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Signings, Cuts, Trades

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
lol I think setting the bar at "beat the Chiefs" is kind of dumb. Lets start with like beat the Bengals. Or something that involves winning like an actual playoff game first. We haven't earned the right to even have a conversation about the Chiefs.

If I want to beat the Chiefs, we have better weapons than them today. No Hopkins. No draft. Mahomes doesn't have a single receiver on his roster that's better than Bateman or OBJ. And we have a TE who's at least close to his level.

We've got the offense to beat the Chiefs today. You need people to be on the field. What we don't have today is anything close to a defense that's going to beat the Chiefs.
Yeah and there’s this thing called the draft where there is a strong cb class that can help us with that, but you’re being hyperbolic saying to draft a bunch of wrs.

If you want us to add to the defense to stop the chiefs, bengals, or bills, then what defensive star player do you see openly on the trade block that we could make a move for? Idk about that one, but I do see deandre hopkins on the trade block and a draft class ripe for us to improve our defense which, as you said, needs players.

I think I’ve entertained this long enough, it’s very clear that you’re being deliberately obtuse and hyperbolic and you’re not interested in talking about anything real.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Well especially when you consider that you effectively already have three quality WRs on the roster, in Bateman, OBJ and Andrews. I'm fine adding another, and think we should prioritize doing so. I'm just not interested in it being an expensive veteran who costs draft pick or picks and has similar durability concerns to the WRs already on the roster (and the QB for that matter).

We can talk all day about what the arbitrary quantity of receivers a $50M QB needs in order to be "bailed out" or whatever the hell that means. I know Josh Allen doesn't have three quality WRs on his team, I don't see frankly when he ever did, and I sure as shit know Mahomes didn't last year when he won the SB. He had Juju, who is the textbook definition of mediocre, Kelce, and whoever the hell stepped up week to week.

Hell I look at teams like SF and Philly, and I see two quality receivers and a really good TE. I see limited or non-existent depth. Somehow they managed to get it done, mostly through better health and coaching.
When we have pat mahomes and Andy Reid we can start talking about not needing weapons to compete with pat mahomes and Andy Reid
 

gtalk12

Ravens Ring of Honor
There is alot riding on OBJ and Bateman to be AVAILABLE for the year.

Say what you want about Hopkins but he has played in more games than both of those guys. Mind you he was suspended last year and hurt the year before and still played in more games than Bateman
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
When we have pat mahomes and Andy Reid we can start talking about not needing weapons to compete with pat mahomes and Andy Reid
when we get in a position to actually play the Chiefs in a meaningful game, then we can have discussions about whether we have the weapons to beat them or not.
I do know the Chiefs aren't the only team in this conference who can score lots of points.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Yeah and there’s this thing called the draft where there is a strong cb class that can help us with that, but you’re being hyperbolic saying to draft a bunch of wrs.

If you want us to add to the defense to stop the chiefs, bengals, or bills, then what defensive star player do you see openly on the trade block that we could make a move for? Idk about that one, but I do see deandre hopkins on the trade block and a draft class ripe for us to improve our defense which, as you said, needs players.

I think I’ve entertained this long enough, it’s very clear that you’re being deliberately obtuse and hyperbolic and you’re not interested in talking about anything real.
Nobody. Why would I trade for a defensive player when I can use draft picks to obtain them? Or sign them in FA?
What happens to my quantity of draft picks and the quantity of salary cap space when I trade for Hopkins? Does it increase, decrease, or stay the same?
 

RaineV1

Ravens Ring of Honor
For me, Hopkins or a WR at 22 is still on the table because I don't think Odell solves anything much at WR. I'm not confident that he puts up 400 yards and 3 TDs before the inevitable injury. If I was gambling I'd say he goes under that.

(I'm prepared to be mocked for this, but please, don't jump the gun when he has 300 yards and 2 TDs in early October - I'm half expecting that too - I just don't think the good times will last very long.)
I somewhat agree. I think Odell will have a good year, but he's on a one year contract. He's still a temporary band-aid right now.
 

BoredMarine13

Ravens Ring of Honor
I somewhat agree. I think Odell will have a good year, but he's on a one year contract. He's still a temporary band-aid right now.
I think we structured it we’re it’s basically two years
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
So we trading for them instead? This whole back and forth has me confused...
No. We're giving our $50M QB who hasn't been on the field in December for two years at least 4 high quality targets (more than most high end QBs get in this league) to "bail him out", and a new OC, to overcompensate for the fact that we didn't have good receivers or a good OC last year.
 

redrum52

Hall of Famer
No. We're giving our $50M QB who hasn't been on the field in December for two years at least 4 high quality targets (more than most high end QBs get in this league) to "bail him out", and a new OC, to overcompensate for the fact that we didn't have good receivers or a good OC last year.
I don't see the problem.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
I don't see the problem.
The problem is the high-end targets aren't coming from the draft, which means they're not guaranteed to be here long, more expensive, and they don't actually grow with the team (if the franchise QB is staying). Trading for Hopkins doesn't mean either he or OBJ is here next year, meaning you could be in an identical spot in 10 months.
And if Lamar isn't on the field in December, none of this matters.
I'd rather give him an OBJ and a draft pick, to go along with the first rounder, the all-World TE, the respectable Oline, and a running game, that he already has, and actually force your $50M QB to play like one for a whole season.

