly Jensen who the team clearly sees as an upgrade over Zuttah. So 3 positions getting better and the least important getting worse is hardly a catastrophe

 

[Oldfaithful]

You act like having a weak RT is some catastrophe. The Ravens have 2 excellent Oline players and Lewis who i would classify as good as he was getting better pre injury. Lastly Jensen who the team clearly sees as an upgrade over Zuttah. So 3 positions getting better and the least important getting worse is hardly a catastrophe

You're right. Having your worst oline man being the RT isn't the end of the world.


Unless his name is Jame Hurst who seriously doesn't deserve to be on the team at all. I'd be more confident in Wesley, whom I haven't seen at all, or Nembot, who is so raw that ahi tuna is jealous

 

[RavensMania]

He could have let Williams go, sign a guy like Bennie Logan and have signed Larry Warford? Actually have traded back to take Forest Lamp, who was actually a very good prospect? Or have traded up to draft Pat elfien to play C? Or have picked Wagner over Williams despite the scheme(even though Roman does a lot of zone).

Yes it was a shitty oline class overall. But there were SOME good prospects(I'm happy we got one in Goose. But still). There were some options in free agency at the guard spot and you could have still drafted Goose and put him at center.

We could've done something and we didn't. If Flacco gets hurt, this little two year plan Ozzie has going fails miserably.

Usually Ozzie great at seeing big picture but this is a massive flaw in his plan.

Oh who are we kidding. We all know he'll draft another Alabama defensive player in the first round again next year regardless of where we pick(could be good or bad. I think the most recent two we drafted should be good) and continue to neglect Joe.

Just smh

Glad we don't have the fans running this team....just sayin

 

[Oldfaithful]

Glad we don't have the fans running this team....just sayin

While I agree with one of my catchphrases on this matter this flaw is so blatantly obvious and has been from the beggining that I'm pissed that other than adding Goose we've done nothing to adress. Makes we wonder if Ozzie is just being cocky. Outside of three players(one in which we will misuse horribly) I have 0 faith in the oline

 

[RavensMania]

While I agree with one of my catchphrases on this matter this flaw is so blatantly obvious and has been from the beggining that I'm pissed that other than adding Goose we've done nothing to adress. Makes we wonder if Ozzie is just being cocky. Outside of three players(one in which we will misuse horribly) I have 0 faith in the oline

As I've said before, I'd prefer Alex Lews, year two at Guard than any of the rookies and I'm a fan of Goose. Lewis is a pretty good pass blocker, it's the run blocking that needs a some improvement and I'd be willing to bet that it would improve from year one to year two, which is generally has the most growth for players in the NFL, at any position.

There was a time when Ozzie didn't draft a RT and Wagner was on the bench. All the fans were in an uproar because we didn't solve it through free agency, until they saw how Wagner played in 2014.

I don't know how many times I've seen this in the NFL and I'm pretty sure we will see this time and time again. I have a lot of confidence in Jensen replacing Zuttah. We can deal with Hurst, especially if he plays close to the last two weeks of the year, which was pretty darn good.

 

[allblackraven]

He could have let Williams go, sign a guy like Bennie Logan and have signed Larry Warford? Actually have traded back to take Forest Lamp, who was actually a very good prospect? Or have traded up to draft Pat elfien to play C? Or have picked Wagner over Williams despite the scheme(even though Roman does a lot of zone).

Yes it was a shitty oline class overall. But there were SOME good prospects(I'm happy we got one in Goose. But still). There were some options in free agency at the guard spot and you could have still drafted Goose and put him at center.

We could've done something and we didn't. If Flacco gets hurt, this little two year plan Ozzie has going fails miserably.

Usually Ozzie great at seeing big picture but this is a massive flaw in his plan.

Oh who are we kidding. We all know he'll draft another Alabama defensive player in the first round again next year regardless of where we pick(could be good or bad. I think the most recent two we drafted should be good) and continue to neglect Joe.

Just smh

So, what would you ask Ozzie if he traded back, left Humphrey on the board and took Lamp now that Young got hurt and we're again just one CB injury away from another lost season because of secondary depth or a lack thereof. At least we have enough bodies on the OL to try and make something work and maybe we bring some more help later.

 

[RavensMania]

He could have let Williams go, sign a guy like Bennie Logan and have signed Larry Warford? Actually have traded back to take Forest Lamp, who was actually a very good prospect? Or have traded up to draft Pat elfien to play C? Or have picked Wagner over Williams despite the scheme(even though Roman does a lot of zone).

Yes it was a shitty oline class overall. But there were SOME good prospects(I'm happy we got one in Goose. But still). There were some options in free agency at the guard spot and you could have still drafted Goose and put him at center.

We could've done something and we didn't. If Flacco gets hurt, this little two year plan Ozzie has going fails miserably.

Usually Ozzie great at seeing big picture but this is a massive flaw in his plan.

Oh who are we kidding. We all know he'll draft another Alabama defensive player in the first round again next year regardless of where we pick(could be good or bad. I think the most recent two we drafted should be good) and continue to neglect Joe.

Just smh

I'm sorry, but this is just a stupid comment and you've said it before. Ozzie doesn't just draft a player because he comes from Alabama....smh

 

[The Raven]

While I agree with one of my catchphrases on this matter this flaw is so blatantly obvious and has been from the beggining that I'm pissed that other than adding Goose we've done nothing to adress. Makes we wonder if Ozzie is just being cocky. Outside of three players(one in which we will misuse horribly) I have 0 faith in the oline

I think Ozzie is gambling on the players benefitting from a scheme change. It's been said a few times that the scheme this year is more "down hill" blocking. That's a benefit to our guys. Pass protection really wasn't horrible last year. Legit. 32 sacks allowed -- 13th best in the league. Run blocking was the problem and we are better across the board there if we go with the lineup we all know we're going to end up with in September. I know it looks bad now because Lewis is still at LG but I guarantee he'll be at RT by the end of the preseason.

I'm sorry, but this is just a stupid comment and you've said it before. Ozzie doesn't just draft a player because he comes from Alabama....smh

Things I love about the new board: even the mods can call a comment stupid.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I agree with the notion that we have fretted constantly about a spot that appears weak only to have a young guy come in and surprise everyone, like Wagner did in 2014.

I wouldn't be surprised Much if James hurst actually clicked this year and became relatively serviceable as a RT, or Wesley or nembot. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Jensen turned out to be a hell of a center. We just don't roll with total unknowns unless the coaches have reasonable optimism about a guy and we've seen this same story play out a million times

 

[Oldfaithful]

I'm sorry, but this is just a stupid comment and you've said it before. Ozzie doesn't just draft a player because he comes from Alabama....smh

It's a half joke half truth. It just seems like every two years we have drafted a player from Bama and only one of them has turned out to be good.
2010: Terrence Cody. Really sucked.
2012: Courtney Upshaw. Made a splash play in our SB. Wasn't terrible but super one dimensional. Not worth a second round pick
2014: CJ Mosley. Beast. Most important player in the front seven
We skip 2016, so
2017: Humphrey and Williams to make up for not drafting one in 2016. TBD, but it would not shock me if Williams is the better of the two. In fact I'd say it's very likely.

But in 7 years, that's 5 early selections on Alabama players. And only one has turned out to be good so far. It's obviously not the sole reason he drafts them, but bias clearly has to play a role.

"But he has the best intel from Bama". Then why did Cody straight up bust, and why did we think that Upshaw would be a key player?

Just saying. Bias clearly has to play some kind of a role

 

[Adreme]

So in 7 years in the first 3 rounds you say that 5 bama players (2 drafted this year) is somehow telling when Bama is consistently churning out pros in the top 3 rounds every year?

Also be fair he is 1 for 3. Its disingenuous to cite all 5 when 2 havnt seen the field yet. When 50-50 is the mark of a good drafter im not overly worried about it.

 

[Oldfaithful]

So, what would you ask Ozzie if he traded back, left Humphrey on the board and took Lamp now that Young got hurt and we're again just one CB injury away from another lost season because of secondary depth or a lack thereof. At least we have enough bodies on the OL to try and make something work and maybe we bring some more help later.