The most amusing thing to me is that everybody focuses on "well you gotta get proven players". No you don't. There's no one-size-fits-all approach to building a WR core. People will say AJ Brown. And then i'll say Devonta Smith. People will say OBJ in LA, and then I'll say Cooper Kupp. Funny how that works. The Bills have Diggs and nobody else, which is why they're going to be scrambling in this draft to add playmakers outside. And the Bengals literally drafted ALL of their guys. The Steelers, who have good WRs every year, draft their guys.

This whole "lets be terrified of drafting receivers" nonsense makes no sense. Draft more of them, not less. Stop taking Patrick Queen's in the first round. People out here bitching about Proche not getting playing time, and now we're advocating to effectively bury Bateman as the #4 pass catcher on the depth chart. On what fucking planet is he going to be useful in an offense that has 0% chance of being close to balanced and having 4 pass catchers getting fed? The only way that works is if we're running the Jameis Winston Buccaneers offense, in which case its a wrap, because we ain't winning anything.
 
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redrum52

Hall of Famer
Let me stop fucking around. This is also why I said waiting this long was dumb. Say we provide Lamar with all these weapons and he looks like complete ass, now we're stuck with him knowing he couldn't even produce with a great supporting cast. I doubt that happens but who knows.
 

Simba

Staff Member
Moderator
Let me stop fucking around. This is also why I said waiting this long was dumb. Say we provide Lamar with all these weapons and he looks like complete ass, now we're stuck with him knowing he couldn't even produce with a great supporting cast. I doubt that happens but who knows.
It's so hard because they made the effort from 2019 on by investing premium draft picks and trying to supplement with solid veterans in the middle of the depth chart. But when those guys got hurt/faltered, those solid guys couldn't step up. So they went back to the well in 2021 with Bateman and now he's been perpetually injured. And then you think you're going into 2022 with a good group and then Hollywood gets traded. Last year was completely inexcusable at the WR position, but they made a pretty competitive effort from 2019-2021.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Let me stop fucking around. This is also why I said waiting this long was dumb. Say we provide Lamar with all these weapons and he looks like complete ass, now we're stuck with him knowing he couldn't even produce with a great supporting cast. I doubt that happens but who knows.
I will concede that it does make some sense to overcompensated IF the objective is to use it as leverage to get Lamar to sign our deal. Because if he does, you don't have to be married to the veterans, and we could easily tell them to fuck off next year, and build the roster more for the long term, regardless of whether Lamar likes it or not.

I'm still 50/50 on whether Lamar will even consider signing our deal even if we do land Hopkins.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
It's so hard because they made the effort from 2019 on by investing premium draft picks and trying to supplement with solid veterans in the middle of the depth chart. But when those guys got hurt/faltered, those solid guys couldn't step up. So they went back to the well in 2021 with Bateman and now he's been perpetually injured. And then you think you're going into 2022 with a good group and then Hollywood gets traded. Last year was completely inexcusable at the WR position, but they made a pretty competitive effort from 2019-2021.
Except the competitive effort resulted in draft picks that didn't pan out. And in true "fan fashion", when something doesn't work, swing wildly the other way, and say that it will never work.

People completely and totally whiff on this notion that as WRs become more valued, it becomes that much more critical to draft them well and draft them frequently. They think "well just trade a bunch of stuff and pay a bunch of $ for a guy and it'll solve all your problems". Hasn't solved any of the Bills problems, because they've been unable or unwilling to develop other WRs around Diggs. And it shows with a pretty limited offense that is more dependent on their QB making plays than even the Ravens offense is.
 

redrum52

Hall of Famer
It's so hard because they made the effort from 2019 on by investing premium draft picks and trying to supplement with solid veterans in the middle of the depth chart. But when those guys got hurt/faltered, those solid guys couldn't step up. So they went back to the well in 2021 with Bateman and now he's been perpetually injured. And then you think you're going into 2022 with a good group and then Hollywood gets traded. Last year was completely inexcusable at the WR position, but they made a pretty competitive effort from 2019-2021.
I'll give them a small pass for 2021 but not hearing ot for last year. Seeing how poorly 2021 went and KNOWING Bateman was the only quality guy was inexcusable to me. Also, keeping Roman at least 1 year too many without seeing Lamar in another system. Besides me thinking the team had outgrown him we never got a chance to see Lamar in a semi capable passing scheme before having to give him top QB money.


RIP Jerry Springer
 
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