You really want to play the hindsight game? You're assuming then that Humphrey was the only corner on our board(he probably wasn't), and every other pick would have remained the same. Truth be told, if we had traded back, given how deep this cornerback class is I would not be surprised if we had drafted one in rounds two or three. It was clearly a massive priority to clean up the secondary so there would be no doubts at all as to what we would have done.


Given how the draft panned out here's one of several possible scenarios had we taken the niners trade(trade back for a second, third, and fourth)

Round 2: Forrest Lamp
Round 2: Tyus Bowser
Round 3: Fabian Moreau(is worth the risk here easily)
Round 3: Chris Wormley
Round 3: Tim WIlliams
Round 4: Carl Lawson
Round 4: Nico Siragusa
Round 5: Jermaine Elumenor
Round 6: Chuck Clark

Boom. Find yourself your starting center for the future in Lamp, get yourself a corner that although he's not as good as Humphrey has a pretty good ceiling himself and would fit into this defense, another pass rusher in Lawson(I mean, you can never have too many), while keeping the rest of your picks relatively the same. Oh, and the rest of the draft remains the same. But you have to make a lot of assumptions. One pick different could change the thought process of the entire draft.

So your statement is completely baseless. If we had traded back and taken Lamp there's little doubt in my mind that we would have taken another corner early on with all the extra picks we would have acquired.

But who knows?

 

[Oldfaithful]

As I've said before, I'd prefer Alex Lews, year two at Guard than any of the rookies and I'm a fan of Goose. Lewis is a pretty good pass blocker, it's the run blocking that needs a some improvement and I'd be willing to bet that it would improve from year one to year two, which is generally has the most growth for players in the NFL, at any position.

There was a time when Ozzie didn't draft a RT and Wagner was on the bench. All the fans were in an uproar because we didn't solve it through free agency, until they saw how Wagner played in 2014.

I don't know how many times I've seen this in the NFL and I'm pretty sure we will see this time and time again. I have a lot of confidence in Jensen replacing Zuttah. We can deal with Hurst, especially if he plays close to the last two weeks of the year, which was pretty darn good.

I don't. Lewis' isssues in the run game are in big part due to leverage. He's too damn tall lol. He is a good pass blocker, undeniably so, but I think we are misusing his talents.

And yes, I was one of those who was worried about Wagner. Ask -Truth-. But once I became more educated about schemes(thanks to -Truth-) it made sense as to why he succeeded. We, on the other hand are playing a guy who could/should thrive at RT and are putting him at guard for some reason.

I think Ozzie is gambling on the players benefitting from a scheme change. It's been said a few times that the scheme this year is more "down hill" blocking. That's a benefit to our guys. Pass protection really wasn't horrible last year. Legit. 32 sacks allowed -- 13th best in the league. Run blocking was the problem and we are better across the board there if we go with the lineup we all know we're going to end up with in September. I know it looks bad now because Lewis is still at LG but I guarantee he'll be at RT by the end of the preseason.

Things I love about the new board: even the mods can call a comment stupid.

I won't hold it against. Mania. Most of y'all are good dudes(RavensMania being a great dude) and this discussion is very productive. If he calls my comment stupid, I can easily call him overly-optimistic

Beside the point, Jensen was a solid pass blocker last season as well. Truth be told, big reason I'm worried for Joe is Hurst. Who even though he has improved is still a below average tackle in all facets of the game. I have 0 doubts about this one. When you have a player as a atrocious as he's been, even if he has gotten better, that's enough to screw up the rest of the line. Remember O'Neil Cousins? This guy is very similar.

That said, Jensen and Lewis were bad run blockers last season as broken down by Truth. And the only one I could actually see getting any better at this facet(at least at their current position) is Jensen. But even then his issues are largely footwork based which isn't that easily coachable sadly. Makes me very worried, especially with us hiring Roman and how predicated our offense has historically been around the run(Kubiak was really Flacco's perfect prince as an OC). Lewis I'd have FAR more confidence in as a RT. he's already proven that he's a good pass blocker, and I think he'd have an easier time with the smaller rushers on the edges.

TLDR: Fuck James Hurst. I'm hoping for the best, but we should really prepare for the worst.

 

[allblackraven]

You really want to play the hindsight game? You're assuming then that Humphrey was the only corner on our board(he probably wasn't), and every other pick would have remained the same. Truth be told, if we had traded back, given how deep this cornerback class is I would not be surprised if we had drafted one in rounds two or three. It was clearly a massive priority to clean up the secondary so there would be no doubts at all as to what we would have done.


Given how the draft panned out here's one of several possible scenarios had we taken the niners trade(trade back for a second, third, and fourth)

Round 2: Forrest Lamp
Round 2: Tyus Bowser
Round 3: Fabian Moreau(is worth the risk here easily)
Round 3: Chris Wormley
Round 3: Tim WIlliams
Round 4: Carl Lawson
Round 4: Nico Siragusa
Round 5: Jermaine Elumenor
Round 6: Chuck Clark

Boom. Find yourself your starting center for the future in Lamp, get yourself a corner that although he's not as good as Humphrey has a pretty good ceiling himself and would fit into this defense, another pass rusher in Lawson(I mean, you can never have too many), while keeping the rest of your picks relatively the same. Oh, and the rest of the draft remains the same. But you have to make a lot of assumptions. One pick different could change the thought process of the entire draft.

So your statement is completely baseless. If we had traded back and taken Lamp there's little doubt in my mind that we would have taken another corner early on with all the extra picks we would have acquired.

But who knows?

You are doing exactly the same thing with Lamp - how is he a better bet to be our starting center than say Jensen? It's not a hindsight game - the fact is that Ozzie would be absolutely crucified if he left secondary, including 1st round CB, unanswered again after the nightmare of last few seasons. It's not like he totally neglected the OL - we spent 1, 3, 4 and 5 on linemen in last 2 drafts.

You can't fix everything in one offseason but I like the way it worked out better than the alternative - take the elite prospect every time rather than 2 OK guys that may or may not work out.

 

[Oldfaithful]

You are doing exactly the same thing with Lamp - how is he a better bet to be our starting center than say Jensen? It's not a hindsight game - the fact is that Ozzie would be absolutely crucified if he left secondary, including 1st round CB, unanswered again after the nightmare of last few seasons. It's not like he totally neglected the OL - we spent 1, 3, 4 and 5 on linemen in last 2 drafts.

You can't fix everything in one offseason but I like the way it worked out better than the alternative - take the elite prospect every time rather than 2 OK guys that may or may not work out.

A 1, 2 4th rounders and a 5th(also yay we've addressed our oline with mostly a plethora of mid round picks. Good job Ozzie). But that's besides the point. Again given how hard we Addressed the secondary it's safe to assume that we would have selected a defensive back at some point, likely early on

And fwiw. Humphrey likely isn't an elite prospect. A very good one, I like him, he fits our defense like a glove. But I could easily see Lamp turining into an all pro at any position on The interior. Can't say the same for Marlon, who at best is probably an above average player. Lamp is a potential all pro and would be the first guard selected in several drafts. He might not be an all pro right away like a Zack Martin, but a good player nonetheless.

I'm sorry. The secondary is important but when you give me the chance to select between the secondary and the offensive line I'm taking the line every time as a priority.

Sure, you take the elite player every time. But Marlon isn't one at all.

But that's just me. I'm pissed with Ozzie. I like the idea of this two year plan, but we should have done more to fix the line. Relying on in house talent mostly made up of midrounders and UDFAs is incredibly risky. Sure, you need to take risks, but it's one that could single handedly hold the entire offense back, whether it's Hurst being Hurst and Flacco is put on his back, or whether we can't get get a running game going because the line is pathetic.

If I'm wrong(which I hope I am) I'll eat my words while smoking a nice cigar and eating a ribeye and do so happily. But with Hurst there, I don't think I'm wrong.